Coach arrested after altercation

[TXMike]

https://www.yourbasin.com/news/footage-reveals-altercation-that-led-to-sanderson-football-coach-arrest/1454904875

[HLinNC]

Grabbing your own player is usually not a problem and is expected.  Grabbing the other team's player is a recipe for disaster.

[JasonTX]

Do all those flags really need to be thrown?  Just stand back and be a witness and write numbers down.  No need for 10 flags to be tossed.

[js in sc]

Remember, if you are ejecting someone for coming on to the field during a fight, you ought to have thrown a flag for fighting.  Our crew got taken to the woodshed several years ago for ejecting a player for coming off the bench for a fight but no one flagged the fight.

[JasonTX]

Remember, if you are ejecting someone for coming on to the field during a fight, you ought to have thrown a flag for fighting.  Our crew got taken to the woodshed several years ago for ejecting a player for coming off the bench for a fight but no one flagged the fight.

I don't disagree with putting a flag down but every official throwing flags seems like overkill.  It looks like every official tossed every flag they had.  I've seen flags end up missing in situations like this. 

[ncwingman]

The last flag at the end is thrown incorrectly, however. USC flags are "signal flares". They do not mark the spot of enforcement -- so if you're flagging the coach that's running across the field, trying to hit him with the flag will only cause more problems than it solves.

[walkintall]

Remember, if you are ejecting someone for coming on to the field during a fight, you ought to have thrown a flag for fighting.  Our crew got taken to the woodshed several years ago for ejecting a player for coming off the bench for a fight but no one flagged the fight.

I was in a game where 2 players were ejected for coming off of the sideline and there was no fight to flag. A pass was broken up hard(before defenseless player provisions) by a B player. The A player was writhing in agony on the field as the defender stood over him flexing and posing. I flagged this action. When the rest of A saw what was going on, A players on the field went running to their guy. Players of B go running to their guy. Absolutely nothing happens. No pushing, no shoving, no bumping. But two A players come running onto the field "to help."

I know the rule says "during a fight." But, ejecting them seems like in keeping with the spirit of the rule, to me.

[Legacy Zebra]

I disagree. There is no spirit vs letter argument in that case. When a kid gets 10 games a year, you better be right when you DQ him. Make it a UNS, sure because he absolutely left the bench to do something other than participate in the game. But how do you explain the DQ to a supervisor or his coach when you have no rule support?

[walkintall]

I disagree. There is no spirit vs letter argument in that case. When a kid gets 10 games a year, you better be right when you DQ him. Make it a UNS, sure because he absolutely left the bench to do something other than participate in the game. But how do you explain the DQ to a supervisor or his coach when you have no rule support?

I'm not sure and flags only may be the right way to handle it. I was a newer official when this happened and I was working HL and it was players from the other bench. I didn't know anyone had come off of the bench until after everything was done. We had already had an ejection for fighting earlier in this game in a separate incident...and that may have been, whether rightly or wrongly, the reasoning used for their dq.

What would you do if the benches empty and no fight ever occurs....kind of like what happens fairly often in MLB? UNS for eveyone? If one team has 10 more players than the other, do they get 10 more UNS?

[Legacy Zebra]

I know this is the general board, so I can’t speak for any NFHS officials that may be seeing this. But I’m TX or an NCAA game, I would give every player of both teams a UNS. This has been supported by the national coordinator as acceptable when you have benches clear with no fight. They all offset, so there’s no yardage marked off, but everybody now has 1 UNS to their credit and a second one earns a DQ. If a player already had a UNS before the incident, they are now DQ’d.

[Ralph Damren]

I know this is the general board, so I can’t speak for any NFHS officials that may be seeing this. But I’m TX or an NCAA game, I would give every player of both teams a UNS. This has been supported by the national coordinator as acceptable when you have benches clear with no fight. They all offset, so there’s no yardage marked off, but everybody now has 1 UNS to their credit and a second one earns a DQ. If a player already had a UNS before the incident, they are now DQ’d.

While the NCAA code allows multiple DB fouls of an uneven number to offset, NFHS does not. The team with the most players would get penalized the worst!

[ncwingman]

While the NCAA code allows multiple DB fouls of an uneven number to offset, NFHS does not. The team with the most players would get penalized the worst!

A few years ago, I remember seeing a high school game on ESPN where they got (and probably subsidized) two good teams from different states to play each other on national TV. One team was from Ohio, and played the game at home -- and since it was the big TV game, they dressed over 100 players. They had issues with everybody fitting in the team box.

The other team had to travel a couple hours to get there and they did.... not.... dress over 100 players.

There would probably have been a 40-50 person disparity in those fouls if it was that game.

[Legacy Zebra]

In that case, find the instigators, tag them with it, and let everybody else know that there is zero leniency going forward.

[walkintall]

I know this is the general board, so I can’t speak for any NFHS officials that may be seeing this. But I’m TX or an NCAA game, I would give every player of both teams a UNS. This has been supported by the national coordinator as acceptable when you have benches clear with no fight. They all offset, so there’s no yardage marked off, but everybody now has 1 UNS to their credit and a second one earns a DQ. If a player already had a UNS before the incident, they are now DQ’d.

This just happened in the Florida/ Vandy game. A player with a prior UNS was dq'd.

Thanks

[Ralph Damren]

Several years ago I was working a state championship game with about a minute to play and the team with the ball up by +20. The following were the high/low lights :

(1) QB attempts to take a knee;
(2) QB gets kneed;
(3) all Heaven (I know I can't say the opposite ) breaks loose;
(4) many local ADs are issued sideline passes and are called security;
(5) a dozen of the fittest came running out to regain law and order ;
(6) my fellow and I  began writing down numbers;
(7) when the smoke cleared, we had  on the losing team &  on the leaders;
(8) my math (6-2 =4 X 15 =60) told me I would be sending Mr. Umpire on a 60 yard journey;
(9) both coaches approached me and said in unison : "We don't need to play anymore " ;
(10) Mr.  Umpire took off his hiking boots.

The coaches made a wise decision....and the bands played on....

[JasonTX]

(8) my math (6-2 =4 X 15 =60) told me I would be sending Mr. Umpire on a 60 yard journey;

In Texas if we have                    on 1 team and    on the other we signal  and the umpire doesn't have to move anywhere.  All it takes is 1 knucklehead to offset all the knuckleheads from the other team

[Ralph Damren]

In Texas if we have                    on 1 team and    on the other we signal  and the umpire doesn't have to move anywhere.  All it takes is 1 knucklehead to offset all the knuckleheads from the other team

Back when we had "order of occurrence" on dueling DB fouls, I proposed adoption of the NCAA rule. It went down in flames with the rebuttal : "But the team with the most DB fouls gets off easy!!!"
The following year I submitted rule as is today. It passed with flying colors. A majority feel that no foul should go unpunished.