Redding/Shaw Quiz 6 answer thread

[Morningrise]

My answers:

1. B's 1/10 @ B-32, snap, PC 25. Invalid FC signal. No foul for blocking an invalid FC signaler. B27's forced touching of the kick is disregarded. IT by A78.

2. A's 1/10 @ A-40, RFP, PC 25. Last team in possession (Team A) did not get the ball with clean hands. Offsetting fouls. Clock on RFP due to A putting the ball in play next.

3. A's FK @ A-35, no score. Live-ball illegal shift. Team B did not foul before the COP, so both fouls are declined and the try is not replayed. However, the score by a fouling team is canceled.

4. B's 1/10 @ B-2, snap, PC 25. Fourth down fumble rule.

5. 4/10 @ 50, snap, PC 40. Legal grounding as the passer was outside the tackle box, the pass crossed the NZ, he was the first player to possess the ball, and he had not voluntarily relinquished possession of it.

6. A's 1/10 @ B-35, snap, PC 25. Enforce B78's PF from the previous spot as there was a COP during the down. Clock on snap due to apparent TB.

7. 1/10 @ A-25, RFP, PC 25. Team B did not get the ball with clean hands. IFP, DOF, CLP all offset. Clock on RFP due to A putting the ball in play next.

8. B's 1/10 @ A-25, PC 25. Possession series ends due to B gaining possession.

[ElvisLives]

Can’t prove it, but I had the exact same answers.  I think we aced this one.

Robert

[sirhoagy]

You would think I would have learned to CAREFULLY read these questions.  I go too fast and fail to see that the ball was passed from beyond the LOS, etc.  And then I get the wrong answer because of missing that one detail. 

Good thing the game is visual with things moving versus black-and-white words. 

Stupid words.  Make brain think.

[DJW201]

No. 6 should be A, 1/G at B-1.  The result of the play is a touchback but the change of possession did not occur during the down.

[ElvisLives]

No. 6 should be A, 1/G at B-1.  The result of the play is a touchback but the change of possession did not occur during the down.

The quiz statement leaves the end of the down unclear, but it appears we are to assume the ball became dead behind B’s goal line after the change of possession when the B player recovered the ball (and in his possession).  Even if he was already “grounded” when he recovered the ball, technically, there is a running play, even though very momentary, after he recovered the ball and before the ball officially became dead.  So, there WAS a COP during the down.  Yes, the result of the play is a touchback, but the touchback occurred after the COP. In those cases, the only place the penalty can be enforced is at the previous spot.  Thus, A, 1/10, B-35.
If a ball loose from a Team A fumble or backward pass goes OB on 4th down, or goes OB through B’s end zone on any down, then the COP occurs after the ball becomes dead (turnover on downs, or touchback, respectively).  In those cases, the penalty can be enforced at the end of the last run, because the COP did not occur during the down.

Robert

[ElvisLives]

1. B, 1/10, B-3, Snap (25).  When there is a COP in the end zone and the run ends in the end zone and the result of the down is a touchback, the Basis Spot is the succeeding spot.  Foul behind the Basic Spot is penalized from the spot of the foul (B-6).

2. Safety - 2 points for B.  A, F/K, A-20, F/K rules (25).  Batting the ball backwards in the field of play is legal.  The impetus that made the ball dead behind A's goal line is from A21's batting; thus, safety.

3. No score.  B, 1/10, B-9, snap (25).  B can invoke the illegal touching privilege to get the ball at the spot of illegal touching, UNLESS team A accepts the penalty for B92's holding foul.  The Basic Spot for B92's foul is the spot of B23's fumble (B-21), and the spot of the foul (B-18) is behind the Basic Spot, so the penalty is from the spot of the foul, B's ball.

4. A, 4/2, A-30, RFP (40 and running).  Kick did not cross the NZ, so normal scrimmage rules apply (except BBW, but that's another story).  The forward fumble OB is returned to the spot of the fumble (B-30).  Team A has not yet reached the line to gain, so it will next be 4th down.  The legal kick down trumps everything regarding the clocks, so game clock starts on the snap, and the play clock is set to 25, and started on the R's signal.

5. B, 1/10, B-25, snap (40 and running).  B21 being out of bounds when he gives a signal has no bearing on legality.  A signal (valid or invalid) will cause the ball to become dead when possessed, and, if a catch by the B signaler is behind the B-25, B takes possession at the B-25.  The play clock is set to 40 and starts upon the dead-ball from the kickoff, and the game clock starts on the snap.

6. A, F/K, A-45, F/K rules (25), OR B, 1/10, B-30, snap (25).  Fouls by Team B during a F/K can only be enforced at the previous spot, and the down repeated.  If Team A declines the penalty, B will take possession at the B-30, 1/10.  Most likely, A will want to re-kick, but, you never know.

7. A, 2/G, B-2, RFP (25), game clock at 0:30 after 10-second subtraction.  (Although it would be very odd for Team A to have 1/G at the B-12, it is possible.)  Had the runner been ruled down on the field, the game clock would have continued to run, so 10 seconds are subtracted from the game clock after the review, and the game clock will start on the Referee's signal.

8. A, 2/1, B-31, RFP (40 and running).  Forward fumble OB, is returned the spot of the fumble.  40-second play clock should already be counting down, and the game clock starts on the Referee's signal (even inside 2-minutes in the 2nd or 4th periods).

Pick me apart.
Robert
 

[Close to Retiring]

Robert, on q. 2, why can't the enforcement be from the spot of the foul, half the distance, and the LOD gives B the ball 1st and 10 at the 3?

[ElvisLives]

Robert, on q. 2, why can't the enforcement be from the spot of the foul, half the distance, and the LOD gives B the ball 1st and 10 at the 3?

Successful "pick".  You got me.  Depending on the game situation, B would quite likely take the penalty, rather than the safety, for the relatively easy opportunity to score at least a field goal, if not a touchdown.
But you never know.  You have to ask B what they want to do.

Good pick.  Again, that's why we are a crew.
Robert

[AC-Ump]

What was the foul in question 2?

[Bigfrizz81]

Batting at the A-6 was legal, no foul. Result of the play is a safety.

[ElvisLives]

Gee whiz.  Had it right, and for the right reasons, and let myself get talked right out if it.  I honestly don't think that would happen on the field.  But, we gotta be careful.

Robert

[ElvisLives]

Quiz 8, my answers (limited rationale):

1. Safety - 2 points for A.  B, F/K, B-20, F/K timing rules (25).
2. B, 1/10, B-10, Snap (25). (PSK)
3. A, 1/10, NB-40, RFP (25).
4. A, 4/3, B-47, clock continues to run, play clock 40 and running after dead-ball.
5. A, 1/G, B-3, Snap (25).
6. B, 1/10, B-5, Snap (25). (PSK)
7. A, 3/5, A-45, Snap (25).  A82 ineligible by stepping OB.  DPI not possible on ineligible player, so ITP only, instead of DPI; LOD at previous spot.
8. B, 1/10, B-35, Snap (25).  This one is a bit of a guess for me, since I really don't know Replay rules.  Two fouls by Team A - KOB created by IR, and HCT, which has to be completed, since it is a personal foul.  HCT would be enforced at dead-ball spot created by IR (B-10) (?), resulting in B, 1/10, B-25.  So, B declines HCT, and accepts KOB to get ball at the B-35.  (Depending on time/score, B might accept 5-yard penalty at previous spot and repeat the F/K).
For all I really know, Team B might be able to (or, can only?) enforce the HCT at the previous spot.

[TxBJ]

On #1 I believe you missed the fact this is on the try. The foul is declined by rule since it occurred after a change of team possession on the try. If it were a safety it would be 1 point. Either way, A will kickoff, not B.

On 3 I have ball at the 50 after adding 15 to the spot of the end of the related run. It only goes to the end of the last run for a pass play if I’m not mistaken.

Not to be nit picky but it is better to start a new topic than to post on another about a previous quiz.

[ElvisLives]

On #1 I believe you missed the fact this is on the try. The foul is declined by rule since it occurred after a change of team possession on the try. If it were a safety it would be 1 point. Either way, A will kickoff, not B.
Of course.  Yep, blew right by the “try.”  Would not likely happen on the field.

On 3 I have ball at the 50 after adding 15 to the spot of the end of the related run. It only goes to the end of the last run for a pass play if I’m not mistaken.
Of course.  Was erroneously thinking of a passing down.  Would not likely happen on the field.

Not to be nit picky but it is better to start a new topic than to post on another about a previous quiz.
Just tryin’ to keep things consolidated.  If I start, I’ll keep it here.  But if somebody else starts... 

[mwa]

for question 8 of this week's quiz.

if replay ruled the kick was out-of-bounds wouldn't Team B (2-27-15) have the option to have the ball placed at the B-35 and tack-on the HCT from that spot?

Team B 1/10 from the 50 on the snap

[ElvisLives]

for question 8 of this week's quiz.

if replay ruled the kick was out-of-bounds wouldn't Team B (2-27-15) have the option to have the ball placed at the B-35 and tack-on the HCT from that spot?

Team B 1/10 from the 50 on the snap

I don't think so.  Accepting the ball at the B-35 is a penalty for the KOB.  So, to get that, B would have to decline the HCT.

[Legacy Zebra]

When replay creates a dead ball, all personal fouls and UNS become dead ball fouls. So the KOB goes to te 35, and then the HCT goes from the 35 to the 50.

[ElvisLives]

When replay creates a dead ball, all personal fouls and UNS become dead ball fouls. So the KOB goes to te 35, and then the HCT goes from the 35 to the 50.

I can buy that.  B, 1/10, 50.

Robert

[ElvisLives]

Two curiosities in Redding/Shaw's answers for #8:

1.  "no clock"  What? Shouldn't that be "FK Rules?"

4. "Ready"  What?  The game clock would not stop after the previous down, and the play clock should have started with the dead ball from the previous down.  What "ready"?

Robert

[Birddog]

When replay creates a dead ball, all personal fouls and UNS become dead ball fouls. So the KOB goes to te 35, and then the HCT goes from the 35 to the 50.

We had a similar situation, Texas HS game.  Free kick returned out to about the B-35 with a IBB in advance of the dead ball spot.  After the runner was down one of the off-side, officials says he saw the return man give an invalid signal.   We put the ball at the 25 using the FC after Free Kick rule and wiped out the IBB since it was not a personal foul.  We used this exact philosophy Legacy spoke of on our play.  Everyone seem happy, but that don't make it right?

[ElvisLives]

1.  B, 1/10,  B-30, Snap (25).  All fouls by signaler that doesn’t touch ball become 15 yard penalties.  Qualifies for PSK.

2.  B, 1/10, B-32, Snap, (25).  Forced touching.  No fouls on the down.

3.  B, 1/10, B-40, no clock, 25.  Live ball foul, so no score, and 15 yard penalty is enforced at the succeeding spot.

4.  A, 3/1, A-38, RFP, 40 (running).  No recovery, forward fumble OB. 

5.  A, 1/G, B-2, snap, 25.  FFM can be added to end of last run, if no COP DURING the down.

6.  B, 1/10, B-5, Snap, 25.  No fouls.  Catch not completed.  Turnover on downs.

7.  Safety by penalty.   B, F/K, B-20, Free kick rules, 25.  Basic Spot is end of kick, which is B-4.  Spot of foul is in end zone - safety.

8.  B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 25.  B entitled take take ball at B-25, even if signal is invalid.

[Morningrise]

1.  B, 1/10,  B-30, Snap (25).  All fouls by signaler that doesn’t touch ball become 15 yard penalties.  Qualifies for PSK.

2.  B, 1/10, B-32, Snap, (25).  Forced touching.  No fouls on the down.

3.  B, 1/10, B-40, no clock, 25.  Live ball foul, so no score, and 15 yard penalty is enforced at the succeeding spot.

4.  A, 3/1, A-38, RFP, 40 (running).  No recovery, forward fumble OB. 

5.  A, 1/G, B-2, snap, 25.  FFM can be added to end of last run, if no COO DURING the down.

6.  B, 1/10, B-5, Snap, 25.  No fouls.  Catch not completed.  Turnover on downs.

7.  Safety by penalty.   B, F/K, B-20, Free kick rules, 25.  Basic Spot is end of kick, which is B-4.  Spot of foul is in end zone - safety.

8.  B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 25.  B entitled take take ball at B-25, even if signal is invalid.

Agree 8/8. In #4 we're probably making an an announcement and/or chatting with at least one coach, and eventually pumping to 25

[TxBJ]

#3 ball should be at the A-40.

[ElvisLives]

#3 ball should be at the A-40.

Yeah, that always depends on how you look at things during an extra period, and, officially, you are correct.  Until the ball is ready for the next down, B is still B, and A is still A.  So, until the ball is declared ready, the teams keep those designations, even if they change ends of the field, like in an extra period.  So, after the penalty against B, the ball will be at the A-40.  As soon as the ball is declared ready, the A-40 becomes the B-40.  That's where I got my answer.  Same yard line, just different team designation.

Robert