More "great" Sportsmanship

[TXMike]

More "great" sportsmanship...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/football/broward/fl-flanagan-miramar-recap-1003-20151002-story.html

Not like it as unexpected that it would be “chippy” based on how the coin toss

[ncwingman]

Your links seem to have a few issues -- the article is behind a paywall and the daily snark link is giving me a page not found error.

Digging around, here's a working link to the coin toss video

[TxBJ]

Wow! That R is a perfect example of what gives us a bad name.

[HLinNC]

I can think of about a 1/2 dozen ways to have handled that better.  He actually exacerbated it.

 I think bringing the two coaches together to see if they are the ones driving it would be the first step.  If they support it then advise them that the leash is going to be really short.  If they don't then let them handle it immediately.

Sending those captains off and ask the coaches  to give you captains that appear to be willing to demonstrate good sportsmanship is about as far as I would be willing to go.  I' m not ordering anyone to do anything

[ETXZebra]

 No being familiar with Federation rules, is it mandatory that the captains shake hands?

[blindref757]

How does a fellow referee watch this and not be really critical?  I have learned a lot about giving guys the benefit of the doubt on this site and I know that oftentimes, video of plays fall short of giving a full picture.  But this is all in context and we hear practically everything.  This is pretty tough to defend.

[HLinNC]

No being familiar with Federation rules, is it mandatory that the captains shake hands?

In a word, no.

But be prepared for those who will throw out the God clause or the failing to comply with an official's request provision of 9-5-1

3-2-1

[TxSkyBolt]

That whole episode was on the R


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[TXMike]

I can't believe you guys!!  ( I am assuming you read the article also)  The teams had over 500 yards in penalties for the game.  Was that on the R also? ! ? !    This was a mess that was gonna happen regardless. 

[Etref]

I imagine the crew knew going in this was going to be a chippy game and he wanted to at least try to set a tone. However, I think he went a little far. If they do not want to shake hands, send them off the field and get 4 more or have the coaches come to mid field. He should have discussed this in pre game with the coaches.

I have been in a few games that went south despite what the crew or coaches did, but don't push it too far.

[TexDoc]

The coach complained that the officials didn't "control the game."  What exactly does that mean?  500 yards in penalties and two coaches ejected.  That's not enough?

The R obviously knew what he was going to do at the toss.  Who cares if they shake hands.  Move on. 

[TxSkyBolt]

I can't believe you guys!!  ( I am assuming you read the article also)  The teams had over 500 yards in penalties for the game.  Was that on the R also? ! ? !    This was a mess that was gonna happen regardless.

Mike, I refer only to the opening coin toss. I have no knowledge about the rest of the game.

But really, "That's an order!"

[TxSkyBolt]

Exactly Doc. I used to say shake hands if you want too. I could care less if they do or don't. But making a production out of it was unnecessary.

[fudilligas]

check this out:  www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/sfl-video-miramar-gets-unsportsmanlike-penalty-before-coin-toss-20151003-htmlstory.html

What would you do???  It is worth waiting for.  Have not seen anything like it in 41 years.

[TXMike]

Mike, I refer only to the opening coin toss. I have no knowledge about the rest of the game.

But really, "That's an order!"

  Well it is OUR field you know....

[NJOfficial]

They need to suspend some coaches and players for a couple of games.

[Txgarza]

In my 14 years playing and 13 officiating I never thought or heard of opponents not shaking hands until now. I just assumed it's the sportsmanship thing to do regardless of who you are playing. Luckily now I know if the situation were to ever present itself. I agree the R could have handled the coin toss in a better way.

[Joe Stack]

I pretty much agree with Mike -- I would have handled this a little differently, but for heaven's sake; how in the heck can you blame the R for what occurred? These kids came to do anything BUT play football. If they don't shake hands, I would have sent the teams back, brought the coaches out and said, OK, what's going on here? I'm probably going to suspend the game unless I get satisfactory answers and take my chances with my assignor and the oversight body. Sounds drastic, but this game is evidence that nothing good comes out of teams who's captains won't shake hands at the start.

[TxSkyBolt]

Luckily now I know if the situation were to ever present itself.

How would you handle?

[Atlanta Blue]

Referee needs a remedial course in game management.

There is NO rule that requires players to shake hands.  We've been through this before.

[PABJNR]

9-5-1g. Not that I would have thrown a flag.


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[NorCalMike]

I can tell how I would handle it. I going to go way out on a limb because I have zero rules to back me up. I would send both set of captains back to their sidelines. I would have both head coaches meet me and my umpire at the center of the field and give them a speech that goes something like this.

Gentlemen, I am rather upset that your captains could not show enough maturity and sportsmanship to introduce themselves to each other and shake hands. In all my years of officiating I have never seen anything like this. It is my belief that you as the head coach are responsible for what just happened here. So here is what is going to happen. I am going to bring the captains out again. I don't care if the shake hands. We will do the coin toss and get this game underway. I will be telling my crew that they are to watch these players very closely and to flag anything that looks like a foul. There will be no talk to the players if they start to get out of hand or do not act like gentlemen during the game. We will flag the slightest violation of the rules. Anything that looks like Unsportsmanlike conduct will be flagged. Anything flagrant and the player will be ejected. I don't want to hear a word from your assistants or they will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. If you have a question or wish to speak with my about something you will need to call a time out. If this game starts to get out of control at any point I will terminate the contest and final a report of with the state association. If you don't like these conditions we can terminate this game right now and all go home. It is up to you.

Hell I would probably get in trouble from my association for doing that but I am not put up with that can BS.

[Rulesman]

NorCal, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. 

[GAHSUMPIRE]

I have a number of questions about this situation.

Is shaking hands that important? Important enough to flag? I don't think so, but I can be convinced otherwise. If it is, it should be important enough to flag BOTH teams, since neither team shook hands. And then, if it is important enough to flag once, if they STILL don't shake hands, don't you then HAVE to flag them a second time? A second unsportsmanlike foul carries and ejection. Do you really want to disqualify the player(s) before the game even started for... being rude?

Do you really want to defend that?

Sending those players back and asking for new ones? Why, so the same episode can be replayed?

Making a big deal out of this, to me, just serves to escalate the situation that we are called upon to calm down. Finish the coin toss, send them to their sidelines with a warning that sportsmanship is expected, and their childishness has removed any benefit of the doubt that might have been given previously.

I would address the issue with the coaches, but I would not bring them to midfield to do so. As the R, I would take my U and the wings working that sideline and tell each head coach about the display of immaturity by the players designated as captains. He honestly may not know, as I assume coaches are somewhat busy during this time. I would tell him that we will call the game fairly, as expected, and while I expect his assistance, whether we get it or not, we will maintain control of the contest. As was ALREADY mentioned in our previous discussion, we expect all players and coaches to conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner, and anything less than that will be penalized.

At that point I would issue each team a sideline warning, and move on.

[AlUpstateNY]

I can tell how I would handle it. I going to go way out on a limb because I have zero rules to back me up. I would send both set of captains back to their sidelines. I would have both head coaches meet me and my umpire at the center of the field and give them a speech that goes something like this.

Gentlemen, I am rather upset that your captains could not show enough maturity and sportsmanship to introduce themselves to each other and shake hands. In all my years of officiating I have never seen anything like this. It is my belief that you as the head coach are responsible for what just happened here. So here is what is going to happen. I am going to bring the captains out again. I don't care if the shake hands. We will do the coin toss and get this game underway. I will be telling my crew that they are to watch these players very closely and to flag anything that looks like a foul. There will be no talk to the players if they start to get out of hand or do not act like gentlemen during the game. We will flag the slightest violation of the rules. Anything that looks like Unsportsmanlike conduct will be flagged. Anything flagrant and the player will be ejected. I don't want to hear a word from your assistants or they will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. If you have a question or wish to speak with my about something you will need to call a time out. If this game starts to get out of control at any point I will terminate the contest and final a report of with the state association. If you don't like these conditions we can terminate this game right now and all go home. It is up to you.

HECK I would probably get in trouble from my association for doing that but I am not put up with that can HORSE HOCKEY.

If you get in trouble with your Association, NorCal, let me know where you stop to "drown your sorrow" and I'll be pleased to by the first several rounds.

My Giants beat Buffalo yesterday, as much do to the stupidity of the Bills players, who showed as much an absence of self control, as the Giant's positive efforts.  Then today's news reports shows coach "Tough guy" applauding their dumb and costly efforts.

We all know this nonsense filters down, both to HS players and (sadly) some coaches. NFHS rules are designed to manage an interscholastic "GAME".  Civil behavior and basic manners are supposed to be taught prior to game night, preferably by parents and ultimately supported by coaches and other rational adults.

We all have a choice, either we can turn a blind eye to bad behavior, ignore it and then complain about it, or we can REFUSE TO TOLERATE IT.  The only person you NEED to defend your choice to is the face you see in your mirror.  Those who choose to nitpick the written language of a set of "GAME" rules to search for some lame excuse to turn away from common sense responsibility need to have a long, hard conversation with that face in their mirror.

Allowing "OUR" game to be taken over by BAD/STUPID behavior is a far greater threat to it's survival than concern over concussions, or other physical injuries.