Author Topic: Screaming Coaches (Read 39856 times)

tothemax96 · « **on:** January 02, 2015, 10:30:52 PM »

Do you think we will ever get to a point where the coaches will get off our butts? Why has that become such a big part of the game. It has Nothing to do with their title of Coach. Is it something they practice, like special teams?? Most of the time, the coach yelling doesn't even know the rule he is complaining about. I have never seen an official stop and change his call because a coach yelled at him. I don't yell at him to stop running that Dive play that hasn't worked all night. I wish the rules committee would put more restrictions on the coaches conduct toward officials. Thanks, What Do You Think.......?

TXMike · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2015, 10:35:42 PM »

The simple answer is ...we have the rules now, they are just not used. How long did we have the clear sideline rule but never had clear sidelines till we started enforcing them.

tothemax96 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:36:21 PM »

Yeah Mike, I know the rule is there. But who is going to be the first one to flag a coach. Then will the chapter back him up of just say, you have to have tough skin. Tough skin is one thing but taking abuse gets old really fast. TASO or UIL Needs to step in and change the approach the coaches are taking toward officials. We talk about retaining officials, but who wants to take such abuse when this is suppose to be fun. I am trying to get different officials opinions of this subject.

TXMike · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:49:21 PM »

What would you have TASO or UIL do? They can't do anything until you have done something first. Did you flag? Did you do an incident report? Have you scratched any coaches?

There have been only a few coaches who I have thought were truly abusive. Don't have to worry about them any longer as I have scratched them. There are plenty of coaches out there who are not abusive. Just work for them.

HLinNC · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2015, 08:21:36 AM »

This is not a one size fits all topic. Every official's tolerance level is different. Yes, there are rules we use as guidelines but in the end it is up to the individual to draw his line. I know principals of officiating preach for consistency but the human element isn't easily removed.

I have worked on chain crews at the NCAA 1AA (FCS) level so I have heard coaches at that level. There are things said and done there that wouldn't fly in a high school game but it is accepted because college officials are expected to live with it.

Granted, there are some universal items that should earn a flag every time they occur.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:19:48 AM »

Quote from: TXMike on January 03, 2015, 08:49:21 PM

What would you have TASO or UIL do? They can't do anything until you have done something first. Did you flag? Did you do an incident report? Have you scratched any coaches?

There have been only a few coaches who I have thought were truly abusive. Don't have to worry about them any longer as I have scratched them. There are plenty of coaches out there who are not abusive. Just work for them.

Interacting with coaches, over matters at dispute, are simply part of the environment we choose. How we respond to such incidents is a decision we (alone) get to make. I would suggest we all keep in mind coaches are usually very much invested in the game, are often under considerable pressure, of various kinds, some of which is purely self generated and is in the midst of "herding cats" to some degree.

Considering all that, coaches are still adults, and as such are bound by rules of civility and decorum, which are very clearly spelled out in the football rule books (at all levels). I've found it advisable, "To be nice (as long as possible), until it's time NOT to be nice" which is purely a judgment call.

We all understand and accept it is our responsibility to ALWAYS be respectful and to listen patiently to questions, or objections, that are REASONABLY presented, provide clarifying information calmly and factually and explain rulings. Sarcasm is not a helpful tool rendered in either direction, and the objective is to clarify whatever the dispute may be about, without lowering the discussion to personal dispute.

Clearly understanding the specific rule requirements for behavior during such exchanges, is extremely important regarding any necessary application of consequences regarding non-compliance. When necessary, consequences should be applied calmly and efficiently, totally independent of what the perceptions of others might be, based SPECIFICALLY on violations of specific EXISTING rules.

Where the line is drawn, to determine whether consequences are appropriate, is ENTIRELY within the judgment of the official applying them, and how those consequences are introduced will have a significant bearing on whether they successfully lower the temperature and return the discussion to the levels of calmness and civility intended.

The key is to NEVER, EVER allow yourself to sink to whatever of inappropriate behavior you are confronting.

bkdow · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2015, 02:23:06 PM »

I've officiated various levels of different sports for the past 20+ years. It is usually my problem when I allow MY emotions to get involved with the conversation. If I can keep my emotions out of it, I can properly flag coaches and players alike. If we keep our emotions in check, we can properly define (in our own minds) when a player or coach crosses the line.

TXMike · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2015, 02:35:47 PM »

One of the things I tell newer officials is to remember that it is not them personally who is being yelled at, it is the uniform. Most of the time the coaches do not know anything about us as persons. They may not know we are wonderful, fathers, grandfathers, vets, benevolent citizens, etc. They know the black and white stripes made a call they did not agree with and that is what they are "attacking" (the black and white stripes).

bossman72 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2015, 11:36:23 PM »

I don't mind coaches "getting on us" about calls. What I do mind is the over the top gestures and screaming you see at D1. It's gotten to that point because we've allowed it to get to that point (with the guiding hand of the supervisors). The only way we will get it under control is if the D1 guys start hitting coaches with UNS fouls and the supervisor supporting it!

TampaSteve · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:49:02 AM »

In the off-season last year, I thought I saw an NCAA video for what was the upcoming 2014 season (that just ended). Among the topics was a POE regarding these screaming coaches going nuts. and the NCAA wanted to settle them down. Based on what I saw this year, I did not see where it really made much of a difference.

Legacy Zebra · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:48:57 AM »

I think that video only addressed coaches leaving the team area to throw their temper tantrum. If he's still in his box and whatever he says doesn't cross the line I don't think you can do anything.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2015, 12:33:45 PM »

Quote from: Legacy Zebra on January 05, 2015, 11:48:57 AM

I think that video only addressed coaches leaving the team area to throw their temper tantrum. If he's still in his box and whatever he says doesn't cross the line I don't think you can do anything.

There are any number of understandable reasons a coach can lose his poise, but NEVER AN EXCUSE for doing so.

Such behavior should be corrected, as subetly and quickly as possible. Hopefully a "look" (like the one your mother, and the Coach's mother, used) will bring the offending coach back to an adult and civil level. Failing that, a quick and gentle reminder of who we both are and where we are will accomplish the task.

Ignoring INITIAL minor infractions may often allow the coach to realize his own error and make corrections, but ignoring repeated instances, or major abuses, will likely ony serve to encourage further inappropriate behavior, which like any cancer, can spread to cause serious problems, and REQUIRE progressively harsher, and more hurtful consequences.

These situations can easily turn into the basic "Fix it now, or continue dealing with it later" situations.

bama_stripes · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2015, 03:18:11 PM »

Quote

I've officiated various levels of different sports for the past 20+ years. It is usually my problem when I allow MY emotions to get involved with the conversation. If I can keep my emotions out of it, I can properly flag coaches and players alike. If we keep our emotions in check, we can properly define (in our own minds) when a player or coach crosses the line.

Quote

One of the things I tell newer officials is to remember that it is not them personally who is being yelled at, it is the uniform.

Agree 100% with both of the above.

ncwingman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:20:44 PM »

I can't find it at the moment, but I believe there is a story over in the War Stories forum about a flag that the crowd disagreed with and the coach calls the white hat over... and proceeds to "yell" at him about how appropriate and correct the call was, but he needs to "show the crowd" that he's arguing and "standing up" for his players.

I think this is part of the problem -- screaming at the officials is part of the coach's job description. It's part of the theater and entertainment of the game, and it will be very hard to get rid of.

Etref · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2015, 07:42:15 PM »

20 some odd years ago, I had a veteran white hat who told coaches in the pregame he would talk with them only on the sideline with R facing the field and the coach must keep,his hands in his pockets or on his hips. Any deviation and the conference was over and a timeout charged.

Coach facing the stands kept them from cursing(lip reader) and the hand in the pocket kept them from acting a fool. Worked pretty well.

NorCalMike · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:43:50 PM »

Quote from: ncwingman on January 05, 2015, 06:20:44 PM

I can't find it at the moment, but I believe there is a story over in the War Stories forum about a flag that the crowd disagreed with and the coach calls the white hat over... and proceeds to "yell" at him about how appropriate and correct the call was, but he needs to "show the crowd" that he's arguing and "standing up" for his players.

I think this is part of the problem -- screaming at the officials is part of the coach's job description. It's part of the theater and entertainment of the game, and it will be very hard to get rid of.

That was my game. The coach didn't raise his voice. He just wanted to make a point with the fans. I was okay with what he did because he was respectful about it. Also, I have worked his games before and he never sends it over the top when he is unhappy with us. He knew that it was not any call we made that cause the loss but the fact that his kids were outplayed on the field. Some of our other coaches would get a much shorter leash.

Not trying to make any excuses but coaches sometimes are in really bad situations with the schools and the parents. There is a lot of pressure. I don't mind the coach disputing a call as long as he is not making it personal or accusing us of some type of cheating. I give him a chance to vent within reason. If he needs an explanation I give it to him. If that doesn't satisfy him and he doesn't want to move on I will state "Okay Coach I've heard you, let's move on." Most coaches will stop at this point. Assistants get a much shorter leash than head coach. If an assistant won't continues, I will ask the head coach to handle it first. If he can't or won't. Of course I work as an umpire so I don't have to have the coach chirping in my ear all night.

VALJ · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2015, 08:03:50 AM »

Quote from: NorCalMike on January 05, 2015, 09:43:50 PM

Assistants get a much shorter leash than head coach. If an assistant won't continues, I will ask the head coach to handle it first.

Oh, yeah. To borrow a metaphor, I'll talk to the organ grinder. He needs to keep the (figurative) monkeys under control.

Quote from: NorCalMike on January 05, 2015, 09:43:50 PM

If he can't or won't. Of course I work as an umpire so I don't have to have the coach chirping in my ear all night.

I'm finding that I like working B more and more as I continue to work. This is just one of the reasons.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2015, 01:39:51 PM »

At preseason meetings with coaches I've said : "I don't intend this to be a slur , but we try to treat screaming coaches like barking dogs. If a dog is constantly barking (coach constantly screaming) we tend not to pay attention to them. If they tend to get on our nerves, we put them in their dog house (

). If the dog only barks when there's something to really bark about...a villain coming, a fire, a flood, etc ( a questionable rule interp,etc), we pay attention. Guys, what type of dog/coach do you want us to perceive you to be

?"
Some coaches

, some coaches

; some coaches just continue sleeping......but they all get the message ; Be reasonable and we will reason with them.

InsideTheStripes · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2015, 09:43:37 PM »

Quote from: tothemax96 on January 03, 2015, 08:36:21 PM

We talk about retaining officials, but who wants to take such abuse when this is suppose to be fun.

Who told you this was supposed to be fun?

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2015, 07:33:52 AM »

Quote from: InsideTheStripes on January 11, 2015, 09:43:37 PM

Who told you this was supposed to be fun?

Just about everybody.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VALJ · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2015, 07:57:30 AM »

Inside The Stripes, I'm not directing this at you personally.

If one is not having fun doing this, they should turn in their stripes. I've said from the beginning that if I'm not having enough fun to justify all the time away from my family - much less the time running around on the field, getting grief from coaches and fans, and attending meetings, plus the cost of the dues, equipment, wear and tear on my car and my body, and the like - I need to give this up.

HLinNC · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2015, 10:00:14 AM »

Tom.OH · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2015, 01:47:26 PM »

My crew, as we break for the 1st half kick , say see what you call and call what you see, and have fun.

VALJ · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2015, 02:06:16 PM »

Quote from: Tom.OH on January 12, 2015, 01:47:26 PM

My crew, as we break for the 1st half kick , say see what you call and call what you see, and have fun.

Hey, I say just about that too when I wear the white hat! "See everything you call. Don't call everything you see. Hustle, but don't hurry. And have some fun!"

BrendanP · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:24:34 PM »

Quote from: VALJ on January 12, 2015, 07:57:30 AM

Inside The Stripes, I'm not directing this at you personally.

If one is not having fun doing this, they should turn in their stripes. I've said from the beginning that if I'm not having enough fun to justify all the time away from my family - much less the time running around on the field, getting grief from coaches and fans, and attending meetings, plus the cost of the dues, equipment, wear and tear on my car and my body, and the like - I need to give this up.

This is a very well-articulated way of saying it. I'm a young guy and so far I enjoy what I do. The moment I don't, I won't anymore. Hopefully that won't be for a long time.