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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on June 05, 2012, 04:20:25 AM

Title: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on June 05, 2012, 04:20:25 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/06/nfl-to-begin-hiring-replacement-referees/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/06/nfl-to-begin-hiring-replacement-referees/1)

Wonderful...even our own brethren are buying into the argument that officials can cause player injury.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: James on June 05, 2012, 05:46:33 AM
I have injured a player once. Equivalent of JV game here and I was tracking a pass and run as LJ when I collided with a player who had stepped onto the field in excitement. I managed to 'tuck and roll', he landed badly and was out for the rest of the game.
Most of the time I hit players as U (well, I get hit by them), and it is more of a bounce  hEaDbAnG than a crunch, but I had a full head of steam going on that one.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: clearwall on June 05, 2012, 08:58:33 AM
Im kind of curious what the refstripes community would do if you got one of these calls? I think i'd be pretty terrified, not because of the enormity of the offer, but because of the repercussions. I mean, after '91, how many of the replacement guys ever got another shot at the league? Did they even get a shot at major CFB afterward? Officiating is such a tight-knit group, I would be worried I'd be blacklisted as soon as this thing got resolved and my shot would be forever...well, SHOT.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: HLinNC on June 05, 2012, 09:11:54 AM
Nothing quite like being called "scab" for the rest of your career.  I'm sure there are those that will roll the dice.

For me it's a moot point.  Kind of like planning on what I would do with the Super Duper Powerball.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: rickref on June 05, 2012, 09:13:03 AM
If you aspire to call college you are done if you got in.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Boodle on June 05, 2012, 04:58:08 PM
Guidance from the NFL is that they are looking for officials who have passed the window of opportunity.  They are not considering guys who may still get into college or NFL.  They are interested in us old farts who could still call and not have to worry about the reproccusions of being a scab.

Heard this in a clinic from a guy on the NFL staff.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: JasonTX on June 05, 2012, 08:14:52 PM
Guidance from the NFL is that they are looking for officials who have passed the window of opportunity.  They are not considering guys who may still get into college or NFL.  They are interested in us old farts who could still call and not have to worry about the reproccusions of being a scab.

Heard this in a clinic from a guy on the NFL staff.

That's what I heard as well.  Retired college officials is what I heard they were after.  I agree with Rickref, your college career would be pretty well done if you go while currently working college.  With as many current NFL officials being college supervisors you'd be axed for sure.

With that said, in reading that article, I was kind of offended by the article quoting the NFLRA as saying that any replacements are basically incapable of officiating at that level.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: cincybearcat on June 06, 2012, 11:07:55 AM
it's all just negotiating in public...I wouldn't take any offense to it
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: fbrefga on June 15, 2012, 04:39:05 PM
I heard it directly from Ron Baynes that he is tasked with recruiting replacement officials.  He said the league office wants to be prepared in case a strike occurs.  Baynes also said that the games would not be a week-to-week schedule for replacement officials.  He said that replacement officials would be guaranteed eight games.  At $2K per game, the math is easy!

So here is my question:  If you were no longer working college football (or close to the end of your college career) and eight games were guaranteed, would you accept an offer to become a replacement official?  Does $16K with paid travel and a per diem make a difference?

I understand the notion of being labeled a scab, but at what point does one put that aside and say "I got a chance of a lifetime"?
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: MonsterRef on July 01, 2012, 03:01:58 PM
Does anyone know anyone who is close to giving it a try? Or accepted the offer.  I wondering what the NFL is offering the guys who cross.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on July 01, 2012, 06:25:25 PM
I know of a former college and UFL Umpire who was hired. No idea what the compensation will be.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Joe Stack on July 15, 2012, 07:44:25 PM
Quote
the league office wants to be prepared in case a strike occurs.

The NFL has locked out the officials until they reach an agreement, so there won't be a strike. Some would say no difference, but I would bet the NFLRA would probably agree to continue working under the terms of the previous contract. If that is the case and the NFL has refused, the NFL is in the wrong here. However, the NFL is the league and has the right to make their own rules.

As far as how this will work, the NFL is giving assurances to replacement officials that they will be paid for X number of games -- most likely something like 8 and perhaps as many as 10 games. So if the lockout ends, which it probably will sooner than later, the replacement officials will get a minimum amount. On the other hand, this could be a strong indication that the NFL has made a final offer and will stay with that. Plus, since this is a lockout, if the early games don't go well and the NFL wants to make a PR move, they can lift the lockout, invite the regular officials back at the previous rate (like said above), and put the ball back in the NFLRA's court. They would either have to accept or strike. A strike would be a huge PR risk for them.

Bottom line: the NFL is holding most of the cards and the NFLRA better be careful about hoping the replacement officials fail.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on July 17, 2012, 09:53:41 AM
Plus, since this is a lockout, if the early games don't go well and the NFL wants to make a PR move, they can lift the lockout, invite the regular officials back at the previous rate (like said above), and put the ball back in the NFLRA's court. They would either have to accept or strike. A strike would be a huge PR risk for them.

Bottom line: the NFL is holding most of the cards and the NFLRA better be careful about hoping the replacement officials fail.

If the replacements fail I don't see how that's not good for the NFLRA.  It proves their value.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: schube on July 24, 2012, 02:36:28 PM
There were two guys from our conference that took the call. one has not worked a game in college yet, but got the call. Both are yong guys who still have a lot left in college ball.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on July 24, 2012, 05:05:00 PM
Both are yong guys who still have a lot left in college ball.
  Probably not anymore......
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ETXZebra on July 24, 2012, 05:14:11 PM
That was certainly true last time!
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: cincybearcat on August 06, 2012, 02:47:12 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8239455/woman-set-officiate-nfl-game-first-time
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 06, 2012, 05:01:14 PM
Looks like the gestapo has decide some of you boys went too far.   :sTiR:

I guess even if you don't seriously have an issue with the replacement refs it is still not accceptable to joke about it?

Anyway...I wish all of them the best. They each made decisions that I suspect they know full well will mean to their futures, rightly or wrongly.  If they do well, it validates  what many of us have said for years..this ain't rocket science.  There are many many officials who could ref well at the major college and pro level who for a variety of reasons will never get the chance.  Sure they will make mistakes but look at last year's Super Bowl and at the NCAA National Championship game and tell me no mistakes were made. 

Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 06, 2012, 09:12:04 PM
Looks like the gestapo has decide some of you boys went too far.   :sTiR:



Oh for crying out loud, this is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 06, 2012, 09:33:41 PM
No doubt they will do this on every game they can...the NFLRA guys are grading the replacements. 
I wonder if this means they will be releasing the League's evaluations of their own guys after they get back to work?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/06/nflra-lists-officiating-errors-from-hall-of-fame-game/


NFLRA lists officiating errors from Hall of Fame game

 Posted by Mike Florio on August 6, 2012, 6:05 PM EDT
 
And the NFLRA was taking notes.
 
And the NFLRA has now publicized those notes, summarizing the mistakes made by the crew assigned to the Hall of Fame game.
 
“Professional NFL officials are graded after every game,” NFLRA counsel Michael Arnold said in a release.  ”Several of the NFL Referee Association’s officials who grade for Division-I college conferences did a review of the Hall of Fame Game working from a recording of the television feed.  Normally, there would be an opportunity to also view the ‘Coaches’ Tape, which provides two views of every play, but multiple costly errors were still evident.  Numerous errors in field mechanics, game administration and even the coin toss negatively impacted the quality of the game.”
 
The NFLRA then identified 10 significant errors, from the non-call of a Saints touchdown to the failure to flag Cardinals left tackle Levi Brown for holding in the end zone to a failure to call a touchback on a punt downed inside the Saints’ one yard line to a failure to flag a helmet-to-helmet hit on a defenseless punt returner.
 
It’ll be interesting to see whether the NFLRA continues to grade the preseason games in which the replacement officials work.
 
And, yes, the regular officials make plenty of mistakes.  But that doesn’t mean we should ignore the mistakes by the men (and one woman) who necessarily aren’t the best of the best.
 
If, after all, they were among the best of the best, they’d currently be locked out by the league.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ECILLJ on August 07, 2012, 10:46:41 AM
The NFLRA is opening Pandora's Box. Their public grading of replacement officials is in direct conflict with the professional oath that officials never publicly criticize the work of other officials.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 07, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
The NFLRA is opening Pandora's Box. Their public grading of replacement officials is in direct conflict with the professional oath that officials never publicly criticize the work of other officials.
Oath? Seriously? Do they have to uphold the Constitution, too?
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: HLinNC on August 07, 2012, 01:53:37 PM
No, but it is an accepted tenant of our avocation that we not publicly criticize other officials.    Be they considered scabs, opportunists, or just out kicking their coverage, they are hired by the league to do the job.  Maybe they would have never sniffed at the pro game- we, for the most part,  don't know.  I assume that  Arena league guys at least may have one day had a shot.

When this is settled, and it eventually will be, can you imagine the outcry of the NFLRA if their weekly grades they receive were to be released by the NFL office?  How many times have each of us been crewed with an official we might not particularly care for or didn't respect yet did our best to get through the game unscathed.

I am not and probably never, ever will be a member of the NFLRA so I have no strong opinion about the issue and I understand why they would.  But I do believe in fairness and being even handed.

Were there some awkward moments Sunday night?  Oh yes.  Will I have an awkward moment or two in my first scrimmage tomorrow?  More than likely.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: El Macman on August 07, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
No, but it is an accepted tenant...

Methinks you mean "tenet."
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Rulesman on August 07, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
We will keep this discussion professional. These are replacement officials. No more; no less.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: JasonTX on August 07, 2012, 10:49:33 PM
I can imagine the outcry if the NFL decides that they like these "new" officials and decide to hire them full time.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 08, 2012, 08:00:45 AM
We will keep this discussion professional. These are replacement officials. No more; no less.

Professionally speaking, they are much less. One man's opinion that I'm confident will be deleted.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 08, 2012, 08:25:23 AM
Professionally speaking, they are much less. One man's opinion that I'm confident will be deleted.
Possibly not. Your post demonstrates that it's possible to express this opinion without using inflammatory language.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Rulesman on August 08, 2012, 08:29:20 AM
...One man's opinion that I'm confident will be deleted.
Not as long as you keep your opinion professional and in good taste. The name calling (you know the word I'm referencing) is what will get you whacked.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 08, 2012, 08:39:05 AM
gotcha, but Ghestapo is OK.  Noted.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Rulesman on August 08, 2012, 09:04:56 AM
gotcha, but Ghestapo is OK.  Noted.
Don't press your luck.  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 08, 2012, 09:25:13 AM
Uncle, you win.  :bOW
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 08, 2012, 12:10:30 PM
Im kind of curious what the refstripes community would do if you got one of these calls? I think i'd be pretty terrified, not because of the enormity of the offer, but because of the repercussions. I mean, after '91, how many of the replacement guys ever got another shot at the league? Did they even get a shot at major CFB afterward? Officiating is such a tight-knit group, I would be worried I'd be blacklisted as soon as this thing got resolved and my shot would be forever...well, SHOT.

I don't think you should be so worried about being blacklisted as you should worry about screwing a fellow official who is in a labor dispute.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 08, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
That's "Gestapo", Sky King.  As long as you don't call someone "A crust discharged from and covering a healing wound"  you will be fine.

But boy is it getting ugleee elsewhere....
http://wegotthiscovered.com/news/nfl-debut-full-slate-replacement-refs/


Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 08, 2012, 01:43:04 PM
Very funny article Mike, thanks.  I really like this quote from Mike Periera, former NFL Head of Officials : 

“They’ve tried to say that (the referee, Name omittted by me) , who worked the (Hall of Fame) game, was a BCS official, that he worked in the Big Ten,” Pereira told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. “He didn’t work in the Big Ten. He’s not been a major college official. I don’t think the NFL is going to say that he actually got released midway through the last lingerie football league season as a referee. I don’t think the league is going to put that out.”


 LOL
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 08, 2012, 02:17:22 PM
I guess Periera doesn't mind expressing his loyalties, and isn't expecting another job with the league. ;)
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 08, 2012, 02:48:11 PM
As if they could match FOX Sports offer
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 09, 2012, 04:59:18 AM
League has released crew lists for this weekend's games

http://www.footballzebras.com/2012/08/06/3482/
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: VALJ on August 09, 2012, 10:25:46 AM
Once of my association's alums is working the Steelers game.  We're all very excited for him.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: bama_stripes on August 09, 2012, 11:17:26 AM
Our state rules interpreter is an alternate.  Not sure how I feel about that.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mishatx on August 09, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
I'm surprised at the number of names I recognize.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 09, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
Our state asst. commissioner and former chair of the NFHS football committee is working the Steelers game, and a Cleveland muckety-muck is on the Browns-Lions game.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TampaSteve on August 09, 2012, 11:50:24 AM
That site keeps blowing up my IE.  Can someone copy/paste here?
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Rulesman on August 09, 2012, 11:58:39 AM
I'm surprised at the number of names I recognize.
Me, too.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: zebrablog on August 09, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
Any help identifying some of the people on the list is greatly appreciated. The league is only offering background information on a limited basis.

Thanks,
Ben
footballzebras.com
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 09, 2012, 02:13:05 PM
That site keeps blowing up my IE.  Can someone copy/paste here?
Better yet, get a real browser — you know, teach a man to fish...

https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/ (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/)
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: VALJ on August 09, 2012, 02:45:48 PM
Better yet, get a real browser — you know, teach a man to fish...

https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/ (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/)

 ^good

I thought about making that comment..  :)
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Osric Pureheart on August 09, 2012, 03:46:07 PM
Balls to Google.

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mishatx on August 09, 2012, 09:12:11 PM
Me, too.

I mostly thought it would spread out more.  I think at least 5 guys on that list are in my chapter, and I think at least 4 of those guys worked on the same DIII crew last year.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: bossman72 on August 09, 2012, 09:26:26 PM
Balls to Google.

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

I'll take either any day before I take IE.

I think Firefox 14 is blowing up.  I just converted to Chrome and it's much faster!
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: JasonTX on August 10, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
My question is how did the NFL get the contact information for these guys.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 10, 2012, 05:12:46 AM
UIL gave it to them     :sTiR:
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ECILLJ on August 10, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
The NFLRA made a big mistake when they dangled the word strike back in the Spring. You can't blame the owners for preparing for a season without the NFLRA. The NFLRA should not have played that card until negotiations were at a standstill and the season had begun. Now, everyone loses.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 10, 2012, 12:03:19 PM
NFL Lockout – Should You Work?
Posted by Karl Richins on Jun 6, 2012 in Blog

With the declared Lockout of the NFL Officials, is this your big chance to work an NFL game or two?  You’ve dreamed about it for years and have always wanted your chance, even if it is for a single game, so is now that opportunity?
On June 4th, the NFL announced the lockout and to move forward with its plans to hire replacement officials.  In essence, the league stated it would be looking to hire recently retired officials or perhaps current ones who would be qualified to work professional games.  The league will look to hire officials from anywhere but the BCS conferences because those officials are run by NFL officials, and the NFL doesn’t want to put the BCS officials in an awkward situation.  Ya think?
Now, I’m no expert here, and I plainly admit, I do not know all the details of the negotiations with the NFL and NFLRA (nor do some of the NFL officials I spoke with), but I will say, historically lockouts are about posturing.  It will eventually work itself out and life will return to normal.  I’ve always thought of unions to be “Big” and powerful, meaning “thousands” of workers, not between one and two hundred workers (not counting retired NFL officials).  How much strength is there in that number?  Another thought I have had about unions and negotiations, do the union leaders represent “their” agenda, or the agenda of everyone they are appointed to represent?  There is NO way possible those two agendas are identical.  So, what do they do?  This post is not about their negotiations because I don’t know the facts and what is more important, I DO NOT CARE!
What this post IS about, is you, the potential replacement official.  I remember back in 2001 when there was a lockout and I was a new official in the Mountain West Conference.  I received that letter in the mail from the NFL asking if I was available.  I also remember public veiled threats from current NFL officials including Ed Hochuli, and I remember attention and pleas of solidarity from other NFL officials.  All of a sudden, that “college guy” was important to the NFL guy.  Back then, there were very few NFL officials working as Coordinators of Officials in college conferences.  Now, it is becoming increasingly the trend and the relationship between the college officials and the NFL officials has become a bit cozy.  There is that aspect of awkwardness for replacement officials working for current NFL officials, but I think more than that, I think the NFL will stay away from looking at BCS officials to become replacement officials because that is where the majority of their candidate pool is and they don’t dare muddy that water.
In 2001, I declined the opportunity for a “one and done” NFL experience and have no regrets.  So let me now give you my 10 reasons why I feel you should decline the offer as well, if you are requested to work:
1-If the NFL is not going to look at BCS officials, that probably means the league considers BCS conferences to contain the majority of its candidates.  So isn’t it a little insulting to basically say, “You’re not a candidate to be a real NFL official”, so will you come “pretend” to be one?
2-Ask most of the officials that worked as replacements in 2001 and if they have the courage to admit it they will say you will likely never get that stain out of your shirt for the remainder of your life.  Some of them were my friends and still are, but that particular stain never washes out.
3-If you are currently retired and you are asked to work, whether you went out on good terms or bad terms, do you really want others to put an asterisk next to your name when your name is brought up?  Ever tried to repair a reputation?  Try putting that toothpaste back into the tube.
4-”I’m bitter that the NFL didn’t hire me so I’m working.”  Come on, really?  By working you are rewarding the league that didn’t hire you and pooping on fellow officials with whom you likely did work at one time.
5-”It’s my chance to work a ‘big’ game.”  So that’s what your career is all about?  Not lifetime friends, colleagues, mentors, players, others, etc.  So you choose to stand on the mountain top and admit, “It’s all about me!”  Boy, I’ll bet you are or were fun to have on a crew.
6-”Think of the guaranteed money I can make.”  I honestly cannot believe there are still people in this business that see officiating as a way to make money.  Now, I will admit the NFL officials have that unique opportunity to make that statement, but they earned it to get there, they earn it to stay there, and those of us that do not get that opportunity need to look beyond the money aspect and give something back to this sport rather than always trying to see what we can get.
7-”I’m retired, or I’m never going to work in the NFL anyway, so why not?”  Because we are a family.  When you find out someone else in the restaurant or wherever you are is a fellow football official at whatever level, admit it, you want to say hello and share “hey, whats up?”  And if we are family, and you have to admit that we are, do you think any NFL officials right now who have sons or daughters officiating at the NCAA level, that their son or daughter would work as a replacement official?  Put me down for “I don’t think so.”
8-When we have that bizarre play in a football game and it has several fouls, momentum, impetus, illegal touching and an inadvertent whistle all rolled into one play, what do we do if we can’t figure it out?  “Just do the right thing.”  If you choose to work, you will likely not enjoy the experience because the entire time you know it’s not the right thing to do, plain and simple.
9-Ask yourself, if you were a current NFL official, what would you want a fellow college official to do?  You may be bitter or felt you were wronged by one or two current or past NFL officials.  But becoming a replacement official doesn’t settle the score, you’re not getting even; you’re becoming what you hate, a non-team player.
10-And finally, the above are just rationalizations, pointless justifications, self-absorbed excuses.  Do you really think you can pick up the turd by the clean end?  My advice to you is the same as what I use to tell passerbys when I was a police officer years ago and working a bad traffic accident scene, “Look away there’s nothing to see here, just keep moving.”
Let’s let “them” work this out.  We don’t have a horse in this race.  All I hear from the officials I speak to that work in the NFL is that all they want to do is work.  Let’s not stain our hands on this issue, instead let’s be fans of the NFL and it’s officials, and let them work it out without our outside influence.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ThomasG on August 10, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
You forgot reasons 11-20 (on onward).  Those reasons are the individual reasons each replacement official actually HAS for working these games.  I'm not convinced there are only ten and that you were able to categorize them all into a little nutshell.  Each person has to answer to themselves first.  To believe that their individual reasoning has to include only the items on your list amuses me.

I have no desire to work as a replacement and would not be invited anyway (being only a high school official), but one point that seems to be missing is that these preseason games need to be played and need to be officiated.  The conditioning of the players, the development of the teams and ultimately, the prevention of serious injuries are just three of the reasons why.

The NFLRA lockout would prevent these games from being played and when the two sides get together (as I'm sure they will) at the 11Th hour, there will be a season with the regular officials.  Only, now the players will not have been deprived of a preseason to ramp up for the real thing.

I don't want to see the regular NLF refs standing around as another player gets carried away on the golf cart (and neither do they, I'm sure).

Sure choosing to officiate is a tough decision to make, but SOMEONE  has to do it even if the reasons each individual official puts forth displeases you.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 10, 2012, 04:23:29 PM
You forgot reasons 11-20 (on onward).  Those reasons are the individual reasons each replacement official actually HAS for working these games.  I'm not convinced there are only ten and that you were able to categorize them all into a little nutshell.  Each person has to answer to themselves first.  To believe that their individual reasoning has to include only the items on your list amuses me.

I have no desire to work as a replacement and would not be invited anyway (being only a high school official), but one point that seems to be missing is that these preseason games need to be played and need to be officiated.  The conditioning of the players, the development of the teams and ultimately, the prevention of serious injuries are just three of the reasons why.

The NFLRA lockout would prevent these games from being played and when the two sides get together (as I'm sure they will) at the 11Th hour, there will be a season with the regular officials.  Only, now the players will not have been deprived of a preseason to ramp up for the real thing.

I don't want to see the regular NLF refs standing around as another player gets carried away on the golf cart (and neither do they, I'm sure).

Sure choosing to officiate is a tough decision to make, but SOMEONE  has to do it even if the reasons each individual official puts forth displeases you.

"you" didn't forget anything.  Read the byline....not mine.

Best regards,

Brad
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ThomasG on August 10, 2012, 05:01:53 PM
My apologies.  By the time I got through the whole post, I'd forgotten the byline.  The article was written in the first person, so my response should be (and still is) directed toward THAT person (even though it isn't you).
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on August 10, 2012, 05:19:48 PM
Thomas,

Do you actually think that if no "replacement" refs stepped forward, there would be no preseason games?  The NFL would bring back their regular refs quick time if that were the case, IMO.  Owners wouldn't stand for the lost revenue nor their teams preparation. So "for the good of the players" is not a legitimate reason for taking a job from a fellow official.

Best regards,

Brad
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: JasonTX on August 10, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
What guarantees are in place for the "regular" officials to be "re-hired"?  Some of these "replacements" are pretty darn good and could easily replace ones on strike for a full time spot.  The ones on strike are good but there are many other officials who are just as good, if not better than them.  If the NFL were to have tryouts each year and open up the doors to allow officials to show there stuff, I am sure many veterans would be replaced on a permanant basis.   
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: AFSST on August 11, 2012, 08:20:18 PM
I taped today's Patriots vs Saints game and saw a few problems.  The white hat looks very awkward and can't seem to get the whistle out of his mouth.  The BJ almost got run over on a long pass play.  Too many holding fouls.  IMO, the NFL shouldn't die on this hill.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: rsquare on August 11, 2012, 11:06:59 PM
Driving in from vacation and was listening to Texans/Panthers game.
Announcers from pre game to end tore up "replacement officials".
Supposely bad call for DPI as far as "homer announcers" blasted.
A continuous triade about "replacement officials".
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Sonofanump on August 12, 2012, 03:48:59 PM
The ones on strike are good but there are many other officials who are just as good, if not better than them.

I am not seeing that.

If the NFL were to have tryouts each year and open up the doors to allow officials to show there stuff, I am sure many veterans would be replaced on a permanant basis.   

This I could see, but I'd gather the guys who are NFL worthwhile are not working NFL pre-season, a least not in our area.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: bossman72 on August 13, 2012, 03:38:49 PM
What guarantees are in place for the "regular" officials to be "re-hired"?  Some of these "replacements" are pretty darn good and could easily replace ones on strike for a full time spot. 

Are we watching the same games?
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on August 13, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
I only sporadically watched 3 games over the weekend but nothing glaring jumped out at me.  Yes the R's do not seem as comfortable on the microphone as most NFL R's do but aside from that I saw no glaring issues.   I did not see the NY Giant game where they apparently did not do a Zap 10 at the end of the game and that is troubling, especially since that is a NCAA rule also so should not have had a problem there.  But all in all, they looked like they belonged.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Eastshire on August 16, 2012, 12:03:53 PM
Thomas,

Do you actually think that if no "replacement" refs stepped forward, there would be no preseason games?  The NFL would bring back their regular refs quick time if that were the case, IMO.  Owners wouldn't stand for the lost revenue nor their teams preparation. So "for the good of the players" is not a legitimate reason for taking a job from a fellow official.

Best regards,

Brad

The chance of no one stepping forward to do the games was about the same as the sun rising in the west tomorrow. The NFLRA is counting on the replacements not covering themselves in glory.  We'll see how it works for them.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: zebrablog on August 16, 2012, 03:44:01 PM
The assignments are posted for week 2 of the preseason.

http://www.footballzebras.com/2012/08/15/3778/
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Osric Pureheart on August 16, 2012, 07:51:22 PM
First quarter of Bengals-Falcons saw a phantom defensive hold, a facemask call when the tackler's hand was on the runner's inside front shoulder pad and a cornerback getting physically wrestled to the ground by a reciever as the ball dropped over his head, and then being called for DPI.

This does not look good.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: APG on August 16, 2012, 07:56:43 PM
Not to mention a roughing the passer penalty was announced as a 10 yard penalty...then they only marked off only 13 yards.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TampaSteve on August 17, 2012, 06:56:55 AM
The crew in ATL last night was the crew @NewEngland last week.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on August 17, 2012, 06:58:20 AM
The crew in ATL last night was the crew @NewEngland last week.
Ah, finally a crew with some NFL experience! :D
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: VALJ on August 17, 2012, 10:19:29 AM
The crew in ATL last night was the crew @NewEngland last week.

The alternate was the R in Philly last weekend, IIRC.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on September 02, 2012, 06:41:13 PM
Not a good sign for resolution when lying accusations are flying around.

NFL Memo that came out re this weekend's talks followed by NFLRA response:

NFL -

The NFL's chief attorney, Jeff Pash, issued a memorandum to team CEOs, presidents and general managers on Sunday detailing last week's labor negotations with the referees. ESPN obtained the document in its entirety via email:

 Last Thursday, Friday and Saturday (August 30-31 and September 1), we had a series of discussions with the NFL Referees Association concerning a possible new collective bargaining agreement. The goal was to determine if a new agreement could be in place in time to permit the regular game officials to be on the field for the start of regular season games. Those discussions at various times involved the Commissioner, John Mara, several members of the league staff, and our counsel, Bob Batterman. The officials were represented by Scott Green, the union's president, Jeff Triplette, a member of the union's negotiating committee, and the union's counsel, Mike Arnold.

The discussions began on the afternoon of Wednesday, August 29, when Commissioner Goodell contacted Jeff Triplette to determine the union's position on the status of negotiations. Based on that conversation, the Commissioner advised Mr. Triplette that we would be using replacement officials in the regular season, and Ray Anderson's memo to the clubs was sent shortly thereafter. Later that day, after speaking to other members of the NFLRA leadership, Mr. Triplette offered to come to New York to meet with the Commissioner on Thursday, August 30. Several private discussions took place on Thursday evening and Friday morning, August 31. In the course of discussions on Friday morning, Mr. Triplette quantified the economic gap between the parties as approximately $4 million per year for compensation and retirement benefits combined. The Commissioner advised Mr. Triplette that in order to obtain an agreement this weekend, so that the regular officials could begin to work next week, we would close the deal by agreeing to provide an additional $1 million per year, which could be used to improve either base compensation or our proposal regarding retirement benefits.



Even without this increase, the offer made to the game officials prior to the start of the lockout provided for generous and continuing pay increases. In 2011, the average compensation for a game official was $149,000. Under our last offer, average compensation would have increased to more than $189,000 by 2018, the last year of the proposal we made before the lockout. Officials qualifying for postseason play, or who are referees, would earn even more.



Apart from base compensation, we had offered to institute a new retirement plan, under which officials would participate in a defined contribution/401(k) plan, with proposed contributions of $16,500 in 2012, increasing to more than $22,000 by the end of the deal. And of course officials would retain the full value of any vested benefits earned under the existing defined benefit plan.


The increase offered to settle the labor dispute yesterday could be valued in several ways. Assuming a staff of 120 game officials, an additional $1 million would fund an $8000 increase in the average game official's annual compensation. Alternatively, it would increase the annual defined contribution to an official's retirement account by $8000. If the officials preferred, the additional money could have been divided between base compensation and retirement benefits. But assuming a game official works for 20 years, this proposal could have meant as much as $160,000 in additional compensation or retirement contributions for each official.


We also said that we believed a longer deal was in order and proposed a ten-year term. Mr. Triplette agreed that a longer term was in the interest of the game officials as well. Commissioner Goodell expressly stated that the additional money was being offered to conclude a deal now so the officials could be on the field for the start of the regular season. He said that the officials should not schedule further meetings unless they were prepared to settle on that basis. In other words, the increase in the offer was to settle now - it was not to set a new floor for a new round of negotiations.


Following the discussions on Friday morning, Mr. Triplette spoke to other members of the NFLRA leadership. He then advised us that Messrs. Green and Arnold would join him in New York for further negotiations beginning Saturday morning. To ensure that there was no misunderstanding of our position, the Commissioner spoke to Mr. Triplette on Friday afternoon. In response to a direct question from the Commissioner, Mr. Triplette confirmed that the union was coming to New York to conclude an agreement within the parameters that had been discussed earlier on Friday.


When we convened yesterday morning, the officials immediately did an about-face and made clear that they had no intention of settling within the agreed-upon parameters. Instead, Mr. Green stated that Mr. Triplette had "no authority to make that deal," and that the additional $1 million per year was nowhere near enough to conclude an agreement. Rather than telling us how they would propose to allocate the additional $1 million per year the Commissioner and Mr. Triplette had discussed as the basis for closing out these negotiations, Mr. Green reverted to the union's pre-lockout position, an economic gap of as much as $70 million over the life of the proposed deal. Apart from sharply higher compensation demands, the union's pre-lockout proposal also included a full grandfathering of all officials in the existing defined benefit plan, and a 20 percent increase in the defined pension benefit. For new officials, they proposed a defined contribution retirement plan with an annual contribution of $38,500 per year, while preserving a match on the officials' contributions to their 401(k) plan.


The union's abrupt change in position yesterday morning made it impossible to make any progress toward a prompt settlement. This morning's meeting concluded after less than 90 minutes (most of which was spent by the union representatives in a private caucus). We issued the following public statement after the meeting ended:


"Commissioner Goodell and other NFL staff members concluded three days of talks today with representatives of the NFLRA without reaching an agreement. No further talks are scheduled. We are proceeding with the replacement officials."


 While we will remain available to meet with the NFLRA at any time, absent a substantial change in the union's position, there is no reason to think that further meetings would be productive. Needless to say, we will keep all clubs informed of developments in these negotiations. If any club has questions, please feel free to call either Ray Anderson or me.

NFLRA Response:

The NFL Referees Association released the following statement Sunday afternoon in response to the NFL's memo to teams:
 
After locking out the NFL Officials on June 3 and refusing to negotiate with the NFLRA, the NFL is now engaged in a misinformation campaign. On Sunday, the League sent a Memo to its teams and leaked it to selected media for distribution to the public. It is unfortunate that the League has resorted to providing false and misleading information to its member teams and the media.
 
There was no agreement on Thursday or Friday to do anything other than to meet on Saturday. Any claim that any numbers were agreed to before Saturday is absolutely false.
 
Members of the NFLRA Negotiating Committee traveled to New York to meet on Saturday with the NFL. Commissioner Goodell did not attend. The NFLRA was prepared to discuss all remaining issues to reach a fair CBA. However, the NFL provided an ultimatum that the NFLRA abandon its positions on all issues other than compensation in return for the possibility that the NFL would modestly increase its offer.
 
The NFLRA put forth a compensation alternative which was immediately rejected by the NFL. The NFLRA asked the NFL to reconsider the NFLRA's offer to "grandfather" the defined benefit pension plan. The NFL rejected the request. The NFLRA asked the NFL to discuss other alternatives to resolve the pension issue. The NFL rejected that request.
 
Having refused to negotiate until the 11th hour, the NFL has chosen a tactic of personal attacks on the leadership of the NFLRA. This is unfortunate because the NFLRA simply seeks a fair CBA and the opportunity to get back on the field. The NFLRA continues its position that its members receive slightly less than they were paid under the 2006 CBA, and the continuation of the defined benefit plan for its current members -- all which would cost the NFL about 1/3 of 1% of its $9 Billion in revenues. It continues to mystify any objective observer of the situation why the NFL would jeopardize the safety of its players, the integrity of the game and the quality of its product in order to continue its attack on its professional referees.
 
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: bossman72 on September 03, 2012, 12:37:55 AM
I heard in order to meet the NFLRA's demands, it would only cost each team approx 65k per year.  I can't believe the NFL is scoffing at this...
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: mbyron on September 03, 2012, 06:55:57 AM
I heard in order to meet the NFLRA's demands, it would only cost each team approx 65k per year.  I can't believe the NFL is scoffing at this...
The number I heard 2 weeks ago was $100K/team/year. The Packers had $260M in revenues last year (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/30/nfl-valuations-11_Green-Bay-Packers_302814.html (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/30/nfl-valuations-11_Green-Bay-Packers_302814.html)), and the officials are asking for less than 0.0004 of that (using the $100K number, and the Packer's had the 9th highest revenue, which is pretty close to the average for all 32 teams.)

If your income was $50K/year, wouldn't you pay $20 more per year to make your life much better?
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: HLinNC on September 03, 2012, 08:25:11 AM
Its not the compensation, its the pension plan.  The NFL no longer wants to be on the hook for a defined pension plan for which most other corporations have long since abandoned.  The NFLRA doesn't want their retirement dumped into a 401K and run the risk of loss like everyone else in America has endured.

I understand the positions- the NFLRA wants to hang on to a good thing and the NFL is trying to drag them into the same pension as all of their other employees.  So goes the collective bargaining process.

The NFL is gambling that in the end nobody really cares who the officials are and they can ride out any hideously blown calls.  The NFLRA is hoping that the players will back them, which isn't really happening, and poor mouthing by the media will stir up enough resentment to push the NFL to settle.  Players aren't going to give up their game check in a solidarity move.   The officials are ultimately in a weaker position.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on September 03, 2012, 08:57:33 AM
How many refs sat when the League used replacement players?   I think that partially explains the player's position.

The League knows the officiating will be criticized no matter who is reffing.  Being able to call them "replacement refs" may make it easier for some to find fault but bottom line is the regulars make mistakes too.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: bama_stripes on September 03, 2012, 10:10:47 AM
If your income was $50K/year, wouldn't you pay $20 more per year to make your life much better?

That would depend on how much I had after buying all necessities.  If I only have $15, then the answer is obviously "No".      >:D
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: ECILLJ on September 06, 2012, 09:17:00 AM
Regardless of how you feel about the NFL / Referees issue. The replacement crew that worked last nights Giants / Cowboys games did a great job.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on September 06, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
Even Mike Pereira agrees:  http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/replacement-referees-perform-well-new-york-giants-dallas-cowboys-090512
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: El Macman on September 06, 2012, 11:12:05 AM
Didn't watch the whole game, but they seemed to do OK while I was watching. Except, in the first period (I think) the R signaled and announced "clipping." When they showed a replay, what they showed was a plain vanilla block in the back. Unless it was some other action, then the announcement and signal were either wrong, or the calling official doesn't know the difference between a clip and an illegal block in the back. That is hard to imagine, these days. Are the penalties different in the NFL, i.e., IBB 10 yards, CLP 15 yards? They announced 1/2 the distance, but I don't know if it was from inside or outside the 20. Anybody see this?

I'll tell you one thing. Regulars or replacements, the two fuzzy microphones on the U's hat look really stupid. (They are microphones, aren't they? They aren't, somehow, video cameras - are they? No matter - they still look stupid.)
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on September 06, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
I believe one is a microphone and one is a camera
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Welpe on September 06, 2012, 02:51:45 PM
That IBB looked like a side block to me, never mind that it wasn't clipping. A hold was missed on Cruz in the end zone but that's a tough place to pick one up and I've seen regulars miss that. I also wasn't sure about the DPI the B threw on the TD, didn't seem like much to me.

They didn't look terrible but they were at least a little rough. I wish the R would've quit yelling into his mic but I understand nerves surely had something to do with that. I also noticed that he used the Federation DOG signal instead of the NFL...just found that funny.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: maven on September 07, 2012, 06:15:41 AM
That IBB looked like a side block to me, never mind that it wasn't clipping. A hold was missed on Cruz in the end zone but that's a tough place to pick one up and I've seen regulars miss that. I also wasn't sure about the DPI the B threw on the TD, didn't seem like much to me.

They didn't look terrible but they were at least a little rough. I wish the R would've quit yelling into his mic but I understand nerves surely had something to do with that. I also noticed that he used the Federation DOG signal instead of the NFL...just found that funny.
Exactly my notes on this game. I'm not as forgiving about the missed hold in the EZ: that was a BIG jersey pull, visible from 3 camera angles. Somebody pretty obviously came off his key there.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: VALJ on September 10, 2012, 10:05:52 PM
How many refs sat when the League used replacement players?   I think that partially explains the player's position.

The League knows the officiating will be criticized no matter who is reffing.  Being able to call them "replacement refs" may make it easier for some to find fault but bottom line is the regulars make mistakes too.

I'm at the point where I believe it's time to stop calling them "replacement officials".  Once they reach the regular season, they're just "officials".
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: TXMike on September 10, 2012, 10:28:31 PM
Do you think if the League and NFLRA settled tonight that any of these officials would be working more than 1 more week at most?  I don't.  Not saying tey are not capable, just syaing that is the reality.  Therefore, for now they are the "replacement officials" and not the ones the League really wishes they had out there.
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Rulesman on September 10, 2012, 10:48:27 PM
...for now they are the "replacement officials" and not the ones the League really wishes they had out there.
"The League" really doesn't care. If they cared, this thing would be settled by now. That said, I watched most of the 4Q of the Ravens-Bengals and the entire 1st half of the Chargers-Raiders. I can honestly say I couldn't find fault with too many things. The biggest question was the PF call against the Ravens that Harbaugh went nuts over and even Gerry Austin backed the R as being correct.

And the Raiders are still the Raiders. Nothing has changed, no matter who is working the game.  ^flag after  ^flag after  ^flag...
Title: Re: NFL Looking for Refs
Post by: Eastshire on September 11, 2012, 07:26:26 AM
Do you think if the League and NFLRA settled tonight that any of these officials would be working more than 1 more week at most?  I don't.  Not saying tey are not capable, just syaing that is the reality.  Therefore, for now they are the "replacement officials" and not the ones the League really wishes they had out there.

If they settled tonight, sure. Give it two more weeks and I don't know if the league ever settles.