Punt Play Situation

[TxSkyBolt]

5. A 4/7 @ midfield. B9 muffs the punt at the B-6, it rolls into the end zone where he recovers and attempts to run it out. He is hit and fumbles. B5 recovers in the end zone & runs to the A-35. During the first run B98 held at the A-25. Result?

[NVFOA_Ump]

A bit of a head scratcher but I'll go with PSK enforcement as follows:

1.  Kicking down ended with B in possession and B will be the next team to snap the ball
2.  Foul occurred during the return (the related run) that both started and ended in the EZ
3.  Making the PSK spot the 20 yard line
5.  10 yards for holding leaving
4.  B 1st & 10 at the 10 yard line

[jg-me]

Cannot be PSK if the foul did not occur during the scrimmage kick.

[ETXZebra]

From Rom Gilbert's quiz.

Fourth & 12 on the A-48. B44 muffs the punt on B's 6. B44 recovers the ball in B's end zone and fumbles before leaving B's end zone. B45 picks up the ball in B's end zone and advances to B's 22 where he is tackled. During B44's run, B94 held at the B10.

Safety. B f/k B-20. Team possession changed in B's end zone. The result of the play is not a touchback. Since B44's related run ended in B's end zone, the basic enforcement spot is B's goal line. (10-2-2-d-2-c

[Legacy Zebra]

It's not PSK because the foul occurred after the kick ended. I think the "question" here is where the basic spot is. It's a running play where there is no neutral zone, so one rule would say that the basic spot is the end of the related run in the end zone. (10-2-2-d-1-c) But it's also a running play that ends in the end zone after there was a change of possession in the end zone and the result of the play is not a touchback, so another rule would say that the basic spot is the goal line. (10-2-2-d-2-c, 2-17-1-c, 2-4-1-b-3). But it doesn't matter because no matter which spot you use, it is a safety. Whether the penalty leaves the ball behind the goal line or on the goal line it is still a safety by penalty. (8-5-1-b). So, while there might be some confusion about which spot to use, it doesn't matter. The ball is still on or behind the goal line and it will be a safety.

[TxSkyBolt]

Agree that the rule says safety and enforcement from G/L.  Just seems odd to award a safety since B didn't put the ball in the EZ. Absent a foul, if B9 gets tackled in the EZ it's a TB not a safety.

[dvasques]

would be the exact same ruling if the COP was an interception in the EZ or a fumble recovery in the EZ, right?

[NVFOA_Ump]

So I'm thinking that given the "gold standard" concept that we don't have a safety if B did not put the ball in the EZ and it was a kick that put it there that we would use our best judgment and determine that the penalty flag back up field at the A-25 was thrown while the kick was loose in the EZ prior to the "run".

The idea that a brief possession by B in the EZ without ever leaving the EZ, qualifies as a "running play" then used to establish an enforcement spot IMHO needs some serious rules thought.

[Kalle]

The idea that a brief possession by B in the EZ without ever leaving the EZ, qualifies as a "running play" then used to establish an enforcement spot IMHO needs some serious rules thought.

Well, team B both fouled and made a bad play, so I don't really see any need for a rule change. Either don't foul or don't fumble.

[Welpe]

Well, team B both fouled and made a bad play, so I don't really see any need for a rule change. Either don't foul or don't fumble.

Agreed. This doesn't necessitate a rule change. Fumbling in the end zone can have bad consequences, this is one of them.