Ref knocked out by player

[UmpSC]

Here we go again....

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/11/12877062/mt-san-antonio-college-football-player-referee

[Brian26]

First let me start by saying a player should never do this and he should be charged with assault. With that being said, I don't know about other associations but in ours we are taught not to put our hands on players and definitely not to get involved in any physical conflicts. If a fight happens we are told to step back, let coaches and administration handle it and take down player numbers involved. I think in this situation this would not have happened if the ref wouldn't have tried to restrain the player.

[Etref]

Depends on what your supervisor wants. In HS, you are correct, step back and take numbers. In college different story sometimes

[Wettstein]

I agree that the official was being overly "authoritative".  However, If I'm the coach, that kid is off the team period.

[AlUpstateNY]

Are you serious?  Other than reminding us, of risk involved "no effort (at a good deed) can go unpunished", whether, or not this player's behavior satisfies the legal definition of ASSAULT should be determined by appropriate Civil Authorities.   

[yarnnelg]

On arrival the police went upstairs and watched the recording. The player was arrested and San Antonio has been advised by the league that he has been suspended for 5 years.

[hefnerjm]

Good to see a strong, swift, meaningful action taken.
For clarification, this was a college in California...not in Texas.

On the topic of the officials actions, I have heard it said that officials have been sued for:
A) getting involved to breakup a fight,
AND
b) NOT getting involved to breakup a fight.

I see serious concerns when officials are told to stand back and let it happen and "take numbers".  That just allows chaos to reign and incidents like this will increase in frequency.  We are there to bring order to an emotional game.  If we cant do that, whether by rule or by support of our associations, then why are we there?

[ncwingman]

On the topic of the officials actions, I have heard it said that officials have been sued for:
A) getting involved to breakup a fight,
AND
b) NOT getting involved to breakup a fight.

To be fair though, anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. However, whether or not the suit has merit and the decision is in favor of the plaintiff is another factor entirely. Usually, the sensational news story is just that the lawsuit was filed -- and when it gets dismissed for being absurd, there's no followup.

I'm sure some parent has filed a suit against an official for not throwing a flag on a play where their kid got hurt, and it got a lot of media attention for the absurdity of it -- but since it was absurd, nothing came of it in actual court.

[DallasLJ]

To be fair though, anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. However, whether or not the suit has merit and the decision is in favor of the plaintiff is another factor entirely. Usually, the sensational news story is just that the lawsuit was filed -- and when it gets dismissed for being absurd, there's no followup.

I'm sure some parent has filed a suit against an official for not throwing a flag on a play where their kid got hurt, and it got a lot of media attention for the absurdity of it -- but since it was absurd, nothing came of it in actual court.

  Which I why I have said earlier on the other thread on the USC player -- you have to read the situation and make a judgment call on whether you can stop something before it gets started -- preventive officiating -- or its time to get out of the way and take down numbers for ejections and let the coaches handle it.  Here, the official separated the player -- away from the defense. I say, good for him.  Then the player turned out to be an idiot --  and got arrested for his behavior.  Now, the official should sue him (and the school if he has a history of violence issues that they knew about.

[ALStripes17]

Good to see a strong, swift, meaningful action taken.
For clarification, this was a college in California...not in Texas.

On the topic of the officials actions, I have heard it said that officials have been sued for:
A) getting involved to breakup a fight,
AND
b) NOT getting involved to breakup a fight.

I see serious concerns when officials are told to stand back and let it happen and "take numbers".  That just allows chaos to reign and incidents like this will increase in frequency.  We are there to bring order to an emotional game.  If we cant do that, whether by rule or by support of our associations, then why are we there?

I see serious concern with jumping into the middle of a battle of which we have no side.

No rule or mechanic tells us to grab players to control them. We are supposed to have a presence and if that presence isn't enough to stop an egregious action, then all we can do is write and enforce as the rules are written.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[ncwingman]

Now, the official should sue him (and the school if he has a history of violence issues that they knew about.

This is partially where lawsuits get weird as well.

Civil suits are meant to remedy a situation where a person is wronged and needs to be "made whole". In this case, the official was wronged by being assaulted and therefore now has medical bills to pay. He can be "made whole" by having the offending party cover these costs.

Here's the really fun part -- the official probably won't sue anybody personally, no matter what. He'll get treatment and submit the claim to his insurance. His insurance then wants to recoup their money since somebody else was criminally at fault for causing the injury. His insurance then goes after the kid's insurance -- except that he probably doesn't have any that would cover this (or not enough). The school probably does, so they go after the school's insurance as well. The kid's and school's insurance, like any insurance, won't pay without a fight, and so the officials insurance files a suit -- except that they can't. The insurance company wasn't "wronged", the official was... but insurance companies can file lawsuits on your behalf (that's part of the deal in your policy) and they can't sue the other person's insurance directly, but rather just that person and then the insurance covers their losses (that's why you're insured).

At the end of the day, we have a news story about the official suing the player and school, when it's really just legal wrangling involving insurance companies.

You can't just sue somebody because you feel like they deserve punishment. There has to be an "injury" and a "remedy". If you try suing the school because "they should have known better" and therefore you deserve some money, it probably won't get too far in court. Also, his insurance company won't be happy if he starts filing lawsuits before they do.

However, that's a long ramble that's getting a bit off topic. Personally, I'm 5 foot nothing, a hundred and nothing and have barely a speck of athletic ability. I'm not getting in the middle of any sort of scuffle on the field, as the only thing I'd do is "get hurt". My insurance company would probably end up saying "That was your own fault, son."

[DallasLJ]

Thanks NC for the eloquent explanation of subrogation by insurance carriers (ie suing on your behalf).

  In Texas, if you have been around a while, we had a subrogation case against an official.  Short version -- playoff game.  Interception so flow goes opposite direction.  LJ heads up field head watching players -- and makes contact with a coach who goes to the turf and hits his head.  Coach had major brain injury -- life limiting brain injury -- and his insurance carrier sues all the officials.  Officials and their insurance carrier refuse to settle and obtain a Summary Judgment against the Coach (really his insurance carrier).

[GAHSUMPIRE]

Personally, I'm 5 foot nothing, a hundred and nothing and have barely a speck of athletic ability. I

I didn't know "Rudy" was an official.   

[WingOfficial]

  Here, the official separated the player -- away from the defense. I say, good for him. 

But then he continues to physically control the player after he is clear from the confrontation.  I think that's what got him in trouble.  Watching the video, the referee is still restraining/moving the player away from the other team when they are entirely away from the other team and surrounded by teammates.  If he had released the player once he was away from the dark jerseys and surrounded by light jerseys, then this player likely wouldn't have swung at him.