More on Concussion Research

[Rulesman]

Good read...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/09/sports/football/what-happened-within-this-players-skull-football-concussions.html

[Ralph Damren]

Good read, thanks Rulesman. A big portion of our NFHS meeting deals with safety issues such as this. I'll report to you guys any finding they have that may be of interest.

[goodgrr]

The NFL slapped Miami today for failing to follow the concussion protocol in their wild card loss to the Steelers.

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-Statement-on-Moore-Concussion-Protocol-Review.aspx

[Rulesman]

Kind of surprised a hand slap was all they got.

[BrendanP]

Articles like this are why I think we're doomed no matter what we do. In my opinion, they have not just stepped over, but sprinted past the proverbial line between genuine concern and a smear campaign. What these articles don't ever tell you is that the reason that this disease is seen almost exclusively in pro football players and to a far lesser degree college and high school is the difference in speed and skill at the different levels, plus the recently-discovered and widely underreported correlation between steroid use and brain damage.

Now again, this is simply my opinion, but we have watered down football in the name of player safety to the point where I can't watch the NCAA anymore because of that godawful rule. But you'd think that dramatic and reactionary rule changes would be enough to satisfy the PC crowd that is running around convincing people that the NFL is killing players for profit.

I hate to say it, but I think we're doomed. I think that Pandora's Box has been opened and even if we took the pads away and made them play rugby style, we still would not be able to convince people to let their kids play the greatest sport ever invented. (Never mind that this kind of media assault was never laid on hockey or soccer, two other high-risk sports for concussions) In fact (and sorry to expose my political leanings), I have a feeling that my adopted home state of California will be the first to ban sub-college football. Considering it's the state that banned free grocery bags and slapped a "this product causes cancer" label on every single product on the store shelves, I don't think it's hard to see the state that has already strictly regulated football practice going and banning it altogether.

I hope I'm wrong and I pray that one day this madness will stop so we can go back to the good old days of football and get back to our regularly scheduled programming. But if this all-out onslaught on our sport continues, I think we're reaching the end of the line.

[Grant - AR]

Articles like this are why I think we're doomed no matter what we do. In my opinion, they have not just stepped over, but sprinted past the proverbial line between genuine concern and a smear campaign. What these articles don't ever tell you is that the reason that this disease is seen almost exclusively in pro football players and to a far lesser degree college and high school is the difference in speed and skill at the different levels, plus the recently-discovered and widely underreported correlation between steroid use and brain damage.

Can you post an article about this?  I haven't heard this (I haven't been looking for it either).  I'm curious as to how much research has been done and what the correlations between steroid use and brain damage are.

(Never mind that this kind of media assault was never laid on hockey or soccer, two other high-risk sports for concussions)

I may be remembering this wrong, but I think I remember seeing where many soccer associations have banned heading the ball because of this.  I work with a lady who's daughter was a soccer player and was injured pretty badly because of headers.  I'll agree there has been much less media around it, but I think a lot of that has to do with the prominence of the sport in the country.  You don't see much about soccer on ESPN, but you see (American) football all the time.

[BrendanP]

This one is from an organization promoting steroid prevention: http://anabolic.org/steroids-may-cause-brain-damage/

From steroidabuse.com: NEUROLOGICAL ISSUES

Studies have confirmed steroid abuse has a long term effect on the neurological pathways of the brain. Depending on the age when steroids are taken, the effects can sometimes be permanent. For example, abusing steroids in the teenage years of development has shown to affect the brain’s ability to properly produce serotonin, the enzyme tied with our sense of well-being. This tampering with serotonin can lead to permanent increases in depression and aggression. In women, this hormonal tampering can also lead to significantly lower levels of progesterone and estrogen, potentially upsetting the delicate balance of female chemistry and inducing severe anxiety and depression.

In both men and women steroid abusers, evidence of “roid rage” or increased aggression from too much testosterone is a hotly contested topic. However, in animal studies, the relationship between steroids and aggression has always been pretty clear.

In some studies, more than 80 percent of steroid-treated animals become extremely aggressive. In humans, the picture has been clouded by alternative explanations and a lack of hard evidence. Only in recent years have researchers been able to confirm that steroid-induced aggression is a real human phenomenon that can occur in individuals who take large doses of steroids for extended periods of time. This heightened aggression can lead to irritability, stress, and violence.

When the circuits in the brain that are responsible for impulse control are influenced by steroids, it affects this system that inhibits aggressive response, predisposing some abusers to violent outbursts. Researchers do not yet know the key as to why some abusers are more affected than others, but the correlation between steroids and aggressive behavior is a documented phenomenon.

From LiveStrong.com: http://www.livestrong.com/article/101466-mental-side-effects-steroids/

That's the most I can find. If you're interested in a bit of bias, this guy reports on some of the research, but articulates the point I'm making better about the SJW crowd: https://www.campuspressbox.com/2016/is-cte-settled-science-its-symptoms-are-similar-to-those-found-with-steroid-use/

[Rulesman]

You're a man alone on an island, Brendan.

[bama_stripes]

I can see it now:  California teens gathered in secluded fields illuminated by car lights for clandestine games of football, hoping to stay one step ahead of the cops.

You may be right, Brendan, but thankfully (given my age) I probably won't live to see it.

[VALJ]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I think I remember seeing where many soccer associations have banned heading the ball because of this.  I work with a lady who's daughter was a soccer player and was injured pretty badly because of headers.  I'll agree there has been much less media around it, but I think a lot of that has to do with the prominence of the sport in the country.  You don't see much about soccer on ESPN, but you see (American) football all the time.

In regards to hockey and soccer concussion coverage:

1.  Follow the money.  There's a lot more money in football at all levels than there is in hockey or soccer at the equivalent levels. 
2.  Football has a higher profile in this country than hockey and soccer combined.  Where's the media coverage going to go?

[BrendanP]

You're a man alone on an island, Brendan.

Maybe in the officiating arena, but everyone I know outside the bubble agrees with me: this has got to stop.
And Bama, you know what I meant. They'd ban organized under-18 football because of the fear of brain damage.

[Blackandwhite]

Ever have had a concussion? Talked to a player before or at the beginning of his (lets say long) career and then 25+ years later? With old school football games and training and 20+ concussions?
I don`t think so. If you stay in officating business you might have the chance to speek to quite healthy players  in 2030.

The old world with "bull in the ring" & die hard tackling in every second training to prove strength is gone. And thats good....The helmet is not a weapon ....
Wake up or you will drown on your island.

[scrounge]

Maybe in the officiating arena, but everyone I know outside the bubble agrees with me: this has got to stop.
And Bama, you know what I meant. They'd ban organized under-18 football because of the fear of brain damage.

You should probably get to know more people then, this is never going back to the 'old days'. And I'm very glad that it isn't.

[Grant - AR]

This one is from an organization promoting steroid prevention: http://anabolic.org/steroids-may-cause-brain-damage/...

While there is some potential evidence out there that steroid abuse could lead to brain damage based on the articles you posted, the evidence is definitely out there that concussions can cause CTE. 

According to the last link you posted:
CTE, as defined by the Boston University CTE Center, is a “progressive degenerative disease of the brain found in athletes (and others) with a history of repetitive brain trauma, including symptomatic concussions as well as asymptomatic subconcussive hits to the head.”

CTE, which is what football is trying to prevent, has nothing to do with steroids by the very definition of the condition.  It is based on repetitive brain trauma and hits to the head.

If, as you are trying to argue here, steroids can cause brain damage, why do we not see a lot of instances of brain damage in profession baseball players?  We all know how rampant steroid use was in the MLB 20+ years ago.

You are trying to fight a battle that has already been decided.  There's no going back to the days when football was a lot more dangerous because players used their heads are weapons.  Like 99% of the folks out there, I'm glad we are getting away from that.

[BrendanP]

I don't remember the days when helmets were used as weapons. The tackling when I was a kid wasn't much different from what it is today. What was good about those days was that you didn't have an average of 3 ejections a game. You didn't have to worry about just plain dumb rule changes, like it being illegal to pull a player off the pile or having to come out of the game if the helmet came off, or not being able to block below the waist except in extremely limited circumstances.

You didn't have to worry about getting a flag any time the tackle was anything more than just a wrap-up. That's what I miss about the good old days, and that's what I'll fight until the day I die to get football back to. I'm even willing to run for office.

I grew up imagining myself as the white hat with the mic. But that's when football officials were seen and not heard, the way it was meant to be. They let the players do their thing and threw the flag when necessary, but if you got ejected from a game, you actually earned it by throwing a punch or something like that. Those were the good old days. At least the NFL had the sense for the most part not to go down that road.

[Grant - AR]

What was good about those days was that you didn't have an average of 3 ejections a game.

Please back this up with some data.  I was in 12 NCAA football games this year and there were targeting fouls in 4 of them.  That's an average of 1 every 3 games...not 3 per game.

You didn't have to worry about just plain dumb rule changes, like it being illegal to pull a player off the pile or having to come out of the game if the helmet came off, or not being able to block below the waist except in extremely limited circumstances.

Well, the first "dumb" rule change has prevented more ejections.  I remember a few times when a player pulled an opponent off the pile and the opponent retaliated by throwing a punch.  Not allowing players to pull others off a pile is a great example of preventive officiating.

As far as the rule changes dealing with the helmet coming off or blocking below the waist, those are in regards to player safety.  Those will, potentially, allow players to play longer and have a better quality of life after their playing careers are over.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

That's what I miss about the good old days, and that's what I'll fight until the day I die to get football back to. I'm even willing to run for office.

Please do not run for office to try and change football.  With all the problems we have in our country, we don't need legislators sticking their noses into sports.  There are much bigger and more important things they should be focused on.

At least the NFL had the sense for the most part not to go down that road.

If you remember, the NFL started the whole thing about concussions, etc. because of lawsuits by former players.