Details

[dcs07]

I've posted a few times and admit that I'm not an official, but I try to learn and be intelligent and not wind up in the from the coaches thread, and keep those I'm on the sideline with out of the from the coaches thread. That said our coaches are the type that think the officials are always out to get them, and are always agitated by the officials after the game (even when I tell them and show them that the call that went against us was right). So its makes my defense harder when in the first 10 plays from the tape this happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8-40fVqe34

Pay attention to the details coaches, players, and referees. The incorrect horizontal spots probably helped our defense by making it 4th and 1 from a hash and not the middle of the field (we're in black), but when coaches want to complain about officials they see things like that and it doesn't help. BTW, we won the game and the officials were good on the whole from my vantage point. Always a PI play or hold that someone could argue but those are to be expected and part of the game.

On another note, here's a good call on a somewhat unusual illegal touching play. I know odd ones can look easy on tape, but it can be easy to get caught in the moment and miss the easy ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT1PUGMcXPs

[Coby]

Thank you for sending in the plays.  Unfortunately with the education filters here at school (I am also a teacher), I can not see the video.  The good news is 99.9% of the people on refstripes are not your typical officials.  Most of us on here love looking at video.  The bad news is most referees are not on here.

Feel free to send complaints and learning videos to Houston TASO via HUDL.  We will use it in our training videos.

[RunRickyRun]

After the incomplete pass snapped from the hash, I'm fairly certain the ball was spotted by the Referee at the post/upright.  You can see the Umpire moving toward the spot of the incompletion near the end of the replay.  While this is no excuse, the Referee is not as likely to know the lateral spot of the ball.  It should probably have been corrected by the Umpire, but the difference in spot was not likely seen as significant at the time.

The spot after the 3rd down is much more problematic for me.  As an Umpire I'm certain that that ball should be placed by me.  It is possible that he was engaged in some 'preventative officiating' and was covered for by another official, especially since this was early in the game.  However, on a play between the hashes the Umpire must know the lateral spot.  The difference between center of the field and either hash is significant enough it should have been corrected.

[blindref757]

Was there a measurement after the 3rd down play?  Can't figure any other way that the ball would go to that hash.  This crew looks pretty competent...they are hustling and getting the vertical spots good.  Sometimes things just happen...nobody is perfect.  Don't ever forget that we all have day jobs and we are out there as a service.  We owe it to ourselves, our crew, our chapter, but mostly to the kids and coaches to give it 100% and be our best, but the best you may get is $65 worth from a guy that does this as a hobby.  About 20% are trying to move up and get paid a lot of money to do this...the rest are doing it because they love it and are doing the best they can.

[dcs07]

Yes, there was a measurement. That is almost certainly how it happened. I agree with the rest blindref. I'm usually the one saying those things to our coaches and fans. The L was maybe a bit curt with us sometimes, but to be honest our coaches probably deserve a bit of that. I do think they are a pretty decent crew, just want to remind everyone that the details like that show up on film, since the time between plays is cut out hash mark issues are going to be more obvious. And when I'm trying to convince people that not all officials are terrible things like that don't help me.

[RunRickyRun]

Was there a measurement after the 3rd down play?  Can't figure any other way that the ball would go to that hash.  This crew looks pretty competent...they are hustling and getting the vertical spots good.  Sometimes things just happen...nobody is perfect.  Don't ever forget that we all have day jobs and we are out there as a service.  We owe it to ourselves, our crew, our chapter, but mostly to the kids and coaches to give it 100% and be our best, but the best you may get is $65 worth from a guy that does this as a hobby.  About 20% are trying to move up and get paid a lot of money to do this...the rest are doing it because they love it and are doing the best they can.

I didn't consider this, but that makes sense.  However, would you not expect the wing official to come inside the hash to spot the ball on a close play.  I will throw the ball out to the wing to spot it if the tackle was outside the hash but on a play in the middle I've been taught to let him come get the ball and spot it.

[CenTexTM]

Yes, there was a measurement. That is almost certainly how it happened. I agree with the rest blindref. I'm usually the one saying those things to our coaches and fans. The L was maybe a bit curt with us sometimes, but to be honest our coaches probably deserve a bit of that. I do think they are a pretty decent crew, just want to remind everyone that the details like that show up on film, since the time between plays is cut out hash mark issues are going to be more obvious. And when I'm trying to convince people that not all officials are terrible things like that don't help me.

This last sentence is perplexing and distressing to me as I think it encapsulates the lack of respect toward officials many coaches display.  If the starting point you're working from is that "all officials are terrible" and the onus is on the officials to prove they are not, then we've already lost.  We should absolutely strive for perfection in all aspects, but I don't think that failing to reach that automatically equates with "terrible."  Most HS officials are spending 15-20 hours/week away from their families and jobs during the season because they love the game, not counting the hours of study and clinics they attend prior to the start of the season.  They want to do a good job and officiate fairly, but the five older guys sometimes have trouble keeping up with the 22 young ones and we don't have the advantage of deep flanks and instant replay to help us out like higher levels of play might.  I've signaled TD after counting 10 on Team B often enough to know we're not the only ones who make mistakes, however. 

After a tackle in which the defender grabbed the ball carrier by the inside back collar of the jersey and then fell forward 5 yards later, I had the Team A coach yell and ask if he needed to read the rule to me.  That's a qualitatively different comment than "Didn't you see that?" or "Why wasn't that a horsecollar?"  Those statements don't carry with them the presumption of incompetence or illiteracy that the question he actually asked does.  This is far from the most egregious example that could be cited, but for me, it was when I stopped enjoying this avocation.  We're used to being played and cajoled and "helped" by the sidelines, but I don't think we should have to get used to being disrespected.  The field of officials is top-heavy and retention of new officials is abysmal, and as rules become more complex and more changes are implemented I think it's likely that missing a horizontal spot won't even make the list of things to worry about.  There were a few Big 12 games early in the season where I'm sure the crew would have been happy to have this be their biggest mistake.

My last game was between two excellent (both top 10), well-coached teams in a fiercely contested game.  When the coaches had questions or concerns, they expressed them like professionals.  The intensity and importance of the game wasn't used as an excuse to demean the participants, and in something of a shake-up, the evaluations from both winning and losing coaches were fair.  It was an amazing experience and reminded me of why I got into this in the first place and why (hopefully) someday I'll be able to do it again.   

[James]

  I will throw the ball out to the wing to spot it if the tackle was outside the hash...

Please don't. If the throw is in any way not perfect, it looks really bad that either - the official holding the spot has to leave it to fetch the ball, or the official that threw the ball has to run past and go get it and give it to the spotter.
If there is a measurement, you need to be in that area anyways. Hand him the ball and take a look at it.

[TxSkyBolt]

This last sentence is perplexing and distressing to me as I think it encapsulates the lack of respect toward officials many coaches display.  If the starting point you're working from is that "all officials are terrible" and the onus is on the officials to prove they are not, then we've already lost.  We should absolutely strive for perfection in all aspects, but I don't think that failing to reach that automatically equates with "terrible."  Most HS officials are spending 15-20 hours/week away from their families and jobs during the season because they love the game, not counting the hours of study and clinics they attend prior to the start of the season.  They want to do a good job and officiate fairly, but the five older guys sometimes have trouble keeping up with the 22 young ones and we don't have the advantage of deep flanks and instant replay to help us out like higher levels of play might.  I've signaled TD after counting 10 on Team B often enough to know we're not the only ones who make mistakes, however. 

After a tackle in which the defender grabbed the ball carrier by the inside back collar of the jersey and then fell forward 5 yards later, I had the Team A coach yell and ask if he needed to read the rule to me.  That's a qualitatively different comment than "Didn't you see that?" or "Why wasn't that a horsecollar?"  Those statements don't carry with them the presumption of incompetence or illiteracy that the question he actually asked does.  This is far from the most egregious example that could be cited, but for me, it was when I stopped enjoying this avocation.  We're used to being played and cajoled and "helped" by the sidelines, but I don't think we should have to get used to being disrespected.  The field of officials is top-heavy and retention of new officials is abysmal, and as rules become more complex and more changes are implemented I think it's likely that missing a horizontal spot won't even make the list of things to worry about.  There were a few Big 12 games early in the season where I'm sure the crew would have been happy to have this be their biggest mistake.

My last game was between two excellent (both top 10), well-coached teams in a fiercely contested game.  When the coaches had questions or concerns, they expressed them like professionals.  The intensity and importance of the game wasn't used as an excuse to demean the participants, and in something of a shake-up, the evaluations from both winning and losing coaches were fair.  It was an amazing experience and reminded me of why I got into this in the first place and why (hopefully) someday I'll be able to do it again.   

Very well said...+1

[Wingmanbp]

I realize that the ball was moved from once hash to the other inadvertently but in all honesty what bearing did that have on a dive play up the middle? I could see complaining if the coach called a play going to the wide side that became the short side but other than that it not an issue. Other than the mechanic issue anyway. which we all make mistakes and hope that they don't make an impact on the game. Which in my opinion this one did not.

[dcs07]

I agree with you wingman, and if you noticed I said I am affiliated with the black team in the video. If anything it helped us by having it on the hash and not in the middle. I'm just saying watch your details, when coaches who like to complain (and I completely agree with CenTex, coaches are far too into that these days) see that its just more fuel. The officials in our game were good (my fellow coaches won't see it that way, but if you play 11 games and you think the officials are bad in all of them its probably not the officials fault).

There are always judgement calls people will disagree on and the hash issue looks worse on film because it skips all the action in between. I'm not trying to rag on these guys at all, just pointing out something that could happen to anybody. To be honest I might not have noticed except it was in the first 10 plays of the game. The hash placement could make a difference in different spot.