Helping the Runner

[ref4e]

Had a situation Friday night where, on a QB sneak, two running backs crashed the QB's back just before he broke the plane of the goal line.   It appeared to me that even the backs hitting him did not propel him any harder or faster than he was already going, so I kept the flag in my pocket...and took an earful from the opposing coach for doing so.   

On TV, I've seen the same thing in many games at college level with no flag, either.   What criteria do the white hats on here use in determining whether or not to call a helping the runner foul on a similar play?

[CalhounLJ]

Generally, if players crash a pile the way you suggest, I interpret it as just that- crashing the pile. If however players are pulling at a runner, or dragging him in a particular direction, that’s helping the runner. Pushing the runner can also be helping the runner if I can determine the helper is pushing primarily the runner.


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[GA Umpire]

Had a situation Friday night where, on a QB sneak, two running backs crashed the QB's back just before he broke the plane of the goal line.   It appeared to me that even the backs hitting him did not propel him any harder or faster than he was already going, so I kept the flag in my pocket...and took an earful from the opposing coach for doing so.   

On TV, I've seen the same thing in many games at college level with no flag, either.   What criteria do the white hats on here use in determining whether or not to call a helping the runner foul on a similar play?

9.1 Situation: indicates that the action by the backs should result in a flag for helping the runner.
White hats???  Ralph, KWH

[dch]

"crashing the pile" is an interesting situation.  Higher level games on TV don't do us any favors.  What do you do when pushing or crashing the pile involves crashing an opponent in the back?

[Ia-Ref]

Since officials balk at calling assisting the runner a foul and penalizing, I propose a rule change that ends the down when such assistance occurs.  No foul and no additional yardage with illegal help.

[CalhounLJ]

Sounds like a good idea but I predict predictable results. If we don’t call that helping the runner now, we probably wouldn’t blow it dead then.


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[Birddog]

"crashing the pile" is an interesting situation.  Higher level games on TV don't do us any favors.  What do you do when pushing or crashing the pile involves crashing an opponent in the back?

In NCAA it is no longer illegal to push the pile or runner, rule does state that you cannot pull the runner.  It is referred to as the "Bush Push", USC used it to push Reggie Bush over the goal line against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl.  I think it was the next year or shortly after they changed the rule probably because it was never called.

[AlUpstateNY]

"crashing the pile" is an interesting situation.  Higher level games on TV don't do us any favors.  What do you do when pushing or crashing the pile involves crashing an opponent in the back?

At the NFHS level it's still "push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress" (9-1).  I was told it's a safety concern, as a couple of teammates trying to force a 150 pound tail back through a couple of 250 pound defensive linemen, can be more problematic at the Interscholastic level.

[FLAHL]

I called it once. On a sneak, the RB put both hands in the middle of the QB’s back and pushed like he was pushing a broken down car.  I don’t call it for crashing the pile.

[CalhounLJ]

There was a discussion about this on this board a year or two ago. This issue then revolved around the question of whether it was legal to push the pile or block defenders who are part of the pile as opposed to the runner. I think the agreement was it is legal to block defenders who are engaged in trying to tackle the runner. To throw a flag for helping the runner you would need to be certain the player was indeed trying to help the individual in his effort to advance the ball. 


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[CalhounLJ]

I have thrown a flag for this in the past. A big ole lineman caught his teammate ball carrier who was about to fall and literally threw him forward for a first down.


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[bbeagle]

I have thrown a flag for this in the past. A big ole lineman caught his teammate ball carrier who was about to fall and literally threw him forward for a first down.

Yep, that's the usual way I've called it - when the offensive player is a yard or two ahead of the ball carrier and pulls the ball carrier towards him to a first down or touchdown.

When there is a scrum and the pile keeps moving, and everyone is pushing everyone, I haven't called it.

[SouthGARef]

Coming into the pile is nothing.

I called helping the runner last year. QB sneak and running back just came in with both of his hand pushing the QB clear as day. The coach got confused with the college rule where pushing is legal.

[dch]

So, what about pushing an opponent in the back while trying to move the pile?
Also, what if the Offensive player comes in hard to knock off the tackler(s) or to advance the runner?  The defensive player engaged with the runner probably doesn't see the blocker coming.

[CalhounLJ]

Good questions. What are your thoughts?

[ncwingman]

It is referred to as the "Bush Push", USC used it to push Reggie Bush over the goal line against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl. 

Bush pushed Leinart at Notre Dame....

Yes, the NCAA rule disallows grasping, pulling and lifting, but not pushing... anymore.

[Ralph Damren]

Since officials balk at calling assisting the runner a foul and penalizing, I propose a rule change that ends the down when such assistance occurs.  No foul and no additional yardage with illegal help.

I followed this guideline for the last several years without a problem. Once big ole' Bubba begins to push his teammate, the runner, I tweet my tweeter and announce : "THE RUNNER'S FORWARD PROGRESS WAS STOPPED AND THE BALL'S DEAD  ." .To a questioning offensive coach : "Coach, my other choice would be a  for helping the runner. " It seems to work and 2-15-1 & 9-1 give me rule support.

[VALJ]

One very-well respected official in our association threw this flag in a game I was working with him.  When the coach wanted to discuss it with him (by yelling across the field, of course), Hank told him it was because the running back came up right behind the QB and pushed him into the pile with two hands. Hank also told him that he hadn't flagged it earlier in the drive, when the running back just hit the pile to try and push the whole pile.

[yarnnelg]

My one and only assisting the runner call. Fullback in front of the halfback turns around, grabs the jersey and pulls the back into the endzone. The jersey was stretched about three feet in front of the halfback. Threw the flag, coach was laughing hard "kinda removes all doubt about assisting the runner, ya think?"