Championship Games

[hefnerjm]

Unless the UIL specifically addresses the "picking" of officials, which can clearly lead to conflicts of interest, it is very unlikely to ever change.  The UIL does whatever it can to keep football coaches happy, since football playoff games are by far their main source of revenue. 

UIL is the governing body for high school sports in Texas, right?  Why should UIL care if the coaches are happy or not...how would the coaches being unhappy affect UIL? 

Are you saying that UIL does something coaches dont like, that the coaches could withhold the playoff revenue from UIL???  That makes no sense...I thought that the UIL governs the contest and then distributes revenue to the schools.  UIL negotiates contracts with AT&T Stadium or NRG, or whomever, right?  The money would still flow through the UIL....maybe the schools would be encouraged to negotiate a revenue split that reduces the UIL's cut??

Is UIL afraid they will somehow no longer be the governing body if they do something good for the sport that removes something from the coaches?   

Maybe I dont understand the relationship with UIL and the schools?

[JasonTX]

UIL is the governing body for high school sports in Texas, right?  Why should UIL care if the coaches are happy or not...how would the coaches being unhappy affect UIL? 

Are you saying that UIL does something coaches dont like, that the coaches could withhold the playoff revenue from UIL???  That makes no sense...I thought that the UIL governs the contest and then distributes revenue to the schools.  UIL negotiates contracts with AT&T Stadium or NRG, or whomever, right?  The money would still flow through the UIL....maybe the schools would be encouraged to negotiate a revenue split that reduces the UIL's cut??

Is UIL afraid they will somehow no longer be the governing body if they do something good for the sport that removes something from the coaches?   

Maybe I dont understand the relationship with UIL and the schools?

  Schools are not forced to be members of the UIL.  They are free to join any league they want.  Now, the UIL is the biggest league currently,  but anyone could create a new league and then try to convince schools to join it.

[Coby]

The Coby Plan:

Every region submit 12 crews to be evaluated.  Each crews evaluation consists of HUDL film review.  They must submit a playlist of every penalty and coach complaint no call they had in (week 2,3,4,5,6,7 Friday games).  Easily verified thru Zware evals and foul reports.  Every crew that wishes to be put up for consideration for a state championship game must also submit a $100 evaluation fee.  I will verify that they submitted their evaluation correctly, then turn the "video resumes" over to the evaluators (not me).  Who will then choose the top 15 crews from across the state, and split the evaluation fee money between them. Then TASO states that the only crews eligible for state championship games are these 15 crews, coaches pick whichever ones you can agree upon.  We will only take out "home chapter" crews if the teams are from different regions.  So the Houston crews will not be eligible for a Houston game.

HUDL usage goes up (good for officiating)
There is a system of equity (good for morale)

I honestly believe that if we went to the coaches with a plan they would be willing to try the plan.  We never approach them with an alternative so they keep doing what they have always done.

[getnbetter]

The Coby Plan:

Every region submit 12 crews to be evaluated.  Each crews evaluation consists of HUDL film review.  They must submit a playlist of every penalty and coach complaint no call they had in (week 2,3,4,5,6,7 Friday games).  Easily verified thru Zware evals and foul reports.  Every crew that wishes to be put up for consideration for a state championship game must also submit a $100 evaluation fee.  I will verify that they submitted their evaluation correctly, then turn the "video resumes" over to the evaluators (not me).  Who will then choose the top 15 crews from across the state, and split the evaluation fee money between them. Then TASO states that the only crews eligible for state championship games are these 15 crews, coaches pick whichever ones you can agree upon.  We will only take out "home chapter" crews if the teams are from different regions.  So the Houston crews will not be eligible for a Houston game.

HUDL usage goes up (good for officiating)
There is a system of equity (good for morale)

I honestly believe that if we went to the coaches with a plan they would be willing to try the plan.  We never approach them with an alternative so they keep doing what they have always done.

Would any crew from those 15 that are selected be able to work multiple games or would it be one and done?

[TXMike]

My ideal one would be very similar to Coby's. Understanding the completion of foul reports and zebraware is inconsistent around the state. That piece might have to be tweaked. 

Essentially, some sort of system where potential crews are identified early in the year so they can be evaluated by several different methods during the season and then a "selectee list". I am even willing to let UIL assign the crews to games if they use the evaluations that TASO provides. 

[Etref]

But with that plan you mix the "good ole boy system" back in

Who in the region gets to select the "top" crews for consideration???

[TexDoc]

Hit the wrong button....

[TexDoc]

I'm all for a fair evaluation system.  That opens the door to fighting among chapters, but something objective is better than allowing coaches to select.

[TexDoc]

UIL is the governing body for high school sports in Texas, right?  Why should UIL care if the coaches are happy or not...how would the coaches being unhappy affect UIL? 

Are you saying that UIL does something coaches dont like, that the coaches could withhold the playoff revenue from UIL???  That makes no sense...I thought that the UIL governs the contest and then distributes revenue to the schools.  UIL negotiates contracts with AT&T Stadium or NRG, or whomever, right?  The money would still flow through the UIL....maybe the schools would be encouraged to negotiate a revenue split that reduces the UIL's cut??

Is UIL afraid they will somehow no longer be the governing body if they do something good for the sport that removes something from the coaches?   

Maybe I dont understand the relationship with UIL and the schools?

Jason hit on most of this. 

UIL is not a compulsory organization for public schools.  They can choose what organization they want to join.  There just so happens to only be one game in town for public schools in Texas right now, the UIL.

The UIL is run by the TEA, through the University of Texas in Austin.  The rules of the UIL are voted upon by member school superintendents and approved by the TEA.  The Commissioner of Education and the Board of Education for the State of Texas is ultimately in charge, but they rarely, if ever, get involved with UIL issues.  They are essentially a rubber stamp.

Since the UIL makes the rules and the rules are approved by superintendents, if you want to be a member, and I don't know of any public school (outside of some charter schools) that are not members, then you play by the rules.  Currently, every UIL high school football playoff game in the state pays the UIL 15% of the gate receipts for each game.  That is a HUGE amount of money, so the more playoff games that are played, the more the UIL makes.  Thus, the playoffs have been expanding to more and more schools over the last 35 or so years.

[blindtxzebra]

The Coby Plan:

Every region submit 12 crews to be evaluated.  Each crews evaluation consists of HUDL film review.  They must submit a playlist of every penalty and coach complaint no call they had in (week 2,3,4,5,6,7 Friday games).  Easily verified thru Zware evals and foul reports.  Every crew that wishes to be put up for consideration for a state championship game must also submit a $100 evaluation fee.  I will verify that they submitted their evaluation correctly, then turn the "video resumes" over to the evaluators (not me).  Who will then choose the top 15 crews from across the state, and split the evaluation fee money between them. Then TASO states that the only crews eligible for state championship games are these 15 crews, coaches pick whichever ones you can agree upon.  We will only take out "home chapter" crews if the teams are from different regions.  So the Houston crews will not be eligible for a Houston game.

HUDL usage goes up (good for officiating)
There is a system of equity (good for morale)

I honestly believe that if we went to the coaches with a plan they would be willing to try the plan.  We never approach them with an alternative so they keep doing what they have always done.

How are chapters that do not utilize crews able to be eligible under this plan?

[TXMike]

Great point. I think they would submit a "crew" but then the eval work would be compounded as you would have to look at multiple games each week for them

[psv]

For the FTW schools, the coaches in both games picked the same crew.

We have this discussion every year around this time.  This my entertainment on my late December trips that my sales guy loves to schedule......

But, it is what it is.

There is *NO* solution that is currently being used, or that has been offered that will keep this thread (and its kid sister "why doesnt me/my chapter get more playoff games" thread) from happening.  None.  People say "there has to be a better way".  Really, does there?  The bottom line is this:  there are 10 games.  Thats it.  There are probably 100 crews in this state minimum that could effectively work a state championship game.  So 10% of those crews are going to get a game regardless of what system is being used.  There will be some % of the rest who are shut out that will complain about the unfairness of the system.

So right now, a Chapter gets picked either by UIL assigned or Mutual agreement of the coaches to use that chapter.  The chapter presents X amount of crews, or maybe the coaches have a specific crew in mind already (like the Tyler crew that snags a couple of Championship games every year).  If the Coaches pick crew A, and crew A was presented to multiple coaches if that chapter got multiple games, then Crew A can get multiple games.  The only way to avoid that would be not to present Crew A again.  But, if the coaches from the 2nd game know crew A exists, and that is who they want to use... then what, tell the no?  Heck NO!.  Crew A gets the 2nd game as well.  And that is OK with me because there is no system that is perfect.

Coby's plan is faught with just as many issues, they just come from the subjective point of view evaluation process.  You can talk about hudl, but at the end of the day, grades are given through human eyes, and the only way to make sure it is consistent, is to have one person do it.  Since none of us do this full time.... or unless TxMike is volunteering the rest of his days to grading hudl....

But, these threads allow me some enjoyment on the plane rides home 

[BlindZebra]

I think we are on the right track getting away from the coaches picking.  My first thought was to get the coaches to just agree on the chapter they can agree to use and let the assigning secretary send the crew that deserved it...but then you run into the chapters that have assigning secretaries that think their crew is that crew when they might or might not be.  Either way, you run into an unfair system again.

Then you have the Coby plan.  As that is a great idea, how do you determine who the 12 crews will be when you have the number of crews that Houston, San Antonio, Dallas and Fort Worth have?  The crews that don't get submitted will say they should be one of the 12.  It's a great plan if you can iron out the wrinkles to make it fair.

I like the Hudl grading idea, but who is going to grade that much film?  Which brings the idea of the 12 crews to lower the amount of film to grade, but then begs the question about the chapters that don't utilize crews.

I'm all for the system changing, the coaches hold too much power in my honest opinion.  But I can't think of a fair and unbiased way of doing it.  The only way I could think of doing it but would not be possible is to totally remove the coaches picking the crew for the game and have someone with no dog in the fight do the selections, either someone not on the field or someone not calling high school ball.  How do they go about picking the crew you ask?..film.  Each coach is required to submit film to the chapter, no exceptions.  How does the assigning secretary review all the film?...impossible which is why my plan fails.  If you can figure out how to get film graded and implement a grading system to differentiate the crews or positions, then you are on the right track.  But there is so much football played in the state that the film is so overwhelming you just cant do it all in one week.

Now, feel free to turn what I have said into Swiss cheese!

[Etref]

" But there is so much football played in the state that the film is so overwhelming you just cant do it all in one week."

As an example, I know that WAC at one time had 5-6 guys grading film each week with only 8 games a week. For Texas HS football we would need several hundred people (or more) to grade films.

[Coby]

Great conversation which is the first step to solving a problem

1.  Each region can determine how they get to the 12 crews.  I like the idea of local control.  Whatever works in Houston will not work in the Panhandle.  So let the regions decide. 

2.  Crews vs No Crews.  They would just have to use crews for 5-6 weeks.  Right now they are not getting invited to the dance.  If they change how they do things for 5-6 weeks then they will have an opportunity to get invited to the dance.  The local board can decide how to handle that.

3.  Yes lots of HUDL review which is why each crew comes up with a $100 eval cost

4.  Have no problem with expanding it to the last 3 rounds of the playoffs this way every crew has to get evaluated in a semi game or quarter game by a live person to then make the finals.

[Coby]

I really dont think the Coby Plan would take that long to evaluate.  1 game=12 fouls plus 8 plays that coaches want an explanation on.  So 1 game= app 20 plays so 6 games = 120 plays which is basically half of a game.

So 12 crews submitting 120 plays= 6 games worth of plays to watch per region.  I think there are 10 Regions so 60 games worth of film is all there will be to evaluate.

It is a best practice to pull all of your penalties after every game.  It would literally take me 10 minutes per game to create a playlist that meets the standards I laid out earlier.

If every crew is at the very least pulling their penalties to review they will by default become better.  I highly doubt that every region will have 12 crews go thru the application process.  At worse after all of this is done TASO State will have about 1200 penalties to create training modules from.

[Cowtown Ref]

Keep it Simple!!

Step 1  Stop Allowing Coaches to select crews!!!!!!!!!  PERIOD!  That means regular season too.

Step 2  Put the Finals on a rotation each year.  At the beginning of the year it is assigned what chapters will work what Final game.  And just rotate each year from that.  The chapter will then decide who goes to represent their chapter in whatever fashion they choose to do so.  Hopefully they will do whats best and rotate that as well with their better crews. 

Seems pretty damn simple to me!

YES someone will still get butthurt!  But that will ALWAYS be the case!

[Cowtown Ref]

Well didn't think about the fact of having a chapter with teams from his area in the finals!  lol

Obviously would just have to shuffle around based on that factor.

But the point is UIL assign chapters to a game.  Then chapter assign the crew!

It is completely the dumbest thing ever that they EVER allowed coaches to start requesting and selecting crews!  That for sure HAS to be reigned in before anything will begin to improve!

[Coby]

Cowtown... It all goes back to the same argument our founding fathers had.  Do you decide representation by population size or is every chapter equal.  So under your keep it simple idea Houston have 1000+ members is on the same rotation as Pecan Valley having 100 members?  Which is fine but realize if that happens Houston will immediately break into 10 separate chapters.

[Cowtown Ref]

You can play with that as well.  Maybe 2 to 1 on the bigger chapters.  Or every other year for the smaller.  Minor detail in the scheme of things to be figured out.

Just spread the wealth (oh lawd I sound like Obama) around and make it as fair as possible for ALL chapters!

But for God Sake, STOP LETTING COACHES have any say so in deciding who officiates their games!!!!!!

I run athletic leagues and programs as my profession and have been doing so for 21 years!  I WOULD NEVER EVER allow a coach to decide who I put on their field!  And Ive had TONS of coaches, tell me they don't want a certain umpire on their field.  My answer for 21 years has been, "sorry coach, not your call"! 

THAT HAS TO STOP!

[TexDoc]

But for God Sake, STOP LETTING COACHES have any say so in deciding who officiates their games!!!!!!

I attended a meeting at the UIL about 10 or 12 years ago when the present head of the UIL was the UIL athletic director.  The meeting was held to address officiating issues and concerns.  The one thing the good Dr. B said at the beginning of the meeting that he made clear to everyone, the "right" of coaches to agree upon officials will never change. 

Well, never say never, but even when he retires, I'm sure this will not change.  That "right," given to the coaches by the UIL, has always been misunderstood by many chapters as "the right to pick." 

Chapters will not change this, and the UIL sure won't, so any discussion along those lines is really a waste of time.

[Cowtown Ref]

Thanks for the info.  Good to know!

It is what it is, so moving on!

[BlindZebra]

You can play with that as well.  Maybe 2 to 1 on the bigger chapters.  Or every other year for the smaller.  Minor detail in the scheme of things to be figured out.

Just spread the wealth (oh lawd I sound like Obama) around and make it as fair as possible for ALL chapters!

But for God Sake, STOP LETTING COACHES have any say so in deciding who officiates their games!!!!!!

I run athletic leagues and programs as my profession and have been doing so for 21 years!  I WOULD NEVER EVER allow a coach to decide who I put on their field!  And Ive had TONS of coaches, tell me they don't want a certain umpire on their field.  My answer for 21 years has been, "sorry coach, not your call"! 

THAT HAS TO STOP!

Agree.  I also agree with passing the games around the chapter OR allowing the coaches to agree to a chapter, but cannot pick the crew.  I am fine with them agreeing to a chapter.  Might not have great representation passed around the many chapters of the state, but it does pull some power away form the coaches and still pleases them in the sense that they can agree on what chapter to use...that I think is fair.  It also eliminates the worry of a Houston crew assigned a Houston school game and the reassigning issue that could be faced.  But, having the chapter select the officiating crew would be more crooked then the coaches selecting the crew, in my opinion.  Unless you have someone selecting the crews for the games that is either fair and passes the opportunity around or doesn't have any skin in the game, then my fear is that the individual selecting will be more favorable to the crew he is on and his good ole boys then the chapter as a whole.

To you Coby, maybe 12 fouls on average, but even then why just grade the fouls?  Why wouldn't you grade the entire game?  What if some of the crews that are selected miss more than they call?  I wouldn't want something like that to be in a State game.  I believe the whole game needs to be graded instead of the plays the coach submits and the fouls that are called.  But for your process to work, only grading the fouls called and the coaches plays work.  I cant remember if I read it, but what is the selection process for the 12 crews?  How are they eligible and do you have a restriction for the following years?  If they are part of the 12 selected, are they eligible for 1 season? 2 seasons?  Just wanting to understand because that is a smart idea.

I think that "right" can be changed.  Anything can change!  To be honest, it is a conflict of interest!  Officials tiptoe around rules and fouls because the coach might not like the particular call and that call might cause the coach to not pick us in the playoffs or ever again.

[TxSkyBolt]

I really dont think the Coby Plan would take that long to evaluate.  1 game=12 fouls plus 8 plays that coaches want an explanation on.  So 1 game= app 20 plays so 6 games = 120 plays which is basically half of a game.

So 12 crews submitting 120 plays= 6 games worth of plays to watch per region.  I think there are 10 Regions so 60 games worth of film is all there will be to evaluate.

It is a best practice to pull all of your penalties after every game.  It would literally take me 10 minutes per game to create a playlist that meets the standards I laid out earlier.

If every crew is at the very least pulling their penalties to review they will by default become better.  I highly doubt that every region will have 12 crews go thru the application process.  At worse after all of this is done TASO State will have about 1200 penalties to create training modules from.

If you only want to evaluate quality of calls made but I think equally relevant are fouls not called that should have been.  That would require looking at every play. That's also the only way to evaluate and a grade mechanics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TexDoc]

This is the 2015 Sunset Advisory Commission report on the UIL, from February 2015.  It is an interesting read if you have a while to waste.

https://www.sunset.texas.gov/public/uploads/files/reports/UIL%20Agency%20Section.pdf