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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: psv on December 20, 2018, 08:13:18 AM

Title: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: psv on December 20, 2018, 08:13:18 AM
couple things I would like to see UIL institute for next year:

1) UIL institute a mercy rule.  50, 60 points, run the clock.

2) Sub Varsity clocks:  7th and 8th grade, when the ball goes back to the middle of the field after a stoppage (penalty, incomplete pass, player out of bounds, whatever), we wind the clock.

Edit to add #3

3) Tighter controls on airhorns.  Being next to the sidelines is completely unacceptable.  They should be a minimum 100 feet away from the field.  I had one guy blow it right in my ear as I walked by once.  I loathe them.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TexDoc on December 20, 2018, 08:45:52 AM
couple things I would like to see UIL institute for next year:

1) UIL institute a mercy rule.  50, 60 points, run the clock.

2) Sub Varsity clocks:  7th and 8th grade, when the ball goes back to the middle of the field after a stoppage (penalty, incomplete pass, player out of bounds, whatever), we wind the clock.

I agree!!!  We run the clock anyway, so why not make it a formal rule.   As for middle school games, the worst thing to ever happen to these games is game clocks not being kept by officials.  The operators are usually not very good and watch the ball, not the officials.  There is no good reason to have a 2 hour middle school game!  I'd also like to limit TO's to 2 per half per team.  Personally, I very much dislike working middle school now days because the games are just too long, for the most part.  They try to throw the ball, and usually quite badly. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: salth2o on December 20, 2018, 11:28:36 AM
I agree.  We usually run the clock as well.  The middle school where my son plays has a running clock for B team.

Do away with knee pad rule.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Arbitrator on December 21, 2018, 06:14:12 AM
I agree!!!  We run the clock anyway, so why not make it a formal rule.   As for middle school games, the worst thing to ever happen to these games is game clocks not being kept by officials.  The operators are usually not very good and watch the ball, not the officials.  There is no good reason to have a 2 hour middle school game!  I'd also like to limit TO's to 2 peri half per team.  Personally, I very much dislike working middle school now days because the games are just too long, for the most part.  They try to throw the ball, and usually quite badly.

 ^flag  And even with the implementation of a written UIL mandate to that effect, you're still going to have a plethora of those very same coaches and administrators that will be busy scurrying down to the field from the press box to tell the refs not to run that clock, despite the score being something like 56-0 at the six minute mark of the 2nd Quarter and screaming out, ~ "Hey! We've got kids that we need to play, you idiot ~ don't run that clock!"

They simply won't give two hoots in hell if the UIL mandated it or not!  z^
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: jj06878 on December 21, 2018, 06:57:02 AM
Had a mentor once say for sub varsity...start every game with a 12-12 score.  Every time you take a time out if cost you 3 points. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TexDoc on December 21, 2018, 07:54:01 AM
^flag  And even with the implementation of a written UIL mandate to that effect, you're still going to have a plethora of those very same coaches and administrators that will be busy scurrying down to the field from the press box to tell the refs not to run that clock, despite the score being something like 56-0 at the six minute mark of the 2nd Quarter and screaming out, ~ "Hey! We've got kids that we need to play, you idiot ~ don't run that clock!"

They simply won't give two hoots in HECK if the UIL mandated it or not!  z^

We have a coach in my area that refuses to let the clock be run in varsity or sub varsity games regardless of the score.  It could be 120 to 0 and he doesn't like it.  The last time I worked a varsity game for this coach we were quite liberal with the clock in a 64 to 0 game in the 3rd quarter and the coach called a TO and said to me "hey, we don't run the clock at XXXX."  I just said, that's fine coach, but I do because there is no reason to embarrass those kids on the other sideline, their coach wants it, and if you disagree, don't pick me again.  He never picked me again, and I scratched him, so we have nice understanding. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: psv on December 21, 2018, 11:13:45 AM
I edited to include airhorns... the big ones that should be on trains or semi's... those need to be far away from the field.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxBJ on December 21, 2018, 11:17:26 AM
I edited to include airhorns... the big ones that should be on trains or semi's... those need to be far away from the field.
+1
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: ElvisLives on December 21, 2018, 03:46:55 PM

Doesn't affect UIL guys directly, day-to-day, but I'd like the NCAA to change replay to make it a "challenge" system, only - one, plus one more if first one is correct, and, like the NHL, if they are wrong, its a penalty, plus loss of T/O, plus no more challenges.

Maybe two replays per game.

Robert
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JDM on December 21, 2018, 04:41:35 PM
I edited to include airhorns... the big ones that should be on trains or semi's... those need to be far away from the field.

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: QAfta on December 22, 2018, 08:32:37 AM
Coaches no longer select officials/crews for games.  But since the coaches will never give this up....
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JasonTX on December 22, 2018, 03:01:45 PM
Coaches no longer select officials/crews for games.  But since the coaches will never give this up....

Regular season our coaches don't.   For playoffs we allow it.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: salth2o on December 23, 2018, 12:28:47 PM
I would like DPI to be a spot foul. 


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Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: ElvisLives on December 23, 2018, 03:15:35 PM
I would like DPI to be a spot foul. 


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It was, a long time ago, but it was deemed too severe, so it was changed.  Not at all likely to revert back.

Robert
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Clear Lake ref on December 27, 2018, 10:05:57 AM
Switch wing sides at the half.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Clear Lake ref on December 27, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
For all subvarsity run chains on the home sideline.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxBJ on December 27, 2018, 01:44:05 PM
Switch wing sides at the half.
Why in the world would we want to do that?
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: first_year_guy on December 27, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
College does it, let’s the wings work the side of each coach, in case there is trouble with one coach he won’t have to be with him all game
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxBJ on December 27, 2018, 03:19:28 PM
College does it, let’s the wings work the side of each coach, in case there is trouble with one coach he won’t have to be with him all game
I don’t see any of those as valid reasons, especially “college does it.” I know when the NCAA started doing it the prevailing opinion around this forum was we wouldn’t want to do it in Tx high school, but maybe that is not the prevailing opinion anymore.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: first_year_guy on December 27, 2018, 03:29:38 PM
Texas high school officials are the most easily persuaded officials in the country due to coaches picks, a coach works the wing officials, switching would let both coaches work the same wing official which would even it out
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Williams on December 27, 2018, 05:34:11 PM
Texas high school officials are the most easily persuaded officials in the country due to coaches picks, a coach works the wing officials, switching would let both coaches work the same wing official which would even it out
Would that be the end of "that guy over there is xxxxing me!"
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Etref on December 27, 2018, 06:41:00 PM
 LOL
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TexDoc on December 27, 2018, 09:20:28 PM
Texas high school officials are the most easily persuaded officials in the country due to coaches picks, a coach works the wing officials, switching would let both coaches work the same wing official which would even it out

 tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl

In the country, huh? 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: first_year_guy on December 27, 2018, 09:45:46 PM
You can read!! aWaRd
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: HoustonRef on December 27, 2018, 09:52:00 PM
I would def agree that Texas HS officials bend over for coaches bc they want to make sure they get picked in post season and next season. Coaches use the pick system to their advantage and sadly there are officials who will do whatever it take to make coaches happy and get picked.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: HoustonRef on December 27, 2018, 10:07:25 PM
It could be 120 to 0 and he doesn't like it.  The last time I worked a varsity game for this coach we were quite liberal with the clock in a 64 to 0 game in the 3rd quarter and the coach called a TO and said to me "hey, we don't run the clock at XXXX."  I just said, that's fine coach, but I do
So you just make up your own rules as you see fit???
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: HoustonRef on December 27, 2018, 10:13:09 PM
Why in the world would we want to do that?
Says the guy in the middle of the field watching a play clock all game...oh and recording the R’s fouls.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Looker44 on December 27, 2018, 11:11:45 PM
1. For KO, hit the 40 sec when the B is ready with ball.
2. When score delta is >40 after half, clock runs. Only stops on injury and TO. For all Sub V delta is 24. "Coach, its a UIL Rule "

 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: QAfta on December 28, 2018, 06:14:49 AM
For all subvarsity run chains on the home sideline.

How about the chain gang be of high school age?  Not the 7th graders from the B game....
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Etref on December 28, 2018, 11:28:45 AM
Many times the B team 7th grade is better than the "high school age" who are talking to girls, checking their phone, etc.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JasonTX on December 28, 2018, 11:49:57 AM
How about the chain gang be of high school age?  Not the 7th graders from the B game....
I had a 7th grade game and the chain crew was a 6th graders who couldn't reach the numbers on the down box.  I spoke with the AD about the issue and requested that he at least get us some kids who could reach the down box.  The next week we go back and it's the same kids but this time they could reach the box.  Coach took the 7ft down box and cut it down to 5 ft so the kids could reach it.   hEaDbAnG
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxBJ on December 28, 2018, 12:37:55 PM
Says the guy in the middle of the field watching a play clock all game...oh and recording the R’s fouls.
Around here the B records all fouls!  Yours must be lazy.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TXPanhandle on December 28, 2018, 01:27:22 PM
Around here the B records all fouls!  Yours must be lazy.

I have a question on the subject of recording fouls.  What good does it do any longer to record fouls?  When I first started officiating we would record fouls, fill out the NCAA foul sheet at the end of the game and then deliver a copy to each coach before leaving the game site.  Then things progressed where the NCAA foul sheet was no longer provided and, instead, all fouls were recorded in our scheduling system, ZebraWare.  Then ZebraWare goes away an hence we no longer have a system to record our fouls.  But when we were recording fouls I saw very little value from it in the high school game.  Primarily because there was no supervisor to report to and marry up fouls called to game film evaluated. 

So I ask, what good does it do for high school varsity games?  Side Note:  we do record any UNS for obvious purposes. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JasonTX on December 28, 2018, 01:51:15 PM
I have a question on the subject of recording fouls.  What good does it do any longer to record fouls?  When I first started officiating we would record fouls, fill out the NCAA foul sheet at the end of the game and then deliver a copy to each coach before leaving the game site.  Then things progressed where the NCAA foul sheet was no longer provided and, instead, all fouls were recorded in our scheduling system, ZebraWare.  Then ZebraWare goes away an hence we no longer have a system to record our fouls.  But when we were recording fouls I saw very little value from it in the high school game.  Primarily because there was no supervisor to report to and marry up fouls called to game film evaluated. 

So I ask, what good does it do for high school varsity games?  Side Note:  we do record any UNS for obvious purposes.

We record all of our fouls and the coaches still get a copy electronically.  We actually use this data to keep track of any trends such as the wings throwing more flags against the other side.  We also use the foul report to review the game film.  Are certain crews more strict on calling certain fouls is something we look at.  For us we want to see teams foul less.  We can look up player numbers and what fouls are committed and pass that information along to the coach.   
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: HoustonRef on December 28, 2018, 02:13:00 PM
Around here the B records all fouls!  Yours must be lazy.
Lol they usually are
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TexDoc on December 28, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
My chapter still records fouls, enters them into Reftown and submits to the coaches. I’m not sure how accurate they are though. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TXPanhandle on December 28, 2018, 03:07:53 PM
My chapter still records fouls, enters them into Reftown and submits to the coaches. I’m not sure how accurate they are though.

Thanks Jason and Doc.  I can tell you when we were entering fouls the accuracy was absolutely suspect.  Especially when trying to match up to game film.  For example, I'd see a holding foul entered against the home team and the quarter/time would say 2nd - 12:00.  Obviously that's not when the foul occurred.  Again, because there's no supervisor at the chapter level it seems nobody gives a damn. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TexDoc on December 28, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Thanks Jason and Doc.  I can tell you when we were entering fouls the accuracy was absolutely suspect.  Especially when trying to match up to game film.  For example, I'd see a holding foul entered against the home team and the quarter/time would say 2nd - 12:00.  Obviously that's not when the foul occurred.  Again, because there's no supervisor at the chapter level it seems nobody gives a DARN.

Without a sideline liaison, I’m not sure how accurate these can be.  We move along fairly quickly and getting the foul, number and time down is of least importance in the scheme of things.  We have to focus on the next play. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JasonTX on December 29, 2018, 01:53:41 AM
Without a sideline liaison, I’m not sure how accurate these can be.  We move along fairly quickly and getting the foul, number and time down is of least importance in the scheme of things.  We have to focus on the next play.

Most of our back judges use an audio recorder.  At times we will have a new member travel with the crew and keep the fouls.  The back judge is recording the foul while the referee is making the announcement. 
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxSkyBolt on December 29, 2018, 09:32:39 AM
Without a sideline liaison, I’m not sure how accurate these can be.  We move along fairly quickly and getting the foul, number and time down is of least importance in the scheme of things.  We have to focus on the next play.
Really not too hard to track your fouls on game card. But without a supe downgrading an official for inaccurate foul report, there is little motivation to ensure accuracy unless you take pride in your work.


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Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Etref on December 31, 2018, 08:05:28 AM
BONUS QUESTION!

At the end of the game, comparing all crew members game cards, what should be on all of the cards?

Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: TxBJ on December 31, 2018, 09:51:52 AM
BONUS QUESTION!

At the end of the game, comparing all crew members game cards, what should be on all of the cards?
All UNS fouls.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: js in sc on December 31, 2018, 09:59:59 AM
All UNS fouls.
UNS fouls and time outs.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: Etref on December 31, 2018, 10:09:23 AM
And line to gain and ball on for change of quarter......

Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: psv on December 31, 2018, 01:02:54 PM
Wow... I didn't realize recording/not recording fouls was a thing.  As a back judge for the last 9 years, I have always just done it.  I use a recorder.  I used to use the NCAA foul report, but now we put the fouls into our assignment system.  I use them when I look at film to see calls that I want another look at.

I didn't realize people didn't do it.  I thought all back judge's did.  At least all the ones I know do.


Lets get back to something that really matters for next season... moving those stupid airhorns away from the field.  :)

Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: centexsports on January 07, 2019, 09:09:32 AM
OK, here is my wish list for the coming football season.
1) Outlaw all low blocking except for the 5 interior linemen on their initial block (+/- 1 yard from LOS).
2) Require all schools 3a and higher to utilize 7 man crews if available.
3) Mercy rule for all varsity games.  35 points after halftime starts a running clock with defined parameters.
4) 20 minute running clock except for last 2 minutes of each half in all 7, 8 & 9 grade games.
5) 25 minute running clock for jv games except for last 2 minutes of half.
6) Rotate State championship games through chapters.   If a chapter does not have a crew at this level then they can opt out. 
7) Require coaches to use the chapter in their area.   I was not in favor of this until I saw the state championship games.   I did not see any elite crews that were head and shoulder above the top crews in other chapters I have been able to watch.

I hope to call at least four more years if the second knee replacement goes as good as the first.   There is nothing like being on the field at a Texas high school game when the national anthem is played.   I wish all the people that think this country is broken could come to Texas on a Friday night and see what the real USA is about.
Title: Re: Changes for next season I would like to see:
Post by: JasonTX on January 07, 2019, 10:06:01 AM
I wish all the people that think this country is broken could come to Texas on a Friday night and see what the real USA is about.

 aWaRd