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jim

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touchdown
« on: August 18, 2013, 03:29:56 PM »
My topic happened in an NFL game a few years ago,  Our local High school association has different opinions on interpretations...   if a player on offense  possesses a ball in the opponents end zone,   but the ball doesn't break the plane,  and at that point,  the defense drives the player back onto the field of play where He is downed ,  is it a touchdown...  as opposed to a player who is in the field of play,   possessing the ball,   and the ball breaking the plane being a touchdown...   I   will post the NFL   Referee's   decision later...

thanks,   Jim
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Offline TXMike

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 03:46:55 PM »
If I  understand your situation it is a TD in NCAA.
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Offline Jackhammer

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 03:51:04 PM »
Quote from: jim on August 18, 2013, 03:29:56 PM
My topic happened in an NFL game a few years ago,  Our local High school association has different opinions on interpretations... if a player on offense  possesses a ball in the opponents end zone, but the ball doesn't break the plane,  and at that point,  the defense drives the player back onto the field of play where He is downed ,  is it a touchdown...  as opposed to a player who is in the field of play,   possessing the ball,   and the ball breaking the plane being a touchdown...   I   will post the NFL   Referee's   decision later...

thanks,   Jim

Trying to think of a way that both of these things can happen.  Seems like the ball either breaks the plane or it doesn't.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 04:51:34 PM »
Quote from: Jackhammer on August 18, 2013, 03:51:04 PM
Trying to think of a way that both of these things can happen.  Seems like the ball either breaks the plane or it doesn't.
I thought the same thing. If the ball is possessed in the opponent's end zone it has to break the plane. OK, jim, what are we missing?
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jim

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 05:44:56 PM »
Fellows,  I can only tell You what happened,   I am still not sure what is right,  Ravens vs Steelers a few years back, I think it was Santonio Holmes caught a pass with little time left in the end zone,  both feet completely in the end zone ,  while the ball did not break the plane,  as the catch was being made,   the defensive player drove Him back into the field of play...THE BALL NEVER BROKE THE PLANE,  I think the Referee was Walt Coleman,   after review His explanation was that possession of a live ball in the opponents end zone is always a touchdown.   This play  has come up numerous times in conversation  with opposite interpretations, if the receiver is in the end zone,   does it matter if the ball breaks the plane?
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2013, 05:50:15 PM »
Quote from: jim on August 18, 2013, 05:44:56 PM
...if the receiver is in the end zone,   does it matter if the ball breaks the plane?
Yes it does. Not a touchdown.

Same principle would apply on a free kick (Fed rules) caught by A with both feet in the end zone but the free kick doesn't break the plane of the goal line. Not a touchback...play on.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2013, 06:10:16 PM »
I think all 3 codes agree this is not a TD if ball never broke plane.  He must have seen ball break plane.
Just found this: http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nflnation&id=3013&tag=walt-coleman
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 07:06:35 PM by TXMike »
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »
I think you might have answered your own question, Jim, if what Coleman actually said was, "that possession of a live ball in the opponents end zone is always a touchdown", was the reason he ruled it a touchdown  then the agreed (rightly or wrongly) that the receiver had "possession of the ball IN THE ENDZONE". 

"possession of the ball IN THE ENDZONE", suggests not only possession, but that the possession OF THE BALL happened in the End Zone, Whether the player himself is in, or outside the End Zone, really doesn't much matter if the ball, while it was in his possession, broke the plane.
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: touchdown
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 08:24:05 PM »
NFL seems to have/had a different definition in regards to pass reception TD's in the endzone as opposed to running plays, similar to the touchback rule on kicks is different.
Here is a blog post discussing it.

http://blueollie.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/steelers-vs-ravens-touchdown-controversy-replay-officials-get-it-right-announcers-dont/

2012 is thus-which appears to be different now as opposed to 2008.

Section 2
Touchdown
TOUCHDOWN PLAYS
Article 1
Touchdown Plays.
A touchdown is scored when:
(a)
the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner who has advanced from the field of play; or
(b)
a ball in possession of an airborne runner is on, above, or behind the plane of the goal line, and some part of the ball passed over or inside the pylon; or
(c)
a ball in player possession touches the pylon, provided that, after contact by an opponent, no part of the player’s body, except his hands or feet, struck the ground before the ball touched the pylon; or
(d)
any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind the opponent’s goal line; or
(e)
the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act.
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