Rules Questions on test

[tstearns1]

I've got 2 questions on my rules test I'm a bit shaky on. I'd like some input before submitting my answers:
1/10, B-25. All Team A players are set for one second. A22 then starts in motion laterally to the left. While he is still moving, back A33 goes in motion laterally to the right. While A33 is still in motion, A22 stops and sets up as a flanker to the left. A33 is still moving at the snap. A11 sweeps wide on a keeper and scores a touchdown.
My options are A. Illegal Shift  B. Illegal formation  C. Illegal motion  D. Illegal Snap.
I read rule 7-2-7 and 7-2-6. I'm confident that illegal formation and illegal snap are not correct answers.

The other question is:
1/10, B-40. After the ball has been made ready for play, substitute A22 runs from his team area onto the field of play. He pauses at the top of the numbers and then realizes that he is the 12th man, so he turns and hustles back to his team area. The ball has not been snapped.
My options are A. Illegal substitution B. No Foul  C. Illegal participation  D. Illegal formation
I can rule out illegal participation and illegal formation. When I read rule 3-7-6 it says "During a down, a replaced player or sub who enters the field, but does not participate, constitutes illegal sub. Since the player got off the field before the ball was snapped, I'm leaning toward no foul here.
I read rule 3-7 and rule 9-6.

Thank you in advance for your input and advice.

[HLinNC]

A22 then starts in motion laterally to the left. While he is still moving, back A33 goes in motion laterally to the right.

Illegal shift- you can never have two in motion at the same time.  All players have to be set for one second before another can go in motion.

pauses at the top of the numbers

Illegal sub- once he paused at the numbers he was in formation with 12 A players.

[refjeff]

Illegal shift.

No Foul.  "A substitute becomes a player when he enters the field and communicates with a teammate or game official, enters the huddle, is positioned in a formation or participates in the play."  If A22 had assumed the stance of a wide receiver at the top of the numbers on or near the LOS then he would have established himself as a player, but I do not read where he did that.  So he can come off without a foul.

[FLAHL]

pauses at the top of the numbers

Illegal sub- once he paused at the numbers he was in formation with 12 A players.

I’m with NC on this one. Illegal substitution.  Advantage gained by A because at least one B player is likely to be paying attention to the A player who shouldn’t be on the field.

[CalhounLJ]

I have no foul on the second. The requirements for a substitute becoming a player are clear:
1. Communicates with a teammate or game official OR
2. Enters the huddle OR
3. Is positioned in a formation OR
4. Participates in the play. OR
This substitute did not do any of those, therefore he is not subject to the enter/withdraw restriction. He can leave without penalty.

[HLinNC]

3. Is positioned in a formation OR


What do you two consider being positioned in formation if he's entered the numbers and paused?
A now has 12 players on the field, whether its a boo-boo or not, it's a foul.  There is no requirement to "assume a stance". 

You may let it slide in a game, that's your choice, but the OP is asking for help with a test question. Surely you know for test purposes that one answers with what should be done.
.

[refjeff]

3. Is positioned in a formation OR


What do you two consider being positioned in formation if he's entered the numbers and paused?
A now has 12 players on the field, whether its a boo-boo or not, it's a foul.  There is no requirement to "assume a stance". 

You may let it slide in a game, that's your choice, but the OP is asking for help with a test question. Surely you know for test purposes that one answers with what should be done.
.

Exactly.  Since there is nothing in the test question which suggests A22 was positioned in a formation I do not have a foul.

[CalhounLJ]

Well, surely you agree that a substitute can pause on the field without being in formation, can't he? There are several places on the field where this could happen. For example, we don't know from the test question whether the top of the numbers at which he paused was even on his team's side of the ball. We know he came in from his team area, but that will happen every time. Also, he could have paused at the top of the number 20yds away from the line of scrimmage. Would you consider either of those as being positioned in a formation? The test question clearly is asking us to determine whether A has become a player and withdrawn. While I agree your position COULD be correct, the information we have is not sufficient. IMO, the pause was most probably done not because he had assumed a position in the formation, but instead because he realized he was about to mess up. Big difference.

[NVFOA_Ump]

The wording of the test question is IMHO looking for the no foul answer.  There is nothing in the question as stated that would trigger a flag here.  He has to come inside the numbers (to be legal) AND ……. as noted by several posts above, that 2nd part is required to get a flag.  When answering a test question we should not assume any language that is not in the original question is somehow implied.

[HLinNC]

3.7.3 SITUATION C:

With fourth and 5 from B's 40, B12 enters and takes a position as a punt-returner and the replaced player leaves the field. B12 then realizes A is not going to punt and he returns to his team box.

RULING: Illegal substitution. B12 became a player when he positioned in the formation and he must remain in the game for at least one down unless a penalty is accepted, a dead-ball foul occurs, there is a charged time-out or the period ends. (2-32)

[CalhounLJ]

Good find. Do you see the difference in the two situations?  There’s obviously a difference between merely pausing and taking a position as a player


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[Derek Teigen]

A22 then starts in motion laterally to the left. While he is still moving, back A33 goes in motion laterally to the right.

Illegal shift- you can never have two in motion at the same time.  All players have to be set for one second before another can go in motion.]

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Would it be more precise to say this?  You CAN have two in motion at the same time but all players have to be set for one full second before the snap of the ball.

[CalhounLJ]

Yes. In fact all players can be in motion at the same time. Breaking the huddle is an example of that shift. But they all have to be set for at least one second before the snap. Except of course for that one player who, after he becomes set for a second can go in motion and remain in motion at the snap.


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[Curious]

As to the second question, I'm inclined to pass on a flag here IF ALL of these factors exist:

1. his recognition of his error is "almost immediate" (and withdrawal can be completed before the snap)
2. the snap is not iminent
3. and he doesn't draw a defender

This might not meet the "letter of the law" but IMHO, "no harm no foul".  The crew has to do it's player count and signalling; so if he can get so all this before those pre-snap requirements are completed, why call it?

If you MUST get the answer "right", go with DBF - Illegal Substitution

[VALJ]

Would it be more precise to say this?  You CAN have two in motion at the same time but all players have to be set for one full second before the snap of the ball.

Any time more than one player is in motion, everyone must then be stopped for a full second before the snap of the ball, or before anyone else goes in motion.

[tstearns1]

I've got 2 questions on my rules test I'm a bit shaky on. I'd like some input before submitting my answers:
1/10, B-25. All Team A players are set for one second. A22 then starts in motion laterally to the left. While he is still moving, back A33 goes in motion laterally to the right. While A33 is still in motion, A22 stops and sets up as a flanker to the left. A33 is still moving at the snap. A11 sweeps wide on a keeper and scores a touchdown.
My options are A. Illegal Shift  B. Illegal formation  C. Illegal motion  D. Illegal Snap.
I read rule 7-2-7 and 7-2-6. I'm confident that illegal formation and illegal snap are not correct answers.

The other question is:
1/10, B-40. After the ball has been made ready for play, substitute A22 runs from his team area onto the field of play. He pauses at the top of the numbers and then realizes that he is the 12th man, so he turns and hustles back to his team area. The ball has not been snapped.
My options are A. Illegal substitution B. No Foul  C. Illegal participation  D. Illegal formation
I can rule out illegal participation and illegal formation. When I read rule 3-7-6 it says "During a down, a replaced player or sub who enters the field, but does not participate, constitutes illegal sub. Since the player got off the field before the ball was snapped, I'm leaning toward no foul here.
I read rule 3-7 and rule 9-6.

Thank you in advance for your input and advice.



UPDATE: I just submitted my test. Illegal shift in the correct answer in the 1st question.
No foul is the answer to the second question.
Thank you again for all your help and input!