Interesting Article in San Angelo Paper about officials

[Coby]

ET Ref--- That is a small town situation.  I just want the 7th grade ABC team to play at one location, and the 8th grade ABC teams to play at one location.  When they take more then one bus to a location they can not leave early because the bus driver (the coach) is also coaching the B and C team game.

NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games?  It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.

Today for instance there are 152 Zware entries for Jr Hi games.  Most for 2 games but some 3 and some 1.  They all want 3 officials.  That is 450 officials to cover those those games.  That is literally half the chapter.  Like Doc said it gets boring after a while, it is hard to skip work, it is hard to justify the effort for $80.  If everyone worked 1 nonvarsity date a week we would still have a huge shortage.

[Etref]

Coby, I think we are on the same page and posted earlier on this topic that the number of venues is the problem.

[Coby]

Yup...  Greater Houston (our coverage area) is adding 16 new high schools over the next 15 years.  MF once told me that for every HS added you need to add 40 new officials (all sports) to cover the increased demand.

[Welpe]

NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games?  It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.

I'm not aware of any middle schools in California that play football. At least in the area where I worked, schools didn't have teams until Freshman level. There were three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity. Freshman played on Thursday nights. JV kicked off at 4:30 on Friday and the Varsity game followed that. The sub-varsity high school games were also a much bigger deal than what I've seen out here.

The middle school aged players would play in the Saturday youth leagues. We never had an issue getting officials for those games because they paid well and you could work four in a day. Our association also officially assigned officials for those games and that is where the new guys would start before working up to Freshman / JV ball.

[JasonTX]

I'm not aware of any middle schools in California that play football. At least in the area where I worked, schools didn't have teams until Freshman level. There were three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity. Freshman played on Thursday nights. JV kicked off at 4:30 on Friday and the Varsity game followed that. The sub-varsity high school games were also a much bigger deal than what I've seen out here.

The middle school aged players would play in the Saturday youth leagues. We never had an issue getting officials for those games because they paid well and you could work four in a day. Our association also officially assigned officials for those games and that is where the new guys would start before working up to Freshman / JV ball.

No wonder California sucks at football.  They don't start learning until 9th Grade.  In Texas they start learning to play before they even learn how to walk.

[NorCalMike]

NorCalMike--- Do you not cover Jr Hi games?  It is the main problem here in Houston the Jr hi coverage.

What Welpe said. Below 9th grade it youth leagues. Most youth leagues in my area are affiliated with a high school program and the best high school teams give their play books to the youth coaches. If the kid starts at the youngest age and stays with the same team, he will be playing in the same system for 10 years by the time he is a senior.

And if California football is so bad, why are their 8 teams in the Maxpreps top 25 compared to 3 from Texas. 

[Wingmanbp]

What Welpe said. Below 9th grade it youth leagues. Most youth leagues in my area are affiliated with a high school program and the best high school teams give their play books to the youth coaches. If the kid starts at the youngest age and stays with the same team, he will be playing in the same system for 10 years by the time he is a senior.

And if California football is so bad, why are their 8 teams in the Maxpreps top 25 compared to 3 from Texas. 

Its a Fixed ranking system by people from California. 

[Welpe]

No wonder California sucks at football.  They don't start learning until 9th Grade.  In Texas they start learning to play before they even learn how to walk.

I never said that they don't start playing football in California until 9th grade. They don't start playing it as a school sport until 9th grade. I've lost count of the number of 8th, 9th and even JV teams here that can't even manage to snap a football. That rarely seemed to be a problem in CA past the first couple of youth levels. 

[blindref757]

I'm not saying money is the only reason for these sorts of problems, but if subvarsity games paid $50 each, plus mileage, we wouldn't have as big a problem. A lot of guys, me included, don't like to work 3 man crews, even for jr. high. I don't mind it for 7th grade or even 8th grade B, but I've seen some pretty good 8th grade A teams and working 3 man is difficult at best. In areas that can work it, I think we should start using 4 in all jr. high games and at least 5 in all high school games. I think that would bring some more guys out and would give us the ability to train guys like umpires and back judges better. Some guys only have the ability to work those positions once or twice every 2 weeks.

However, in the non-urban areas, I know the increased crew size isn't going to work. I don't know what the fee increase would do.

My zeal for calling sub-varsity waned significantly when Tony Timmons came along and cut out the $45/game flat rate and told me to charge $30 for a 7th grade game.  I used to work a 4-game set and make $200+ with mileage...Now it is a 2-game set for $75.  Money has a lot to do with my availability.  It sucks to get off work early, get to the field, get dressed, and work 1 JV game with a 3-man crew and make $40.  Not worth it!

Add to that...we worked a 3A game on Week 1 (varsity) with a packed house!  We made $65.  Four weeks later, we worked a 2A game with 38 people in the stands and got a check for $60. We left work at 4:00, drove 1:30 min to the game, pre-gamed as a crew and with coaches, worked the game, grabbed a burger on the way home, and got back home at midnight.  Eight hours for $60...minus a meal.  Below is the UIL Pay Scale...and I don't know if there are any TASO board members reading this or not, but this is a joke for the rural chapters that work small school games.  This needs to be seriously revised starting with a minimum of $5000 or below gate resulting in a $100 game fee.  Sub-Varsity should be $50/game flat.

(3) Football.
Varsity
Gross Gate Receipts 1 Game
Up to $150 $45
$150 to $250 $50
$250 to $500 $55
$500 to $1,000 $60
$1,000 to $2,000 $65
$2,000 to $3,000 $70
$3,000 to $4,000 $75
$4,000 to $5,000 $80
$5,000 to $7,500 $85
$7,500 to $10,000 $90
$10,000 to $12,500 $95
$12,500 to $15,000 $100
$15,000 to $17,500 $115
$17,500 to $20,500 $125

[Wingmanbp]

Something tells me you got the short end on that 3A game. Our smallest check has been $75 and that was a small private school. That's without mileage as well

[copedaddy]

With the UIL, 1204 is basically "Law" for schools on how to pay. If schools are not following 1204 they need to be reported. And believe it or not the UIL will investigate those schools. If chapters "choose" not to report they are just as guilty as the schools who short the officials. 1204, like it or not is there and is to be followed to the letter by both schools and chapters of all sports.

[Coby]

Section 1204 Section i #4

(4) Officiating chapters should be fair in their game assignments, offering smaller schools the opportunity to use higher level officials when possible.

So every chapter that has picks and lets 5A/6A pick first is in violation of this.  How do I report this?

[Welpe]

How do I report this?

[copedaddy]

Notify the UIL. But remember who pays out more $$$ during playoffs. 6A or 1A?

[TexDoc]

Section 1204 Section i #4

(4) Officiating chapters should be fair in their game assignments, offering smaller schools the opportunity to use higher level officials when possible.

So every chapter that has picks and lets 5A/6A pick first is in violation of this.  How do I report this?

Good luck. 

[Cowman52]

I've been at this for some amount of time,  the schools not being exactly on the ball about gate receipts has been an ongoing deal.  Most of the time the season tickets are not counted in,  it makes a big crowd pay cheap. 

I'm not real big on the pay schedule,  I do it because I like the game,  the exercise keeps me in a half way decent shape, it gets me off the place several nights a week,  and it's a bit of payback for some other guy doing it years ago.  If you have the time and energy to figure every penny spent on a Friday night, you just might have too much time on your hands.

[Etref]

I have also been doing this for a number of years and do not do it for the money (only time I see the check is the back side to endorse it for my wife to spend at Christmas). That said, in order to recruit new people we have to get the pay scale up some.

Taking off work and losing money or vacation time to work for less money than you would have made at work does not induce new guys to stay around.

[Joe Stack]

ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.

Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.

All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.

[TexDoc]

ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.

Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.

All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.

i


I disagree with just about all of this. 

[DallasLJ]

Pay rates are set at every level of officiating and in every state.  The NFL and CFO set rates.  Other states have flat rates for games.  Texas pays more than most every state.

[george7244]

In Arkansas the schools have contracts with the crews working their games. This way you know how much you will be paid for the schools you are contracted with. Works pretty good and if they get mad and scratch you after you have a signed contract you might set home on that particular Friday night but you will at least get paid

[george7244]

P.s. The state association has a suggested minimum for game fees whether it is varsity, jv or junior high

[Cowman52]

Heck, if we gonna do that, let the schools hire their own officials.  They can have the same 5 ( or 7) every game.  Sounds like a grand idea to me.       

[Coby]

ANY conversation on avalability and quantity of officials has to include the topic of fees.

Chapters should be able to negotiate their own fees with the individual districts. UIL has no business setting the rates. They don't set the rate for coaches pay. They don't set the rate for payment of security officers. They don't set the rate for admission fee prices. Only for officials. And WE ALL let them get away with it.

All it would take is the first Wed and Thur night of the season to not show up if signed contracts by each district are not mailed or faxed back to the appropriate chapter. The entire issue would be solved the next day since the school districts themselves would have no problem paying. They have done so in the past. If a school district truly can not afford it, they may be given the option of accepting a lesser experienced crew if that crew desires to work that game. Some will; some won't. Then its all market forces. But the bottom line is that we shoot ourselves in the foot by continually saying this isn't about the money for us. If you truly believe that, you're the only one in the equation that does. It is definitely about the money for schools, coaches, etc.

I Agree with just about all of this.  Lets have a poll on subvarsity pay?

[DallasLJ]

Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks.  Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for?   The one that make favorable calls to the team willing to pay the most?  Where are the allegiancies then?   Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.

  How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.

  Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools.  If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.

  Just my humble opinion.