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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: CenTexZebra on October 19, 2014, 02:01:28 PM
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http://www.gosanangelo.com/sports/high-school/officials-shortage-critical-in-west-texas_70989789 (http://www.gosanangelo.com/sports/high-school/officials-shortage-critical-in-west-texas_70989789)
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Although not as severe as the shortage in West Texas, we are having similar issues in Sacramento. This Friday night we have more games than officials. Some of the low level games are going to only get 4 man crews.
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East Texas much the same, even more severe on Thursday for sub varsity
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We are starting to see problems in San Antonio. We really are struggling to cover sub varsity games. Seems like the coaches are getting worse as well. This is going to be an interesting avocation in a few years. Maybe they start getting dads to call ms games. I'd pay to see that.
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We are starting to see problems in San Antonio. We really are struggling to cover sub varsity games. Seems like the coaches are getting worse as well. This is going to be an interesting avocation in a few years. Maybe they start getting dads to call ms games. I'd pay to see that.
We had some of our districts that used to play Games A, B, and C at one location, but now they decided to play Games A and B at one site and then game C at the other. We'd knock out the triple header with 1 crew, but now we have to come up with 2 crews to cover both sites.
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We had some of our districts that used to play Games A, B, and C at one location, but now they decided to play Games A and B at one site and then game C at the other. We'd knock out the triple header with 1 crew, but now we have to come up with 2 crews to cover both sites.
We had some schools at one time run all three at one site and it helped. But they are doing the same here and splitting them up. It does not help for sub varsity coverage when they split sites. We have a Friday coming up where we are short and had another already. Some schools trying running Saturday morning but a lot of guys don't want to get up and do that after they have worked a Friday night late.
Good article thanks for sharing CenTex.
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Very well written article. I think they hit the nail on the head. It is good to see that other people see the problem for what it is. Houston is having problems filling as well. One of our unique problems is people are paying their membership fees so they can get their TASO card and call peewee games on Saturday. They have no intention of ever calling subvarsity but they need their membership card to get the sweet peewee games. It is literally 200 people that do this.
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Very well written article. I think they hit the nail on the head. It is good to see that other people see the problem for what it is. Houston is having problems filling as well. One of our unique problems is people are paying their membership fees so they can get their TASO card and call peewee games on Saturday. They have no intention of ever calling subvarsity but they need their membership card to get the sweet peewee games. It is literally 200 people that do this.
Sounds like you need to amend your by-laws to require all officials to work a minimum number of SV games in order to maintain membership in good standing. That would mean senior guys have to work a minimum number as well.
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Fort Worth Chapter has a minimum of 16 subvarsity games. Not much but it does help them get covered.
We have a shortage at the sites away from the metroplex. Covering most games with just 2-3 officials where it should be 3-4. I have done several 5A JV games with a 3 man crew.
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Fort Worth Chapter has a minimum of 16 subvarsity games. Not much but it does help them get covered.
We have a shortage at the sites away from the metroplex. Covering most games with just 2-3 officials where it should be 3-4. I have done several 5A JV games with a 3 man crew.
That's more than our sv minimum. We are each required to cover 5 sv game sites on Thursdays, that's it. We usually get all of the other days covered but it is getting tight on those days as well.
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Currently I can give 1 night a week to officiating in the Fall. I dont take more then 1 varsity game and I dont call subvarsity. Before children I called 80-100 subvarsity games a season. When the kids are more self reliant I may pick up more sub varsity. When I retire I will do a lot of subvarsity.
How many 30-45 year olds do you have in chapters with subvarsity requirements? It is hard at this point in time to justify extra time away from job and family. I also think it is weak sauce to require people to work. Hey lets not fix any of the other variables that lead to a lack of officials ( pay, working conditions, lack of recruiting, etc etc) and lets just add another burden to our membership.
Monte would you quit if you had to work subvarsity? I know I would and I think there are easily 6-8 other 30-45 year olds on crews that would quit as well if they have to give up any more family time.
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Coby
I have a problem with that. Although my son is now a senior in HS, I have always (20+ years) made time for SV. In Dallas, every official has to work a minimum of 5 dates. If a chapter is having problems covering games, are ALL the Division 1's working? Or have some of them decided that "they have put in their time"? I think every official can find 5 days out of 11 weeks to cover SV games. Doesn't have to be a Thursday. Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday need officials too. Can't all be gravy. Everyone has to help with the heavy lifting. If you chapter has no problem covering games because you have a surplus of officials, then great -- no problem. But that is not the situation in most Chapters.
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Currently I can give 1 night a week to officiating in the Fall. I dont take more then 1 varsity game and I dont call subvarsity. Before children I called 80-100 subvarsity games a season. When the kids are more self reliant I may pick up more sub varsity. When I retire I will do a lot of subvarsity.
How many 30-45 year olds do you have in chapters with subvarsity requirements? It is hard at this point in time to justify extra time away from job and family. I also think it is weak sauce to require people to work. Hey lets not fix any of the other variables that lead to a lack of officials ( pay, working conditions, lack of recruiting, etc etc) and lets just add another burden to our membership.
Monte would you quit if you had to work subvarsity? I know I would and I think there are easily 6-8 other 30-45 year olds on crews that would quit as well if they have to give up any more family time.
I still work a little subvarsity but I limited myself to Thursday nights this year and I try my hardest to work only single games on Thursday. You hit it Coby, with two young children at home I don't want to be gone from them more than I have to be. Between Thursday and Friday night, and work requiring me to travel sometimes, I'm gone from them quite enough.
A minimum of sixteen subvarsity games a season plus a varsity schedule would be too much for me.
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DLJ,
I get the argument for SV requirements. Really I do. I just think that requiring everyone to work SV is going to have zero solvency on the bigger problem. Look at it this way... are chapters that have SV requirements still facing shortages? Then this policy has zero solvency. TASO chapters use it as a quick fix instead of a proper fix. Talking about any of the other issues seem to be off of the board but throwing this additional burden on members seems like it is always the most popular first choice.
My family situation is I have 15 days to call football. 2 scrimmages, 11 games, and maybe 2 playoff games. That is it.
Does your son play FB? Have him sign up for my event in February. Here are some videos
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Given away about 80 million in scholastic aid over last 6 years
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The thing about our requirements is that its 16 games and not a certain amount of days so you can rack up 16 games in 4 dates if you want to. Most people don't but for me up until this year I worked 3-4 days a week. This year I am only working one extra day a week besides my varsity schedule because I have a full time job and just started a part time business so I need those other dates to work my business.
Yes with the requirements we still have shortages but without them there would be games with no officials
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Not just a shortage issue. One of the reason we do it in Dallas is to make sure the Crew Chiefs get a chance to see other officials since we change our crews every two years up here. Very helpful for the young officials to get exposed to senior officials to both learn and have a chance to get on a crew.
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In Coby's defense..not that he needs it, but he gives a lot more of his time to this than many guys who are working subvarsity every week. The stuff he does with HUDL for his Chapter and others is invaluable. Just don't want folks thinking he is sitting around doing nothing while others are busting their arses.
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The way I looked at it when I started was I needed to work as many games as I physically could to help cover the costs of start up. lol I worked 72 games that first season, all subvarsity. I was working some weeks Monday thru Saturday. But you do that every year and you will be burnt out in a hurry.
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I have been calling for 28 years in three different chapters. Every year I have called we had the same problem with covering SV games. But now it is acute! We used to have 3-4 games sets depending on classification (7/8JV or 7/8AB). I have worked a many three games sets (hate the ) but that is what we must have the schools do in order to fill the games.
There is still the problem of some who abuse the system and find reasons to not work any sub varsity games
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One of the things that we are running into is that some districts have taken their double headers and split them off into two sites on the same day at the same time. There are other districts that are playing their Jr High on Thursdays at the site opposite of the Fr-JV games. This effectively doubles the amount of officials required to cover the games of two teams. Between that and I believe going to the metro mileage plan, we
As a chapter I'm hoping this is something we can address with the districts. It won't solve the issue all together but it will help I believe.
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What has happened is the Jr Hi principals in their infinite wisdom has decided that having their 13 year olds out until 9:00 at night on a school night is having a negative effect on their educational prowess. So if we only have 1 game at 4:30 little Johnny gets home at 7:00 and can still do his homework. Completely ignoring logistics of having a game administrator at 2 different dates, officials, transportation costs, lights, and the increase in transportation costs. High School coaches dont like it either. They preferred only having to send a coach to oversee the game once a week not twice a week.
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I think you guys in Texas have been dealing with lots of mid week games for a while. In my area California, traditionally, Freshman football was Thursday, JV/Varsity (2 games) Friday night, youth and the few schools that don't have lighted field on Saturday. This worked pretty good since most of the Freshman games on Thursday started after 5:30 and most of us that work during the day could make it to the field on time.
Recently, several leagues started play Varsity only of Friday nights and moving junior varsity to Thursday so that we have two games Thursday with the first starting at 4 PM. This has made it much tougher to cover these games, especially in the outlying areas. The schools did this without ever talking to the officials about it. The reason for the change is they believe they will make more money on the gate this way. This doesn't matter to us because we are paid a flat rate.
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What has happened is the Jr Hi principals in their infinite wisdom has decided that having their 13 year olds out until 9:00 at night on a school night is having a negative effect on their educational prowess. So if we only have 1 game at 4:30 little Johnny gets home at 7:00 and can still do his homework. Completely ignoring logistics of having a game administrator at 2 different dates, officials, transportation costs, lights, and the increase in transportation costs. High School coaches dont like it either. They preferred only having to send a coach to oversee the game once a week not twice a week.
Take two buses, let the 7/8 play and go home then the JV can play
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I think you guys in Texas have been dealing with lots of mid week games for a while. In my area California, traditionally, Freshman football was Thursday, JV/Varsity (2 games) Friday night, youth and the few schools that don't have lighted field on Saturday. This worked pretty good since most of the Freshman games on Thursday started after 5:30 and most of us that work during the day could make it to the field on time.
Recently, several leagues started play Varsity only of Friday nights and moving junior varsity to Thursday so that we have two games Thursday with the first starting at 4 PM. This has made it much tougher to cover these games, especially in the outlying areas. The schools did this without ever talking to the officials about it. The reason for the change is they believe they will make more money on the gate this way. This doesn't matter to us because we are paid a flat rate.
It would be sacrilege to have a JV game before the varsity game in Texas. And, I sure don't want to work a JV game at 4:30 or 5 the last weekend of August or first few weeks of September when field temps are around 120 degrees, then work a varsity game. JV games will always be on another day.
One other issue we have in Texas is the shear number of players playing football. It is not uncommon for a middle schools to have 3 teams per grade, 7th and 8th, and sometimes even freshmen. There are even sophomore teams at some schools. I've seen a high school field as many as 6 or 7 teams early in the season, and then they want to run games simultaneously.
Requiring guys to work is good, to a degree, but we cannot all work every Thursday, and most of us cannot work more than one SV day and varsity day in the same week. We also have some varsity games on Thursday, taking those guys out of the mix. In fact, we have a policy that does not allow any official to call a SV game the same day as a varsity game, even if they work Saturday morning then Saturday night varsity.
It is simple supply and demand. There is too much demand and not enough young, willing and able supply. Personally, I've been working two sv days a week for the most part and one varsity each week with a few double varsity games a week thrown in there. I'm barely hanging in there working that much and I'm ready to cut down to one sv day a week. The knees just can't take much more. The question then becomes, do guys that cannot work three days a week hang it up or just hang in there and work what they can?
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I'm not saying money is the only reason for these sorts of problems, but if subvarsity games paid $50 each, plus mileage, we wouldn't have as big a problem. A lot of guys, me included, don't like to work 3 man crews, even for jr. high. I don't mind it for 7th grade or even 8th grade B, but I've seen some pretty good 8th grade A teams and working 3 man is difficult at best. In areas that can work it, I think we should start using 4 in all jr. high games and at least 5 in all high school games. I think that would bring some more guys out and would give us the ability to train guys like umpires and back judges better. Some guys only have the ability to work those positions once or twice every 2 weeks.
However, in the non-urban areas, I know the increased crew size isn't going to work. I don't know what the fee increase would do.
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ET Ref--- That is a small town situation. I just want the 7th grade ABC team to play at one location, and the 8th grade ABC teams to play at one location. When they take more then one bus to a location they can not leave early because the bus driver (the coach) is also coaching the B and C team game.
NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games? It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.
Today for instance there are 152 Zware entries for Jr Hi games. Most for 2 games but some 3 and some 1. They all want 3 officials. That is 450 officials to cover those those games. That is literally half the chapter. Like Doc said it gets boring after a while, it is hard to skip work, it is hard to justify the effort for $80. If everyone worked 1 nonvarsity date a week we would still have a huge shortage.
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Coby, I think we are on the same page and posted earlier on this topic that the number of venues is the problem.
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Yup... Greater Houston (our coverage area) is adding 16 new high schools over the next 15 years. MF once told me that for every HS added you need to add 40 new officials (all sports) to cover the increased demand.
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NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games? It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.
I'm not aware of any middle schools in California that play football. At least in the area where I worked, schools didn't have teams until Freshman level. There were three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity. Freshman played on Thursday nights. JV kicked off at 4:30 on Friday and the Varsity game followed that. The sub-varsity high school games were also a much bigger deal than what I've seen out here.
The middle school aged players would play in the Saturday youth leagues. We never had an issue getting officials for those games because they paid well and you could work four in a day. Our association also officially assigned officials for those games and that is where the new guys would start before working up to Freshman / JV ball.
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I'm not aware of any middle schools in California that play football. At least in the area where I worked, schools didn't have teams until Freshman level. There were three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity. Freshman played on Thursday nights. JV kicked off at 4:30 on Friday and the Varsity game followed that. The sub-varsity high school games were also a much bigger deal than what I've seen out here.
The middle school aged players would play in the Saturday youth leagues. We never had an issue getting officials for those games because they paid well and you could work four in a day. Our association also officially assigned officials for those games and that is where the new guys would start before working up to Freshman / JV ball.
No wonder California sucks at football. They don't start learning until 9th Grade. In Texas they start learning to play before they even learn how to walk. ;D
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NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games? It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.
What Welpe said. Below 9th grade it youth leagues. Most youth leagues in my area are affiliated with a high school program and the best high school teams give their play books to the youth coaches. If the kid starts at the youngest age and stays with the same team, he will be playing in the same system for 10 years by the time he is a senior.
And if California football is so bad, why are their 8 teams in the Maxpreps top 25 compared to 3 from Texas. :sTiR:
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What Welpe said. Below 9th grade it youth leagues. Most youth leagues in my area are affiliated with a high school program and the best high school teams give their play books to the youth coaches. If the kid starts at the youngest age and stays with the same team, he will be playing in the same system for 10 years by the time he is a senior.
And if California football is so bad, why are their 8 teams in the Maxpreps top 25 compared to 3 from Texas. :sTiR:
Its a Fixed ranking system by people from California. ;D
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No wonder California sucks at football. They don't start learning until 9th Grade. In Texas they start learning to play before they even learn how to walk. ;D
I never said that they don't start playing football in California until 9th grade. They don't start playing it as a school sport until 9th grade. I've lost count of the number of 8th, 9th and even JV teams here that can't even manage to snap a football. That rarely seemed to be a problem in CA past the first couple of youth levels. ;)
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I'm not saying money is the only reason for these sorts of problems, but if subvarsity games paid $50 each, plus mileage, we wouldn't have as big a problem. A lot of guys, me included, don't like to work 3 man crews, even for jr. high. I don't mind it for 7th grade or even 8th grade B, but I've seen some pretty good 8th grade A teams and working 3 man is difficult at best. In areas that can work it, I think we should start using 4 in all jr. high games and at least 5 in all high school games. I think that would bring some more guys out and would give us the ability to train guys like umpires and back judges better. Some guys only have the ability to work those positions once or twice every 2 weeks.
However, in the non-urban areas, I know the increased crew size isn't going to work. I don't know what the fee increase would do.
My zeal for calling sub-varsity waned significantly when Tony Timmons came along and cut out the $45/game flat rate and told me to charge $30 for a 7th grade game. I used to work a 4-game set and make $200+ with mileage...Now it is a 2-game set for $75. Money has a lot to do with my availability. It sucks to get off work early, get to the field, get dressed, and work 1 JV game with a 3-man crew and make $40. Not worth it!
Add to that...we worked a 3A game on Week 1 (varsity) with a packed house! We made $65. Four weeks later, we worked a 2A game with 38 people in the stands and got a check for $60. We left work at 4:00, drove 1:30 min to the game, pre-gamed as a crew and with coaches, worked the game, grabbed a burger on the way home, and got back home at midnight. Eight hours for $60...minus a meal. Below is the UIL Pay Scale...and I don't know if there are any TASO board members reading this or not, but this is a joke for the rural chapters that work small school games. This needs to be seriously revised starting with a minimum of $5000 or below gate resulting in a $100 game fee. Sub-Varsity should be $50/game flat.
(3) Football.
Varsity
Gross Gate Receipts 1 Game
Up to $150 $45
$150 to $250 $50
$250 to $500 $55
$500 to $1,000 $60
$1,000 to $2,000 $65
$2,000 to $3,000 $70
$3,000 to $4,000 $75
$4,000 to $5,000 $80
$5,000 to $7,500 $85
$7,500 to $10,000 $90
$10,000 to $12,500 $95
$12,500 to $15,000 $100
$15,000 to $17,500 $115
$17,500 to $20,500 $125
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Something tells me you got the short end on that 3A game. Our smallest check has been $75 and that was a small private school. That's without mileage as well
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With the UIL, 1204 is basically "Law" for schools on how to pay. If schools are not following 1204 they need to be reported. And believe it or not the UIL will investigate those schools. If chapters "choose" not to report they are just as guilty as the schools who short the officials. 1204, like it or not is there and is to be followed to the letter by both schools and chapters of all sports.
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Section 1204 Section i #4
(4) Officiating chapters should be fair in their game assignments, offering smaller schools the opportunity to use higher level officials when possible.
So every chapter that has picks and lets 5A/6A pick first is in violation of this. How do I report this?
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How do I report this?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QXi24PO4L._SY300_.jpg)
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Notify the UIL. But remember who pays out more $$$ during playoffs. 6A or 1A?
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Section 1204 Section i #4
(4) Officiating chapters should be fair in their game assignments, offering smaller schools the opportunity to use higher level officials when possible.
So every chapter that has picks and lets 5A/6A pick first is in violation of this. How do I report this?
Good luck.
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I've been at this for some amount of time, the schools not being exactly on the ball about gate receipts has been an ongoing deal. Most of the time the season tickets are not counted in, it makes a big crowd pay cheap.
I'm not real big on the pay schedule, I do it because I like the game, the exercise keeps me in a half way decent shape, it gets me off the place several nights a week, and it's a bit of payback for some other guy doing it years ago. If you have the time and energy to figure every penny spent on a Friday night, you just might have too much time on your hands.
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I have also been doing this for a number of years and do not do it for the money (only time I see the check is the back side to endorse it for my wife to spend at Christmas). That said, in order to recruit new people we have to get the pay scale up some.
Taking off work and losing money or vacation time to work for less money than you would have made at work does not induce new guys to stay around.
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ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.
Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.
All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.
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ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.
Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.
All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.
i
I disagree with just about all of this.
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Pay rates are set at every level of officiating and in every state. The NFL and CFO set rates. Other states have flat rates for games. Texas pays more than most every state.
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In Arkansas the schools have contracts with the crews working their games. This way you know how much you will be paid for the schools you are contracted with. Works pretty good and if they get mad and scratch you after you have a signed contract you might set home on that particular Friday night but you will at least get paid
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P.s. The state association has a suggested minimum for game fees whether it is varsity, jv or junior high
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Heck, if we gonna do that, let the schools hire their own officials. They can have the same 5 ( or 7) every game. Sounds like a grand idea to me. LOL
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ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.
Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.
All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.
I Agree with just about all of this. Lets have a poll on subvarsity pay?
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Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks. Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for? The one that make favorable calls to the team willing to pay the most? Where are the allegiancies then? Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.
How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.
Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools. If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.
Just my humble opinion.
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I think that's the point DLJ, there is a definite shortage of officials now and UIL needs to get in front of the trend, not react when it's too late.
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Two things could help sv coverage tremendously. 1 raise rates a bit. No sv game should ever pay less than $40 to $50 each. 2 shorten playing times. So many schools are now passing a lot. Some middle school games can last an hour and a half or longer. Set a running clock or allow us to run the clock after incompletions except last two minutes of either half. I could even live with current rates if we could cap MS games to no longer than 1 hour.
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Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks. Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for? The one that make favorable calls to the team willing to pay the most? Where are the allegiancies then? Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.
How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.
Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools. If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.
Just my humble opinion.
There are already plenty of schisms in officiating dont kid yourself.
I am thinking Ebay can decide who is better. Put our services up for auction. Both coaches have to decide on a crew.
The lesser viewed official is already getting driven from the game.
All I want is the individual schools post their rates and let us decide which sub varsity we want to cover. Supply and Demand.
Heaven forbid we act like other vendors just because this is secondary income. Do police officers working extra security at games work for a discounted rate? What about the EMTs?
The UIL will blame us first and make us look bad then they will basically do what you said I agree.
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The crews contract the games themselves or go through an assignor. I only once or twice did not have a full schedule. We worked the 2a through the 6a games. Did not work the 7a because all the schools were too far north of us
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There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.
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There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.
And what was the range of agreed pay for a regular season games? Playoff games?
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There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.
Welpe, this is really a moot point. This will never happen in Texas.
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Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks.
Already exists. Schools go back and forth between Dallas and Fort Worth chapters. Both seek out schools during the time TASO allows the chapters to do such a thing. I'm sure other chapters have similar issues. We work it out.
Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for?
This isn't an issue. The chapter decides what it will or will not work the games (SV or V) for, and the school district agrees or doesn't agree. Everyone here is very familiar with this system because they use it in every other endeavor in their life from work to leisure.
Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.
Explain how a market based system would do this where a fixed price system, where the prices don't rise much, doesn't.
How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.
That's between the district and the chapter. Different chapters HAVE covered school's varsity and subvarsity schedules simultaneously.
Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools.
This has nothing to do with anything. Cops work security in a part time fashion. Other vendors sell their products or services to more than just schools. Only companies like educational service companies (or consultants) and school district employees derive all or most of their income from schools. Everyone else -- and its a significant number (office supplies, contractors, electronics equipment manufacturers and sellers, etc.) -- have other sources of business or income. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what this has to do with the discussion. Few people spend significants amounts of money and time getting prepared to do their part time job (for lack of a better way of putting it). You buy your uniform and gear, pay your dues, pay for training, spend a lot of time traveling to and from games, in meetings, etc. Name one other service that involves this much time, money and effort.
If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.
Specifically when was the last time either one of these happened? While UIL did allow the travel allowance to increase before last year, 5-7 years ago, I was making $45 for JV games in one district, and 3-4 years ago, was making $50 for JV games in another district. Both were likely due to athletic secretaries paying based on historical pay rates (due to agreements with the chapter) rather than 1204. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 30 (or 35) through 45 dollar pay rate for subvarsity is the same as it was as far back as 2007 and possibly earlier than that. Again, I don't recall because back then, school districts hadn't been clamped down on by UIL to pay the 1204 rate. Some did and some didn't. I know for a fact that school districts themselves didn't complain about paying agreed to rates with the chapter.
I can't for the life of me figure why some of you guys are willing to just sit by and let UIL tell us our business simply because they represent or set rules for our clients. Please name one other organization that does that.
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Welpe, this is really a moot point. This will never happen in Texas.
Probably not. I'm just responding to false and misleading claims being made here.
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There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.
California high school sports is broken up into 10 sections with the sections contracting with an assignor to get officials for games. The amounts the sections pay per game may be different.
In section I work in these are the rates.
Varsity game 5 officials = $84.
Subvarsity 5 officials = $44
Subsarsity 4 officials = $56
Playoffs 5 officials plus an alternate = $102
Youth officials can make $200-300 a day depending on the number of games. (4-5 games in a day)
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California high school sports is broken up into 10 sections with the sections contracting with an assignor to get officials for games. The amounts the sections pay per game may be different.
In section I work in these are the rates.
Varsity game 5 officials = $84.
Subvarsity 5 officials = $44
Subsarsity 4 officials = $56
Playoffs 5 officials plus an alternate = $102
Youth officials can make $200-300 a day depending on the number of games. (4-5 games in a day)
How much does the assignor get paid?
How does one become an assignor?
How does the assignor find officials?
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How much does the assignor get paid?
How does one become an assignor?
How does the assignor find officials?
Q1. I don't know.
Q2. Contracting process through the section.
Q3. Well, the official belong to an association that provides a list of certified officials to the assignor prior to the start of the season.
I should ask these questions to association.
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Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.
I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.
So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.
So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.
Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents...
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Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.
I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.
So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.
So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.
Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents...
:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
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Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.
I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.
So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.
So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.
Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents...
I understand for the most part where you are coming from and agree with a lot of it. How do you get the right people involved with officiating? Like I have said before there is only so much disposable time in a day. Work has 8-10 hours a day, family has 5-6 hours a day, sleep has 7-9 hours a day. What do you give up to be able to start officiating. If you are lucky you have 10-15 hours of me time every week. Officiating now has to compete with: golf, fishing, lions club, bbq cook off team, honey do lists, happy hour, church, poker night, volunteer fire fighter, etc etc. Cutting out time away from these events is sometimes just as hard as cutting away from your job and family.
Money comes into play more towards the principle of the situation. This is AMERICA we believe in free economics. So why is it that the only thing that is controlled with regards to HS Football is officials pay? UIL does not set ticket cost, coaches stipends, security guard pay, etc etc. Why are we getting screwed?
I am sorry but I am skilled labor when you get down to the brass tax of it. Does an apprentice electrician get paid as much as a master electrician? Is there a difference in quality between a pair of shoes made by an apprentice cobbler and one made by a master cobbler (sorry I have always wanted to be a cobbler).
If school district X wants to pay more for higher quality officials then they should be allowed. The Money matter is now a matter of principle.
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Remember that the average age of officials is now over 50 and we are trying to recruit people in their 20's. So much has changed: The Golden Rule of our time has changed to the Platinum Rule (Treat others the way THEY want to be treated!). We were taught to work hard to accomplish our goals and as such, we understood that it was a process to get from point a to point b in our career. Today's young people want instant gratification. There is nothing wrong with their expectations but it is difficult for us old guys to accept.
I believe that the only way to get them into the program is with money and the other part (loving the game and camaraderie) will come as they experience it. It is a difficult problem to deal with but if something isn't done soon it will only get worse,
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I think we are perhaps missing something here. I suspect most officials are/were married.
I know from my point of view, I would and do do it for the love of the game, however I also know the time I spend is a lot easier to "clear" at home if the remuneration is reasonable.
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I think we are perhaps missing something here. I suspect most officials are/were married.
I know from my point of view, I would and do do it for the love of the game, however I also know the time I spend is a lot easier to "clear" at home if the remuneration is reasonable.
Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore. ^flag
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Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore. ^flag
You and me both!
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Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore. ^flag
My wife sits at the mailbox and berates the mailman to hurry up and put the checks in!!! It's so embarrassing. ;D
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Can't speak for others, but a real problem for me is traffic. I cannot take some mid week games knowing I cannot get there in time. We get assigned so I cannot go into the system and pick games I know I can get to. Where else can you have a hobby that delivers cash and exercise? Fans don't bother me because I am 50% deaf and 50% I don't listen. Increase in fees would be nice, but there are still places I can't get to in time. Having said that football needs to get with the others sports.When you can make more doing other sports or even sub varsity football, it is no wonder there were many occasions this season where a crew needed a fill in. In 5 years in Houston TASO there were more requests for help this year than in the other 4 years combined. I heard stories of 45-55$ check for on field officials when the clock guys got 60$. I am biased, but grumbling is legit!
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I heard stories of 45-55$ check for on field officials when the clock guys got 60$.
You may have heard stories, but this is an every week occurrence out here in West Texas. Of the 16 varsity games I called this year, only one of them was more than $60 before mileage/meal fee. And we don't even get "official" clock operators/chain crews.
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You may have heard stories, but this is an every week occurrence out here in West Texas. Of the 16 varsity games I called this year, only one of them was more than $60 before mileage/meal fee. And we don't even get "official" clock operators/chain crews.
That has to change! No wonder you guys are struggling to fill games. Who want that kind of pay for those kind of hours. It is hard to convince the wife you will be gone for 10 hours to make $60 or less going to somewhere like Presidio.