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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: texref on September 27, 2010, 02:21:31 PM
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Wondering if this is the "joint" letter we were promised?
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I will not register until I hear it straight from my chapter. Maybe not even then. Freakin' UIL - power hungry little dictators. Kinda reminds me of another one, some few hundred miles Northeast....
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Did you notice how the Texas Coaches Association was invited by TASO and DID NOT SHOW UP? The writing is on the walls!! You just need to open your eyes and read it. The UIL Officials Division is here to stay. Might as well sign up!!!!!!
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TASO...file the second lawsuit!!!
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It was NOT a joint memo. Generated solely by UIL and does not reflect TASO's take on the meeting ior the current state of affairs.
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7000 already registered. I'm calling B.S on that one.
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TASO...file the second lawsuit!!!
It was refiled. See below:
September 8, 2010
In last week’s update I advised you that in return for the UIL’s apparent willingness to continue our discussions, TASO would hold off in refiling our law suit to prevent their hostile takeover attempt of Texas High School Officiating. All along we knew that this could be a stalling tactic and would be prepared to respond at any time.
Late last week it became apparent that the UIL has no intention to attempt to reach any form of negotiated agreement. As you may know they opened up the Registration Process at their web site early on Monday morning and sent e-mails to all of the officials that they have managed to secure (by whatever means possible) e-mail addresses.
I will say, that they were kind enough to give me advanced notice … I received an e-mail at 12:42 AM on Monday Morning. I imagine they were surprised to find a reply from me less than an hour later.
Yesterday TASO refiled the law suit as outlined by the Third Court of Appeals in their decision on August 27th. The next step will be to schedule a hearing to seek a Temporary Injunction to stop the UIL registration process. This hearing will be scheduled ASAP.
On Tuesday we requested a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) to halt the UIL Registration process pending the hearing for an Injunction. In order for a TRO to be granted a party must show that irreparable harm will result in the absence of the TRO. Based on the fact that the registration deadline is not until November 1, and TASO officials may work UIL games until that point, it really came as no surprise that the TRO request was denied.
Be assured that we will aggressively seek to secure the Temporary Injunction to halt the hostile takeover attempt by the same governing body that is controlled by the public school districts. If this is allowed to happen, the independence of the high school sports officials in Texas will be lost.
It is also important to remember this. Our first suit was dismissed on a technicality, not the merits of the case. The Appeals Court stated in their decision “We express no opinion on the merits of TASO’s ultra vires claims, including whether, in the event that TASO brought these claims against a government officer acting in an official capacity, it could “allege, and ultimately prove, that the officer acted without legal authority or failed to perform a purely ministerial act.”
Also not to be forgotten is that when the four decisions have been issued by both the trial and appellate court based on material facts of the case, TASO has won all four.
Many of you have been told that you must quickly register with the UIL and that it will be in the best interest of your Chapter to do so. This is just not true. Then deadline is currently November 1st, it makes no difference if you register now or October 31st. If it does, then you should question the motives. It is more likely that those who are urging you to register immediately are doing so for their own self gain.
I urge you to take your time and consider all the facts. Ask yourself why the UIL is so dead set in controlling high school officiating. They say they are not going to charge any money to register … this year, but make no promises about next year, or the next. Why is that? I think I know, but I’ll let you come to your own conclusion.
I have asked dozens of UIL supporters why they are so pro UIL. Typically the answer I get is simple, it’s that they make play off assignments. I hear a few others, but not a single answer has ever addressed the well being of the body of high school officials … and more importantly, not to the betterment of the student athlete.
In the past week, I have received more than 100 e-mails and phone calls of support for our members. I am encouraged and strengthen by your support. I am more convinced than ever that the over whelming majority of our members want TASO to remain an independent organization OF officials, BY officials and FOR officials.
More later.
Mike
Michael Fitch
Executive Director
Texas Association of Sports Officials
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7000 already registered. I'm calling B.S on that one.
Once registered, you are allowed to look at a "list" of all officials who have registered UIL in Texas. I didn't count the names, but the list is very long. I would imagine it contains many from sports other than football.
The letter received today makes one thing very clear - regardless of which organization you affiliate with, all organizations present, and there seemed to be very reputable ones present, support UIL's effort to register officials - for free - and not having to leave TASO. They addressed the rumor of future charges (not UIL's call - Leg Council only).
I've registered and looked at the list - surprisingly (or not) many TASO folks in my chapter - the ones talking bad about UIL the most - were already registered - very interesting.
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Wondering if this is the "joint" letter we were promised?
What is the over/under on how many times he said "free" in that little spiel?
All in all it sound like a load of crap to me, all of it self serving UIL BS!
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Sometimes what is NOT said in a public announcement is more telling than what IS said? Instead of saying 7000 officials why not tell us how many there are for ea sport? Maybe because there are 5000 basketball folks who sold out already last year. Add in the softball, baseball and soccer folks who may have went plus alll the folks in El Paso and what do you see?
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Cooter, where can you find this list?
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Cooter, where can you find this list?
"Once registered, you are allowed to look at a "list" of all officials who have registered UIL in Texas."
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I received an email from our district director and it does not appear that the UIL statement was agreed with TASO and they had no input in that statement.
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Cooter, where can you find this list?
On the UIL site - you log on - top right is a tab with Sports Officials - once there, you can view a tab that says "lists." Under the Lists tab, it pulls up all officials alphabetically that have registered.
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Why don't one of you register on here and then provide the list. ;D
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Why don't one of you register on here and then provide the list. ;D
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not me. I might get cooties from their site or something........
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I created a fictitious name to register under and can see the list.
So, there are around 5000 football officials with TASO. On the list for football so far, 364. That means 7% of all of the football officials have signed up so far. That does not sound like a tidal wave of registration.
I can post the entire list of names if you guys want it.
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or send it to us in a private message
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Here is the list. Not trying to embarrass or out anyone. This is public info, so there you go.
Edit: I don't know the details, but this could be a private list based on the other posts in the thread.
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No Sir - it's not a public document. And you said you had to falsify a government document to get the list. Thin Ice.
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Cooter, we just had a judge tell us that the UIL is a public entity. So, how could this NOT be open records?
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If anyone could get the list - it would be public - as it stands now, only those registered are allowed to see it. You registered fictitiously, (from a state website) and published the list. Not saying the list could not have been obtained under Freedom of Information Act - but that is a legal route sanctioned by law -but not in the way you went about it. In my legal opinion, you have set yourself up for problems should UIL chose to make an example. I personally would not have gone there and do not see how "outing" people serves and productive purpose.
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Cooter, I'm not going to prolong this discussion any longer. The list is there. It was easily obtained. If anyone could be "damaged" by being "outed" then they should have thought about signing up before they signed up. The UIL was very clear that the list would be highly visible. They were right, for once.
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TexDoc
Whilst I do not agree with everything Cooter says I have to say I am not sure publishing a list that was obtained in a dubious way helps anyone.
An even bigger problem is that, as we know you created a false name to register, we cannot even be certain that those on the list are real people or are the real people who we may know to have these names.
I am not a supporter of the UIL and although I have a very small vested interest (maybe one varsity game a year if I am lucky) I think that their actions appear petty and duplicitous. I think their current working is likely to make even more people less likely to join willingly. Either they are responsible for dealing with failings of UIL schools or they are not. They should not as a state body decide to ignore certain events because it serves a political agenda they hold.
However, I think that by publishing a virtually worthless list obtained as you did simply gives them some ammunition to throw back if they choose to.
Of course it is your choice but I think the names should be removed from this forum as they serve no useful purpose to the discussion unless the UIL tries to state it has registered 7,000 football officials and there is an argument about the truth of that fact.
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What is the big deal? Is anyone on this list being accused of doing anything wrong? You can go to most chapter websites in the state and get a list of the guys "registered" with that Chapter. This just shows who is registered with the "UIL Chapter". If you think there is something wrong with the names being made public then perhaps what you really think is wrong is that they registered with UIL. I see the names of some folks who I know I have games with before the end of this season. Does not mean I am not going to work the game or give any less effort just because they are in it.
As I said earlier, the lack of a statement by UIL as to how many officials they had in each sport is a telling statement. All this list does is help keep UIL honest in their continuing campaign to persuade football people to register before UIL's world possibly implodes on them on Nov 1.
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I created a fictitious name to register under and can see the list.
Are you charles breit? ;D
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Ones I see I know are registered in basketball but do football. I see no football only ones I know from my group.
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Ones I see I know are registered in basketball but do football. I see no football only ones I know from my group.
The only people from Houston that I saw were Basketball and Football officials, but not all of the double dippers that I know of were listed??? Will look at it in more detail at work tomorrow. There is no problem posting this information. I just wish some of the people that are in support of posting it would have been more supporting of me when I posted TT teaching certificates last year. It is time to go to the mattresses people. Either get on board now or be the UIL's chew toy in the future.
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If the UIL locks us out, it will be the best thing that ever happened to us. The only way TASO survives is for A LOT of week 10 games to be canceled. The UIL is run by a dictator that will not listen to reason.
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Why is nobody having a fit that the Texas Association of Coaches did not show up in TASO's behalf at the big meeting? Could it be they really don't give a damn? Thats my guess. C'mon Fitch write another big rah rah letter to keep the troops together, because they are starting to get away from ya. Good luck.
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It may be just as telling that they did not show to support UIL either. Furthetmore, the memo is UIL's take on what was said or not said. How do we know that is an accurate depiction of the truth? And why wasn't there a "joint statement" as promised? Could it be TASO did not see/hear what UIL "saw/heard"?
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I will say this I did register with the UIL I did not JOIN the UIL. I have said from the get go that I don't have any issue with a shared responsibility. There was not a requirement to quit TASO or i would not have done so. I agreed to call the 2010 football season and i will not be a party of ending a kids season . Its not thier fight. If next season noone has renewed registration then thats one thing. But this year is planned and kids expect me to make sure I am on the field so they can have that Boys of Fall moment. I have been and continue to be a TASO supporter. I hope they prevail. But if all i am required to do for the uil is send them my name whats the big deal. When the season is over and I have completed my commitment then that will be the time to decide if we should go on. Thats my stance like it or not I'm here to call football If taso survives I will be thrilled if not I will call football and hope the next organization does right by us guys in stripes.
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Who was it that promised the joint statement? That would be TASO. Same ole sh*t, different day. Nothing has changed except the TASO sh*t pile has gotten taller. Thank the Lord, UIL is taking over!!!!
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When the season is over and I have completed my commitment then that will be the time to decide if we should go on. Thats my stance like it or not I'm here to call football If taso survives I will be thrilled if not I will call football and hope the next organization does right by us guys in stripes.
[/b][/u]
That is the statement of the year and mark my words......THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE REST OF THE STATE WILL REACT TO THE UIL'S NEW LEADERSHIP. Proceed Dr. B and Mr. Timmons.
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I will say this I did register with the UIL I did not JOIN the UIL. I have said from the get go that I don't have any issue with a shared responsibility. There was not a requirement to quit TASO or i would not have done so. I agreed to call the 2010 football season and i will not be a party of ending a kids season . Its not thier fight. If next season noone has renewed registration then thats one thing. But this year is planned and kids expect me to make sure I am on the field so they can have that Boys of Fall moment. I have been and continue to be a TASO supporter. I hope they prevail. But if all i am required to do for the uil is send them my name whats the big deal. When the season is over and I have completed my commitment then that will be the time to decide if we should go on. Thats my stance like it or not I'm here to call football If taso survives I will be thrilled if not I will call football and hope the next organization does right by us guys in stripes.
Grayhat
My biggest concern is that you, and anyone who registers, is buying the proverbial pig in the poke. Unless and until the UIL clarifies all of its expectations for me as an official, I cannot tell if it is a good deal, bad deal or neutral. For example, by "registering" are you know subject to being called to Austin if someone does not like a call that you have made, or an improper enforcement that costs a team a game ending score? Can the UIL decide that your conduct, on the field or off, merits your no longer being allowed to be registered? What rights to you have in those scenarios? Who do you get to appeal to?
Until the UIL clarifies what its "expectations" are for registered officials, and what the polices, if any, are going to be, anyone who subjects themselves to the UIL system may find that they regret that decision.
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Ornery1 - again I come back to the same question I have asked of every UIL supporter, and have yet to receive an answer. Why is the UIL a much better option than TASO? What is the reason I should support their takeover of officiating? I am open to reasoning, but I have yet to hear any. Perhaps you can be the one to enlighten me.
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Very short list Doc. At the current rate that folks are running over there to sign up it certainly appears that there will be tons of games not covered by UIL officials. I guarantee you that we will be working games as non-UIL registered officials. It appears that the UIL plan is sure to fail considering how short that list is.
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By making it free to register they make it even easier to drop you if they choose to, with no "due process" at all.
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It was refiled. See below:
September 8, 2010
In last week’s update I advised you that in return for the UIL’s apparent willingness to continue our discussions, TASO would hold off in refiling our law suit to prevent their hostile takeover attempt of Texas High School Officiating. All along we knew that this could be a stalling tactic and would be prepared to respond at any time.
Late last week it became apparent that the UIL has no intention to attempt to reach any form of negotiated agreement. As you may know they opened up the Registration Process at their web site early on Monday morning and sent e-mails to all of the officials that they have managed to secure (by whatever means possible) e-mail addresses.
I will say, that they were kind enough to give me advanced notice … I received an e-mail at 12:42 AM on Monday Morning. I imagine they were surprised to find a reply from me less than an hour later.
Yesterday TASO refiled the law suit as outlined by the Third Court of Appeals in their decision on August 27th. The next step will be to schedule a hearing to seek a Temporary Injunction to stop the UIL registration process. This hearing will be scheduled ASAP.
On Tuesday we requested a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) to halt the UIL Registration process pending the hearing for an Injunction. In order for a TRO to be granted a party must show that irreparable harm will result in the absence of the TRO. Based on the fact that the registration deadline is not until November 1, and TASO officials may work UIL games until that point, it really came as no surprise that the TRO request was denied.
Be assured that we will aggressively seek to secure the Temporary Injunction to halt the hostile takeover attempt by the same governing body that is controlled by the public school districts. If this is allowed to happen, the independence of the high school sports officials in Texas will be lost.
It is also important to remember this. Our first suit was dismissed on a technicality, not the merits of the case. The Appeals Court stated in their decision “We express no opinion on the merits of TASO’s ultra vires claims, including whether, in the event that TASO brought these claims against a government officer acting in an official capacity, it could “allege, and ultimately prove, that the officer acted without legal authority or failed to perform a purely ministerial act.”
Also not to be forgotten is that when the four decisions have been issued by both the trial and appellate court based on material facts of the case, TASO has won all four.
Many of you have been told that you must quickly register with the UIL and that it will be in the best interest of your Chapter to do so. This is just not true. Then deadline is currently November 1st, it makes no difference if you register now or October 31st. If it does, then you should question the motives. It is more likely that those who are urging you to register immediately are doing so for their own self gain.
I urge you to take your time and consider all the facts. Ask yourself why the UIL is so dead set in controlling high school officiating. They say they are not going to charge any money to register … this year, but make no promises about next year, or the next. Why is that? I think I know, but I’ll let you come to your own conclusion.
I have asked dozens of UIL supporters why they are so pro UIL. Typically the answer I get is simple, it’s that they make play off assignments. I hear a few others, but not a single answer has ever addressed the well being of the body of high school officials … and more importantly, not to the betterment of the student athlete.
In the past week, I have received more than 100 e-mails and phone calls of support for our members. I am encouraged and strengthen by your support. I am more convinced than ever that the over whelming majority of our members want TASO to remain an independent organization OF officials, BY officials and FOR officials.
More later.
Mike
Michael Fitch
Executive Director
Texas Association of Sports Officials
^flag
It really should come as no surprise that TASO had no other discernible option other than to refile the lawsuit against the UIL. The little joint meeting turned out to pretty much be a dog and morons show(and with all due respect to both those entities) orchestrated by the Manor Road Crowd. They had no intention, even from the "git-go" of even thinking about negotiating with TASO; this little soiree was put together by the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. so they could show their childishness in flexing their muscles with TASO right in front of the Legislative Council, probably for their own amusement!
I have stated many times that Fitch and TASO had no business attending such a meeting because there was virtually nothing there for TASO to positively negotiate for. Perhaps Mr. Schumann wanted our attendance there to later show the court how warmly received our organization was. I'm beginning to think that everyone over there on Manor Road that is in any kind of a leadership position has to meet their heralded prerequisite requirement of smelling like a rectum. Now it's more than apparent that we have living proof of that!
As far as the people on the list is concerned, I only noticed one or two from the Greater Houston area, and I could really care less if they choose to go over there! But 7,000 registered could be accurate given the fact that the UIL has already exercised its takeover in the sports other than football. But then again, that number does seem rather far-fetched! I still feel that there could well be the potential for a massive statewide lockout in Week 10 provided that no restraining order is issued by the new trial court. And just maybe that's exactly what the UIL needs; because they sure seem to be overtly asking for it!
I, for one, will not register and will never give any semblence of loyalty to anyone in the UIL. I have had a most stellar officiating career and will just go about devoting the balance of my life and time to my Lord and Saviour and to my family and dear friends. I see the type of people that seemingly offers up leadership within their organization and they are obviously not what I'd call God-fearing people~ they are nothing more than a group of manipulative bullies who want to have their way so that they can help siphon off even more of the athletic buck in the state of Texas just to perpetuate the more than sorry existence of the UIL! z^
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I will say this I did register with the UIL I did not JOIN the UIL. I have said from the get go that I don't have any issue with a shared responsibility. There was not a requirement to quit TASO or i would not have done so. I agreed to call the 2010 football season and i will not be a party of ending a kids season . Its not thier fight. If next season noone has renewed registration then thats one thing. But this year is planned and kids expect me to make sure I am on the field so they can have that Boys of Fall moment. I have been and continue to be a TASO supporter. I hope they prevail. But if all i am required to do for the uil is send them my name whats the big deal. When the season is over and I have completed my commitment then that will be the time to decide if we should go on. Thats my stance like it or not I'm here to call football If taso survives I will be thrilled if not I will call football and hope the next organization does right by us guys in stripes.
I'm not saying you are wrong...I admire your dedication and I respect how you have served our chapter and your guys very well since you took over your crew. You are an excellent leader.
However, I look at this much differently. I am planning on going to work my week 10 game as an unregistered official. If the school tells me not to show up, I did not let the kids down...the schools and the UIL did. I feel that the best thing we as officials can do to help TASO is to refuse to go on that list--whatever the cost.
There are a lot of things that I like about the UIL's governance--being in a small chapter, the one chapter one vote set up is appealing. I have a ton of questions about the "accountability" issue. But my #1 fear is Tony Timmons. He had a perfect opportunity to use honey instead of vinegar to attract some flies this week...and he used extortion to try and lure another registration. He refused to wait another day for Fitch to reply to his "joint statement", and alienated even more folks. From everything I've seen, that is his M-O in everything he encounters. If you were interviewing for a job, and got that vibe from the guy interviewing you, you'd have to think twice about going to work for that type of person. That's where I'm at.
Enjoy working Thursday, Friday, and Saturday on week 10! My daughter is a Sr. in HS and I'll be watching her march in the band and cheering for her team!
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I believe that any deadline imposed by the UIL for this current year was wrong. The season has been scheduled and planned. Dues have been paid and Crews have been assigned. I could have taken a stand and said no. However as i've said i don't want kids to pay for our inability to communicate with each other. I do not like the way any of this has been handled and both groups have plenty of fingers to point at the other side. We have been waiting on that joint statement. They both agree to send out a joint statement and it doesn't happen. If a joint statement was aggred upon then some compromises or understandings must have been accomplished. Why not tell us what you know good, bad or indifferent that day. No news is not always good news.
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^flag
Don't exactly be expecting to lay your eyes anytime soon on that "joint statement!" After all, the lawsuit has already been refiled with all of the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed, and with the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and several of his protoge's named as defendents! z^
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^flag
Don't exactly be expecting to lay your eyes anytime soon on that "joint statement!" After all, the lawsuit has already been refiled with all of the "i's" dotted and the "t's" crossed, and with the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and several of his protoge's named as defendents! z^
Has anyone seen a copy of the new suit? It does not appear that files in Travis County are on-line.
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Im sorry to say that my name is on the list because of Basketball. Since they have already taken over Basketball. I always have the Right Not to Call Football next year if I do not agree with there policies. and if Im Call to Austin for any reason I can Always Tell Them To Kiss My @##and resign. Like I said before There taking over for the MONEY. What started all the s### any way
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I expect Nov 1 they will not push the registration requirement but come playoff they will.
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rick, the UIL might not, but what about one of the few teams on the outside looking in on the playoffs. If another school got in, and they were sitting at home, if they can tell that the other school used "unregistered" officials, I would guess that they would be looking to question the validity of the contest under UIL rules.
I haven't found anything yet that Greyhat has said I disagree with on this matter.
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Has anyone seen a copy of the new suit? It does not appear that files in Travis County are on-line.
^flag
DallasLJ: I haven't seen a copy of the lawsuit but I've heard a little bit about it. Like the initial lawsuit, it took a little while for that info to actually post up on the Travis County Courts website, but once it was there, it was actually pretty easy to keep up with. Anyone that gets access to that info would do us all an immense service by posting it here. After all, while all-out war is being waged against the Manor Road Minions, the TASO troops would like to know the current layout of the battlefield! z^
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To register or not?
Register: it's free, you get to work playoff games and your week 10 assignment.
Not: Registration is step one towards regulation - in fact, regulation is probably spitting distance from registration. While debating this, I think it is very important to note that, although registration is free THIS YEAR, the changes to Rule 1204 the UIL attempted to institute last year will be in place - including the Officials Rules Compliance Program, The UIL's Code of Ethics, and the UIL's plan to takeover TASO. Also worth noting, a violation of the Code of Ethics is failure to cooperate with the UIL (ie better do what they say). I've said it before, and I will say it again, "It is worth forgoing Week 10 and this year's playoffs for decades more of TASO."
Some great Mr. Timmons' quotes (from the first lawsuit):
preference would be given to UIL registered officials over TASO registered officials in game assignments;
that, because of the recent rule changes in the UIL documents, “you won’t find the word TASO in there with a telescope”;
if, next year, officials want to officiate a game, “they must be with the UIL or they will not be on the floor”;
UIL intends to provide the same services currently provided by TASO;
that, in the coming year, all officials “will be with the UIL – period.”
for those officials who did not comply with the new UIL registration scheme, it would be “bye-bye”;
that the UIL intended to make “drastic changes” for officials in the coming years.
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Im sorry to say that my name is on the list because of Basketball. Since they have already taken over Basketball. I always have the Right Not to Call Football next year if I do not agree with there policies. and if Im Call to Austin for any reason I can Always Tell Them To Kiss My @##and resign. Like I said before There taking over for the MONEY. What started all the s### any way
Unless someones pays for my expenses and lost salary and asks my boss if i can have the day off i'm not driving to Austin....i have a cell phone...
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You refuse to go and they pull your "registration" and you are done. That is your "due process".
And for you who complained to Grant about "the list", what are you ashamed of?
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You refuse to go and they pull your "registration" and you are done. That is your "due process".
And for you who complained to Grant about "the list", what are you ashamed of?
I copied it and saved it to my Benedict Arnold Turncoat CCCS's file on my computer. Thanks for posting it. I am going to register as Haywood Jablowmee. Keep up the good fight and get ready to be locked out on Oct. 30.
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Your elected heroes might be able to help, but they can't help unless they hear from you. If you don't know who your elected heroes are here's an aide so long as you know where you are. Remember, the UIL is a state agency, right? So they have to answer to you at the end of the day.
http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/welcome.php
http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/Senate/Members.htm#FYI
Also, if you know anyone on your local school board, the administration answers to them. Reach out to them - they can't help if they don't know what's going on either.
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Haywood Jablowmee.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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I think it is time for TASO leadership to at least call a conference call with all chapters on this matter and fill us in on what is going on weekly. Just an opinion.
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And for you who complained to Grant about "the list", what are you ashamed of?
Mike,
No one complained to me about the list that was posted here. I just didn't think it was in the best interest of anyone to post member names on a public message board. Even though I know nothing about what is going on in Texas, I certainly don't want to be pulled into this in any way because it was posted on a board I own.
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If someone posted the names of all NFL officials (like Referee magazine does ea year) would you remove it? Al the list is is a list of guys registered with UIL to call football in Texas
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I'm on the list and not ashamed of it. My sincere hope is that TASO comes out on top because I'm not a fan of Mr. Timmons and his rhetoric and I'm not a fan of Dr. B either. I mentioned long ago about how important this "more than just a hobby" is to me. Almost all of my 13 seasons of officiating was done while I was in the Air Force. That career made it very difficult, at times, for me to call games. I missed 6 seasons due to moves and deployments and those 6 seasons were horrible. After all of this I made myself a promise that nothing would would keep me from doing what I enjoy most. The real shame of this whole unfortunate incident can be summed in this one comment:
I copied it and saved it to my Benedict Arnold Turncoat CCCS's....
. What is this supposed to mean? Does it mean that, at some point, your "list" will be used for a witch hunt if TASO wins out? What if the UIL wins out? Should those of you who sit out the playoffs be added to a list of turncoats/Benedict Arnolds by those of us who elect to work? Sorry, friend, I'm just making decisions based on my judgement and what I feel is MY best direction, don't make this personal.
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Herb, I respect your right to do what you feel is in your best interest. In fact, I have lost no respect for anyone who feels they should sign up. Good for you. We will not all agree on this issue, but we can all agree that we want to officiate.
There were several people, including Herb, on that list that have been long time friends of mine. They will remain my friends regardless of their decision. This whole issue is not more important than those friendships. I sincerely hope this issue does not allow the UIL to divide and conquer. We have to stay together as officials for one another, regardless of what side of the fence we fall on as far as this issue.
Herb, your service to our country and putting your life on the line overseas is a HELL of a lot more important than this crap. My sincere apologies if posting that list rubbed you the wrong way. I think you will also recognize my right to post the list. Certainly, my intention was not to harm.
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Greg
I have absolutely no issue with the posting of the list. I make no apologies for the decision I made and having my name on that list isn't something I'm ashamed of. Depending on how all of this turns out, I MAY REGRET registering with these jokers. If indeed I do regret the decision, I want it to be because the UIL turns out to suck and not because some headhunters disguised as TASO supporters use my decision to descriminate.
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^flag
Just went against my word and registered with the UIL.....under a nicely assumed name and non-existant email address. The process was all too easy; kind of like playing at the carnival shooting gallery: keep shooting until you hit the clown. Long story short, an idiot could pass that certification. If this is what the UIL has that makes them think that they have something that makes TASO envious by comparison, then those folks have a whole lot of work ahead of them!
And FYI, there ain't nowhere near the 7,000 on that list as :!# The Dancing Monkey allegedly purports! Oh, well! Maybe TT just happened to miss math class on the day that they covered estimations! z^
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^flag
Just went against my word and registered with the UIL.....under a nicely assumed name and non-existant email address. The process was all too easy; kind of like playing at the carnival shooting gallery: keep shooting until you hit the clown. Long story short, an idiot could pass that certification. If this is what the UIL has that makes them think that they have something that makes TASO envious by comparison, then those folks have a whole lot of work ahead of them!
And FYI, there ain't nowhere near the 7,000 on that list as :!# The Dancing Monkey allegedly purports! Oh, well! Maybe TT just happened to miss math class on the day that they covered estimations! z^
Which makes the question even more pertinent, what is the real reason UIL insist on having us register? I go back to my statement of some weeks ago and it is about ego and power. It appears to have nothing to do with making Texas high school sports better.
I believe the choice to not register should be encouraged. Let all of your chapter officials know that there is no need to register. The schools will not lock us out if they have no other viable options.
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^flag
I see the type of people that seemingly offers up leadership within their organization and they are obviously not what I'd call God-fearing people~ they are nothing more than a group of manipulative bullies who want to have their way so that they can help siphon off even more of the athletic buck in the state of Texas just to perpetuate the more than sorry existence of the UIL! z^
Wow, I'm impressed - you now have the eyes of God and are able to discern who might or might not be God fearing - Really? Really? Dude, get a life. It's just a football GAME.
I'm still baffled by the attitude of a few on this site that think TASO is in the driver's seat - TASO lost - UIL won - ALL organizations associated with High School Football in Texas (except TASO Football) support UIL and their efforts to register officials. Go ahead and make your statement by not showing up on week 10 - there are many of us out there that will call varsity every night of the week to make sure these kids can play the GAME.
If I don't get my way I'll take my toys and go home - now who is the bully?
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It has nothing to do with us being a "bully" If bully tactics are being used in this matter it is the UIL trying to bully us into being their servants.
If Timmons left today, I might sign up tonight. He is using this arbitrary deadline to break TASO football so that they can have a complete run of the show and do as they please. Remember these are the same folks who now refuse to investigate an incident report simply because the submitter has not registered with UIL. If they will do that now what will they do later?
Cooter, wish you the best.
Rick
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If someone posted the names of all NFL officials (like Referee magazine does ea year) would you remove it? Al the list is is a list of guys registered with UIL to call football in Texas
There is a difference there in that the list is only supposed to be available to the registered members...assuming I've read the posts correctly. I wouldn't post the names of all officials registered in Arkansas even though I have access to it. It is also only for registered members to see.
It's kinda like the CEO of a company laying off a bunch of people and then receiving a $3 million dollar bonus. There's nothing illegal about it, but it just doesn't seem right.
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ALL organizations associated with High School Football in Texas (except TASO Football) support UIL and their efforts to register officials.
I don't think that can be said yet. Far as I know, the most major player, the THSCA has not weighed in.
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Grant, I'm going to argue, but I will point out something. UIL is a state agency. All their information, phone records, budget, salaries, etc, are public information. Subsequently, all of the information about officials who have signed up with them is also public information and very easily obtained.
With that, I will let you make the decision you see fit. If anyone wants a list, they can ask me directly and I can send it. Sound like a fair compromise?
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There is a difference there in that the list is only supposed to be available to the registered members...assuming I've read the posts correctly.
Not quite. The UIL has already made it known the list would be available to all schools also.
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Not quite. The UIL has already made it known the list would be available to all schools also.
That might be true, but I don't think the intent was to post it in a public forum. Based on what has been posted in this thread, anyone who really wants to see it can get to it so there's no need to post it here.
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LOL. once again, when asked directly, the UIL minions run and hide. I am beginning to think all the UIL supporters are disgruntled wanna-be officials who couldn't buy their way into the stands for a playoff game.
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LOL. once again, when asked directly, the UIL minions run and hide. I am beginning to think all the UIL supporters are disgruntled wanna-be officials who couldn't buy their way into the stands for a playoff game.
What was asked to UIL supporters that was not answered? Or were your questions directed towards someone specific? I'm probably not the best official in the chapter - guarantee i'm not - but there are a bunch I respect a great deal that are very good - several work college also - that have registered UIL.
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LOL. I am beginning to think all the UIL supporters are disgruntled wanna-be officials who couldn't buy their way into the stands for a playoff game.
Well let me put it to you this way. I will put my resume up against 90% of all Texas High School officials. I have been there and done that and I'm gonna do more. I have worked all the big games not only locally but multiple state championships, semi-finals, quarter finals. Worked all the big stadiums Texas Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, Astrodome, Reliant, Memorial, Kyle Field, Alamodome, Rock Pile, HEB, UT Arlington, UTEP, Jones Stadium just to name a few. Not bragging, I've paid my dues, worked hard and have the experience. I have been a part of SFOA (remember the patches and leggings before 1 piece socks, I do) and TASO and now want to be a part of the UIL. TASO has been a mess for years and it is hard to get the sh*t back in the goat but they are trying like hell now that they know it is probably too late. I'm not going to name names but a lot of the former leadership and ex officio's are probably to blame as well as THE GOOD OLE BOY SYSTEM. But those days are over. Thank God.
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You don't like the good ole boy system????? What the heck you think UIL did with Timmons???? Please don't insult us and say he was qualified for what he was given. Have you seen HIS resume? If you are as tight with UIL folks as you claim to be you know full well how he got there and it is the epitome of GOod Ole Boy.
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Ill go out on a limb here and say the good ole boy system will be alive and well regardless of whos in charge....I am from small chapter currently our chapter has 1/3 of 1 vote in Taso and likely will not change if UIL gets control.
Ornery do you think the way you promote the uil is helping or hurting your cause. I say it hurts. These are hard decisions we all have to make some of us will register because we don't wanna stop calling because we love the game. We also love the friendship of our crew and our fellow chapter members . I won't let my decision to join or someone elses decision not to join be something that comes between those friendships.
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Strange. I've gotten all the UIL emails in the past but I did not get this one.
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Ornery do you think the way you promote the uil is helping or hurting your cause. I say it hurts. These are hard decisions we all have to make some of us will register because we don't wanna stop calling because we love the game. We also love the friendship of our crew and our fellow chapter members . I won't let my decision to join or someone elses decision not to join be something that comes between those friendships.
Well I think I am telling the truth with out all the name calling, can you hear me MR ARBITRATOR. Yes, it is a hard decision for you young guys who haven't been around or a part of the Good Ole boy crew system. I love this game and so does everyone else on this site or we wouldn't waste the time to post. The friendships I have made not only through my chapter but throughout the state and beyond are priceless. I know its a hard decision, but like everything else in life, change isn't always bad (except OBAMA). Just don't think for a minute we can't all be replaced, even mama taught us better than that. Life goes on!!!!!
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Well I think I am telling the truth with out all the name calling, can you hear me MR ARBITRATOR. Yes, it is a hard decision for you young guys who haven't been around or a part of the Good Ole boy crew system. I love this game and so does everyone else on this site or we wouldn't waste the time to post. The friendships I have made not only through my chapter but throughout the state and beyond are priceless. I know its a hard decision, but like everything else in life, change isn't always bad (except OBAMA). Just don't think for a minute we can't all be replaced, even mama taught us better than that. Life goes on!!!!!
Who is going to represent you if you are called to Austin for something that is out of your control? Who will the UIL side with? You just won't get a fair deal with someone who exists only to take care of the schools. TASO may have had some problems in the past as well as some not so good leaders but at least we have had a vote in putting them in that position. You've had every oppurtunity to run for a position to be a leader in TASO, but instead you fire shots at those who did. Instead of firing those shots, maybe you should thank them for at least attempting to represent you regardless of how good or bad they did.
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Instead of firing those shots, maybe you should thank them for at least attempting to represent you regardless of how good or bad they did.
Jason you are right, thanks guys for pushing me to the UIL.
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Jason you are right, thanks guys for pushing me to the UIL.
No one pushed you, you were there when you logged in....that simple yet inefficient tactic of lodging a post up there with a good one liner in an effort to make it seem to others that you have been "persuaded" is obsolete.
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I know its a hard decision, but like everything else in life, change isn't always bad (except OBAMA).
You couldn't have made a more perfect example with that quote... I will say that yes, it is ok to stand up and say that sometimes change is bad, I don't need a 2008 election result to convince me of that.
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You couldn't have made a more perfect example with that quote... I will say that yes, it is ok to stand up and say that sometimes change is bad, I don't need a 2008 election result to convince me of that.
Nobody is trying to get a reaction from you. This is TEXAS and we don't need liberal honyoks coming in to our board and tellin us how they feel
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Well I think I am telling the truth with out all the name calling, can you hear me MR ARBITRATOR. Yes, it is a hard decision for you young guys who haven't been around or a part of the Good Ole boy crew system. I love this game and so does everyone else on this site or we wouldn't waste the time to post. The friendships I have made not only through my chapter but throughout the state and beyond are priceless. I know its a hard decision, but like everything else in life, change isn't always bad (except OBAMA). Just don't think for a minute we can't all be replaced, even mama taught us better than that. Life goes on!!!!!
Well let me put it to you this way. I will put my resume up against 90% of all Texas High School officials. I have been there and done that and I'm gonna do more. I have worked all the big games not only locally but multiple state championships, semi-finals, quarter finals. Worked all the big stadiums Texas Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, Astrodome, Reliant, Memorial, Kyle Field, Alamodome, Rock Pile, HEB, UT Arlington, UTEP, Jones Stadium just to name a few. Not bragging, I've paid my dues, worked hard and have the experience. I have been a part of SFOA (remember the patches and leggings before 1 piece socks, I do) and TASO and now want to be a part of the UIL. TASO has been a mess for years and it is hard to get the sh*t back in the goat but they are trying like hell now that they know it is probably too late. I'm not going to name names but a lot of the former leadership and ex officio's are probably to blame as well as THE GOOD OLE BOY SYSTEM. But those days are over. Thank God.
^flag
Well, Ornery! I, for one, am most impressed! It is apparent that you have had the opportunity to pitch peanuts in an awful lot of big-time high school football venues statewide! But if I guessed correctly, you either paid the going rate for an admission ticket or I'd say that someone in your local leadership was responsible for getting you to those games because I don't really think that you got there due to anything remotely in your ability or intelligence makeup! Your exodus from TASO to the UIL is most welcome because I wouldn't really want anyone of your stature representing TASO in any shape, form, or fashion.
I sincerely wish you the very best over there on Manor Road, where politics runs rampant and ability is solely determined by who you know and whose apples habitually get polished well! You'll fit right in over there and and can be the handmaiden for both the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# Dancing Monkey! After all, the places they can send you off to absolutely know no bounds! And then when they finally get around to kicking your butt without any kind of due process, then you can always go back online and tell all of us exactly how badly you were mistreated by them! z^
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Nobody is trying to get a reaction from your dumb BUTT middle dumb f*ck egypt BUTT. This is TEXAS and we don't or need any liberal honyoks coming in to our board and tellin us how they feel
Pahahahahaha..... "liberal honyoks"???? you couldn't be more off.... kind of like standing on the 35 when everyone else is on the 18 yd line looking at you with that deer in the head light look.
I didn't post this to get a reaction, i posted it as a reaction to yours. You've obviously made your decision, I merely commented on it. But it is nice to show the rest of the viewers your true side by the egregious comments you made.
Good talk,
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You've had every oppurtunity to run for a position to be a leader in TASO, but instead you fire shots at those who did.
You are making the assumption that he was not a "leader" at some point who then lost that role for reasons that may have HACKED him off.
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Nobody is trying to get a reaction from your dumb BUTT middle dumb f*ck egypt BUTT. This is TEXAS and we don't or need any liberal honyoks coming in to our board and tellin us how they feel
^flag
This comment is uncalled for, unprofessional and juvenile. Debate does not have to revert to name calling. This board needs a moderator. They gave us the state specific site mainly because of this taso uil thing. To debate and talk freely however that does not give any of us the right to deliver a profanity laden response. If you feel you need to do that send it in a private message or meet up behind the Tasty Freeze and settle man to man.
Just my opinion
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No moderator needed. Everyone is an adult here and capable of making their own decisions about how to respond to what they see. No need for a censor.
It is great when we get to see someone's true colors.
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Nobody is trying to get a reaction from your dumb BUTT middle dumb f*ck egypt BUTT. This is TEXAS and we don't or need any liberal honyoks coming in to our board and tellin us how they feel
What was that you were saying Bout name calling again?
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I guess your right. Just rubbed me the wrong way.
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Are you sure you are in Texas? ? ? Suggesting a "meetup" behind the Tastee Freeze instead of the DQ? Very un-Texan!! ;D
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Are you sure you are in Texas? ? ? Suggesting a "meetup" behind the Tastee Freeze instead of the DQ? Very un-Texan!! ;D
Yeah but his boss would kill him for mentioning DQ ( their competition)!!!!!!! ;D
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Yeah... I was trying to be neutral.. LOL I work for Whataburger-- so i am not allowed to use the "D" word.. pi1eOn
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Nobody is trying to get a reaction from your dumb BUTT middle dumb f*ck egypt BUTT. This is TEXAS and we don't or need any liberal honyoks coming in to our board and tellin us how they feel
This ain't a Texas board Skippy - It belongs to one person who allows us to post - keep up the posts like that and we will all be kicked off - Jeez
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Well let me put it to you this way. I will put my resume up against 90% of all Texas High School officials. I have been there and done that and I'm gonna do more. I have worked all the big games not only locally but multiple state championships, semi-finals, quarter finals. Worked all the big stadiums Texas Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, Astrodome, Reliant, Memorial, Kyle Field, Alamodome, Rock Pile, HEB, UT Arlington, UTEP, Jones Stadium just to name a few. Not bragging, I've paid my dues, worked hard and have the experience. I have been a part of SFOA (remember the patches and leggings before 1 piece socks, I do) and TASO and now want to be a part of the UIL. TASO has been a mess for years and it is hard to get the sh*t back in the goat but they are trying like hell now that they know it is probably too late. I'm not going to name names but a lot of the former leadership and ex officio's are probably to blame as well as THE GOOD OLE BOY SYSTEM. But those days are over. Thank God.
Sounds like the Good Ole Boys treated you well with games in those locations.
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This ain't a Texas board Skippy - It belongs to one person who allows us to post - keep up the posts like that and we will all be kicked off - Jeez
^flag
Hey, Coot! Ornery is just a prime example of the folks that you'd find yourself associating with over at the UIL. Refreshing thought, isn't it! z^
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^flag
Hey, Coot! Ornery is just a prime example of the folks that you'd find yourself associating with over at the UIL. Refreshing thought, isn't it! z^
Man I sure hope not Arbitrator! But - there's usually one (or two) in every crowd. Have a great day.
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Doc,
what photo did you use in your 'registration'?
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Doc,
what photo did you use in your 'registration'?
I believe it was the bikini cut, tight fitting version that was posted a few years ago. ;D
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Doc,
what photo did you use in your 'registration'?
Yours LOL
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Doc,
what photo did you use in your 'registration'?
i believe it was the crew photo of him with his 2 "flanks"
(http://s4.faceinhole.com/10/3/7/11b867da37a361d4.jpg)
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Holy Toledo!!!!!
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See what happens when you play hookie from one of my clinics? ? I have spies everywhere!
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LMAO Halt! HAMMERZEIT! :o
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Some visuals are simply just not needed.
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LOL 8] eAt& deadhorse: tiphat: :bOW ^TD ^talk ^no ^good ^flag yEs: pray:; ::) >:D
And the crowd Cheers... pi1eOn LOL eAt& :( P_S ^TD tiphat: ^talk :bOW
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What was asked to UIL supporters that was not answered? Or were your questions directed towards someone specific? I'm probably not the best official in the chapter - guarantee i'm not - but there are a bunch I respect a great deal that are very good - several work college also - that have registered UIL.
I'm still looking for a logical reason why the UIL is going to be so much better than TASO. All I get is that TASO is a mess. Whoopee...i haven't seen anything from UIL that indicates it will be different. And with it being a one-man show, well, that sounds like trouble. So, convince me with good, sound reasoning. I am listening...
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Mustang - I can't speak for other - but I have posted my reasons I feel UIL would be better - I've done it twice in two separate threads. I don't think repeating it here (its kinda long) would serve much of a purpose. I will try to put the link to my previous posts regarding your question - I'm not very good at stuff like that so it might take me asking some folks how to tomorrow.
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Mustang - I can't speak for other - but I have posted my reasons I feel UIL would be better - I've done it twice in two separate threads. I don't think repeating it here (its kinda long) would serve much of a purpose. I will try to put the link to my previous posts regarding your question - I'm not very good at stuff like that so it might take me asking some folks how to tomorrow.
Your previous:
I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name. But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth. These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:
1. It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word. We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities. It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football. I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.
2. Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by. Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material. Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing. It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.
3. Oversee better allocation of playoff games. It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd. My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.
4. The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority. Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money. If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position. I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them. If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.
5. Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General. Baseball threatening strike. Fill in the blanks. I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state. I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.
6. Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it. Getting any info from this site is very difficult. I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary. TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating? I'm willing to give UIL a chance.
Again - just my reasons.
Cooter
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Cooter,
Kudos on presenting a logical argument. I missed the post previously - thanks to TxMike for finding it. You are right, Ornery1 does the UIL group an injustice, as do 99% of the ones i hear from. You are the 1st to make a rational argument.
I can't say I disagree with you in principle. However, I don't think that UIL and TT will do a better job. When the whole thing started with TASO/UIL, I was neutral. But as I continue to watch how UIL is handling this, I am developing a really bad taste for them.
I see them as a one-man show with little regard for anyone who would dare disagree with them. I already work for one man like that, and have no desire to add another in my life.
Do I believe that TASO is the best organization? No. Do I think UIL will improve the situation? No. Do I believe a TRUE UIL/TASO partnership would be best? Yes. Do I think it will happen? No.
I think the writing is on the wall, however, for the end of TASO and the start of officiating in the UIL. I will not register by November 1, but I most likely will register to continue officiating next year, and give it an honest shot. But, I would caution you and all other UIL supporters to be wary of the "pie-in-the-sky" promises from UIL.
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Do I believe that TASO is the best organization? No.
What expectations do you have of TASO that have not been met?
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Cooter,
Kudos on presenting a logical argument. I missed the post previously - thanks to TxMike for finding it. You are right, Ornery1 does the UIL group an injustice, as do 99% of the ones i hear from. You are the 1st to make a rational argument.
I can't say I disagree with you in principle. However, I don't think that UIL and TT will do a better job. When the whole thing started with TASO/UIL, I was neutral. But as I continue to watch how UIL is handling this, I am developing a really bad taste for them.
I see them as a one-man show with little regard for anyone who would dare disagree with them. I already work for one man like that, and have no desire to add another in my life.
Do I believe that TASO is the best organization? No. Do I think UIL will improve the situation? No. Do I believe a TRUE UIL/TASO partnership would be best? Yes. Do I think it will happen? No.
I think the writing is on the wall, however, for the end of TASO and the start of officiating in the UIL. I will not register by November 1, but I most likely will register to continue officiating next year, and give it an honest shot. But, I would caution you and all other UIL supporters to be wary of the "pie-in-the-sky" promises from UIL.
I absolutely agree with you that Timmons is the wrong man at the wrong time. I do not see any resolution between TASO and UIL with him in charge. I hope he his fired - but, I stand by my decision at this time.
Thanks for the response - i enjoy the opportunity to dialogue on the subject and I respect your opinion.
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TXMike- I have been officiating only 5 seasons now. When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing. I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials. I have been proactive in this area, however, in that I tell my assigning secretary that I refuse to work with certain members that are absolutely horrible, which, in my opinion, is one of the most effective ways to hold an official accountable, though a majority of members will not do this.
i think the website is fairly useless.
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response.
Having said all that, I am sure we are better off with TASO than with UIL, though a true partnership would be better. I do appreciate that we have an organization for officials, by officials, and that they are a good advocacy source for us. I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
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TXMike- I have been officiating only 5 seasons now. When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing. I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials. I have been proactive in this area, however, in that I tell my assigning secretary that I refuse to work with certain members that are absolutely horrible, which, in my opinion, is one of the most effective ways to hold an official accountable, though a majority of members will not do this.
i think the website is fairly useless.
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response.
Having said all that, I am sure we are better off with TASO than with UIL, though a true partnership would be better. I do appreciate that we have an organization for officials, by officials, and that they are a good advocacy source for us. I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
You are correct in what you say. All chapters have the same problem with weak officials and it is a numbers game. Sometimes smaller chapters have to used those guys. Chapters need to do a better job of policing themselves and neither TASO, UIL, the courts or anyone else can do it. It must be done on a local level with oversight from the parent organization.
TASO has been slipping for the last few years and I blame that on leadership. Now that that leadership has changed, I expect a huge upgrade in quality at TASO. I am one of those that thinks TASO football should have been separate all along.
We should have been proactive in background checks, TASO should have slapped down the basketball revolt in Amarillo and the baseball strike. They should also have been more forceful with UIL on issues of pay, facilities for officials, administrators at games, etc. Although a lot of this is because we as members did not inform TASO that we had to dress 5 officials in a 4'x6' room with no lockers and no shower. That school X did not have an administrator present. So in that respect I blame ourselves for some of the problems.
It has been a fun ride and I hope it will continue, although I am not optomistic.
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When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing.... I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials. ......i think the website is fairly useless....
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response.
..... I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Information and training availability were historically left to the Chapters. Some have obviously done better than others. We are trying now to take a more centralized approach so that guys in those chapters that have not make this a priority have other places to turn to. We are doing a lot of it right here through this forum.
"Accountability" is the million dollar word with a near million dollar price tag if it is to be done correctly. We do not, nor does UIL, have the resources to set up a valid, reliable, thorough, accountability system. The money and personnel required to set up such a system for 15,000 officials makes it a non-starter. The best semblance of such a system is just what you mentioned, guys acting on their own to refuse to work with folks that just do not belong on the field. If nobody will work with them, the Chapters would be forced NOT to put them on the field.
The website is reportedly being transitioned to a new provider and hopefully it will be a more useful tool for folks in the future.
Finally, we have to remember when we are talking about the "TASO office" it is a very very small operation of paid staff. They may be overwhelmed at times and unable to respond quickly to inquiries. But then again, what would you need from them that you could not get from your local Chapter? The true strength of TASO has always been the unpaid folks who step up to do things on their own time and with their own resources. UIL is banking on them still doing that under the auspices of UIL. Perhaps there are some who will but I know quite a few of us who will not do anything for TT.
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Rick and Mike - very valid points.
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I think there needs to be a firm distinction drawn between those that support the UiL and their position and those that refuse to let politics and BS interfere with an advocation that they enjoy.
I have already seen the term "scab" thrown out as a label for anyone who wishes to uphold their commitment for this season. That is about as positive as the UIL troll here in this forum.
I have not, at this time, registered with the UiL. I agree with mustang, the further this goes, the more I dislike what the UIL is doing. I was really looking forward to the "joint" statement as I thought it would go a long way to quell the vocal minority on both sides of the arguement, but as we have seen, that doesn't appear to be forthcoming anytime soon.
As far as the new lawsuit goes, I wouldn't hold your breath, I am not a lawyer, but given the fact that registration is "free" for now and your chapter can remain a TASO chapter, I can't see anyway that we as officials or TASO are immediately "injured" by this registration process. Is it silly that we have to do it this season during the season, absolutely, but I would think that there would have to be more to get any further TRO due to the changes that UIL has made since the original lawsuit was filed, that's just my opinion and is certainly not worth a whole lot in the legal arena.
If nothing else the next month will definitely be interesting.
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I agree, the accountability buzz-word is a big one, and what does it really mean, will it mean the same thing in Football, that it does in Basketball, that it does in Baseball, etc?
From talking to an officer in the local basketball UIL chapter, he stated that only two officials were summoned to Austin this past season, for what, I am not sure, who represented them, I am not sure, and who paid for that, I am not sure.
I think that if you think that little buzz word will get folks off the field that don't need to be there, I think you are reading too much into that. As mike stated, there are simply not the reasources to even remotely get into evaluation and grading of officials around the state, the coaches cards are a joke, typically they are almost always biased as to who won and who lost and I have seen, as I am sure you all have, downgrades for things that coaches "thought" were rules.
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Accountablilty needs to be handled locally. Schools have the power to scratch an official and so do officials. As someone stated, if enough people scratch an official he won't be able to work any games. I serve on the board in my chapter and any complaints we get from coaches or other officials we investigate them thoroughly. TASO or UIL will never be able to get involved in these type of issues. We have suspended and even removed officials before who did not do a good enough job representing our chapter. TASO doesn't need to get involved unless it is a major issue such as soliciatation. TASO has taken action against those who were ratted out for solicitation and I know that one of them is likely the troll that is active on this site.
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After reading some of these posts, I have a better understanding of how the accountability should work. I do like the idea that un-qualified officials should be handled locally, as opposed to traveling to Austin or having a conference call with Austin. But, members should be a little more diligent in talking to the assigners and/or chapter brass about officials that should not be on the field. I guess that is something more chapters need to get more involved in.
I have never liked the implied definition of "accountability" when used in conjunction with UIL. To me, this has the connotation of being dragged to Austin at one's own expense to face a disgruntled coach that doesn't know how to coach, and having the stack decked against the official, meaning guilty until proven innocent. I am glad, however, that the conversation of taking more responsibility of removing sad-sack officials from the field has been more prevalent. I am tired of being embarrassed by "veteran" officials. :-[
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I have never liked the implied definition of "accountability" when used in conjunction with UIL. To me, this has the connotation of being dragged to Austin at one's own expense to face a disgruntled coach that doesn't know how to coach, and having the stack decked against the official, meaning guilty until proven innocent. :-[
[/quote]
This is exactly what we face if the UIL is allowed to pursue this course. Haled to Austin at your expense? No defense? No rules? No due process? No one to appeal to? No one answerable for the decision? And good news -- UIL has sovereign immunity -- so if TT, or someone else, decides that you are no loner allowed to be registered (call games), you have absolutely no recourse.
Why again would anyone what to sign up with the UIL????
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I think you guys are all confusing competency with accountability. Sub par officials are always going to be a problem for the chapters to deal with, competency is a chapter issue. Accountability is answering to a body with disciplinary power as to why you made that call? Why did you remove that coach? "Accountability" is ear candy to lure coaches into the fold, give them something from their friends on Manor Rd. Keep them in line as they worry about their games in week 10. "Accountability" is to make basketball and baseball coaches happy.
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If my ability to properly judge a play has peaked and I am incorrectly seeing the plays as they actually happen, how is going to Austin going help me improve my ability to judge a play? Unless there are some issues where there is evidence that an official is purposely doing stuff to satisfy his own agenda, then he needs to be removed altogether and it shouldn't even reach the level of him having to go to Austin.
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I rewatched the sermon in Houston and the only "accountability" that was discussed was if an official tossed a coach (auto trip to Austin) for arguing a call where the official applied a rule incorrectly.
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I just went to Youtube and pulled up some of TT's grandstanding. All I can say is, after watching that ego-feeding session, I will NOT support the UIL. That guy is a grandstanding, bragging, egotistical, power-hungry, bullheaded blow-hard. What an arrogant piece of crap. I need to go watch some My Name is Earl to get that ego-freak out of my mind....
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Hey...here's an idea! How about forming a review panel and having the coach who is ejected write up a sworn statment and fax it in. There is also this thing called video streaming where people can sit in front of a webcam and their image and their voice can be sent over the internet.
Sending a coach to Austin in this day and age is arcane and stupid. If a coach gets tossed...review the facts and suspend him for a game or two and let him move on. Who cares about having their name published in the stupid Leaguer magazine that only goes to schools.
The UIL is a bureaucracy. A state run governmental organization that will never be as efficient or friendly as one that is run and funded by members.
That is reason enough to fight this takeover.
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What a novel idea! Technology....hmmm :!# :!#
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To: Interested Parties
From: UIL Athletic Department
Subject: UIL Free Registration of Sports Officials
Just received this unsolicited email from UIL. "We really mean it this time!!!! We're gonna tell your mamma!"
Date: October 1, 2010
The attached letter is a summary of a meeting between TASO and the UIL concerning the online free registration of sports officials for UIL contests.
Please review the attachment concerning the November 1, 2010 implementation of the rule change requiring UIL member schools to utilize officials registered with UIL for their contests. Officials desiring to officiate UIL contests must be registered with UIL prior to officiating those contests.
On November 1, 2010 the new Constitution and Contest Rules section 1204 (officials fee schedule) for 2010-11 school year goes into effect. This may be found by accessing the UIL website (www.uiltexas.org) under sports officials tab. The fee schedule for each sport may be found on their specific sports page.
Information will be sent early next week to allow all UIL member schools access to view and verify a sports officials’ registration status.
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I guess something is broke there. I am not getting the UIL stuff anymore.
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To: Interested Parties
From: UIL Athletic Department
Subject: UIL Free Registration of Sports Officials
Just received this unsolicited email from UIL. "We really mean it this time!!!! We're gonna tell your mamma!"
Information will be sent early next week to allow all UIL member schools access to view and verify a sports officials’ registration status.
Last week I received a check for a game earlier this season. The school, which I've worked a lot, mailed it to the address of a house I sold in 2007. Not sure how/why it was still forwarded to me, but it was. Anyways, how quickly do you think schools are going to "jump" on board with having another task to do, like check registration status's???
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Apparently the RGV just completed their "picks" for the 2d half of the season and while UIL registration was apparently discussed during the event, the schools still picked without regard to registered or not.
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I guess something is broke there. I am not getting the UIL stuff anymore.
Unfortunately I am even after sending them 3 emails telling them to take me off their friggin list.
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To: Interested Parties
From: UIL Athletic Department
Subject: UIL Free Registration of Sports Officials
Just received this unsolicited email from UIL. "We really mean it this time!!!! We're gonna tell your mamma!"
Date: October 1, 2010
The attached letter is a summary of a meeting between TASO and the UIL concerning the online free registration of sports officials for UIL contests.
Please review the attachment concerning the November 1, 2010 implementation of the rule change requiring UIL member schools to utilize officials registered with UIL for their contests. Officials desiring to officiate UIL contests must be registered with UIL prior to officiating those contests.
On November 1, 2010 the new Constitution and Contest Rules section 1204 (officials fee schedule) for 2010-11 school year goes into effect. This may be found by accessing the UIL website (www.uiltexas.org) under sports officials tab. The fee schedule for each sport may be found on their specific sports page.
Information will be sent early next week to allow all UIL member schools access to view and verify a sports officials’ registration status.
Could you tell me again, why is it not a .gov site?
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can you post the attachment?
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The attachment is what was posted on Monday this week. Go back earlier in this thread and you will see it. It is UIL's take on what happened at the meeting with TASO
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Thanks, the October 1 date implied to me there was a new one.
It's a privilege to live in a place where we are afforded the luxury of this debate. I still pick the democracy over the monarchy though.
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Apparently the RGV just completed their "picks" for the 2d half of the season and while UIL registration was apparently discussed during the event, the schools still picked without regard to registered or not.
The Varsity Secretary in my chapter has announced he will not assign any crews to work week 10 and beyond that are not registered with UIL. Will your (or any others that wouldn't mind responding) chapter allow you to keep the week 10 game if you are not registered?
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The Varsity Secretary in my chapter has announced he will not assign any crews to work week 10 and beyond that are not registered with UIL. Will your (or any others that wouldn't mind responding) chapter allow you to keep the week 10 game if you are not registered?
What chapter is that, if you don't mind? No one is taking away my week 10 game if I am not registered.
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What chapter is that, if you don't mind? No one is taking away my week 10 game if I am not registered.
I gotta be kinda careful with that Dallas - I haven't been overly flattering to the Varsity Secretary on this site based on his crew getting assigned most playoff games - I'll PM you.
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What chapter is that, if you don't mind? No one is taking away my week 10 game if I am not registered.
^flag
I totally concur, DallasLJ! Week 10 games for the vast majority of us are already contracted out. To that end, the schools are already obligated and if they choose to break them, would have to pay the contracted officials all applicable game fees and expenses. Either that, or they could forward the bills for such to the UIL since the UIL was the non-contracting party who issued the explicit instructions to the contracting school districts to break and renege on those valid contracts! If this happens, then it will well lay the groundwork for a plethora of breach of contract suits against the UIL and the contracting school districts. I would have to think that the UIL is not quite ready for that right now! z^
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I sure would like to see TASO take a stand and send out an advisory that would specifically say...do not register and force the lock out.
If they leave it like it is now, many will register in the last week because they will be fearful of being the only one left on the island.
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I sure would like to see TASO take a stand and send out an advisory that would specifically say...do not register and force the lock out.
If they leave it like it is now, many will register in the last week because they will be fearful of being the only one left on the island.
I will be there with Gilligan! ;D
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Based upon the communication coming out of my chapter leadership, they are making plans to adjust schedules and cover week 10 games only with UIL registered officials. They would like for us to let them know as early as possible if we don't plan to register to help them facilitate the adjustments.
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Based upon the communication coming out of my chapter leadership, they are making plans to adjust schedules and cover week 10 games only with UIL registered officials. They would like for us to let them know as early as possible if we don't plan to register to help them facilitate the adjustments.
Well I am sorry but the deadline is not until 11-1-10. They can wait till then.......................
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Well......let me complicate this a bit more.....the deadline is NOT Nov 1 the way I read it. The way I read it, we have to be registered before any game AFTER nov 1 so the real deadline is KO on game day
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Well would that not screw up their little scheme.................................. >:D
Another thought, even if all of the officials registered on 10-31-10, there is still not compliance with 1204. 1204 says every local chapter must file a copy of the bylaws dictating how they will enforce UIL discipline. There is not a football chapter in the state that has done so.
Since the chapters are not compliant with 1204, if I am not allowed to work my games, I may sue Timmons individually as he is the one in charge of the registration.
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Well would that not screw up their little scheme.................................. >:D
Another thought, even if all of the officials registered on 10-31-10, there is still not compliance with 1204. 1204 says every local chapter must file a copy of the bylaws dictating how they will enforce UIL discipline. There is not a football chapter in the state that has done so.
Since the chapters are not compliant with 1204, if I am not allowed to work my games, I may sue Timmons individually as he is the one in charge of the registration.
^flag
Makes perfect sense to me! If he gets enough of these suits filed against him , King Charles' :!# Dancing Monkey will truly feel like the proverbial UIL Whipping Boy! z^
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HA! I just completed my registration, or, should i say, JOHN GRISHAM completed his registration?
tiphat:
sucka! oh, and i passed all the stupid quizzes without watching a single video. what good does that do?
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I read on another message board that the UIL is going to close registration after the November 1st deadline and that no other registrations in ANY sports will be accepted for the 2010-2011 school year.
Can anyone on here confirm this. This would be a great question for Timmons in Houston next Monday.
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Ima Dumass just registered with the UIL, too.
LOL
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heh heh 2 of 600+ members have joined from our chapter. nice! yEs:
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Your chapter might get a rash of transferees from other Chapters if that keeps up