just a question.....

[Navcom]

A4/6 @B-48 Punt returner B2 muffs the punt at the B-5, the punt bounces over the GL
and A90 bats the ball back into the field of play. The ball is recovered by A-31 at the B-2
and A31 runs into the EZ. Ruling?

[ElvisLives]

No AR for this one.  The kicked ball has been touched by Team B, so "illegal touching" by A is no longer possible.  Since the ball was touched by B, Rule 6-3-11 (special case of illegal touching for batting by A in B's end zone) can not apply.  Batting this loose ball in any direction, by either team, is a foul. So, A90's batting is a Basic Spot enforcement foul, and the foul occurred during the kick play of the down.  The Basic Spot for fouls during a scrimmage kick is the previous spot.  So, the penalty for this foul is 10 yards from the previous spot, and repeat 4th down.  No loss of down because this was a foul committed after the ball was beyond the NZ.  And, the penalty cannot be enforced at the end of the down, because Team B was not in possession of the ball at the end of the down.

A, 4/16, A-42, snap (25).

And, by the way, the ball is dead when recovered by A-31, since the ball is still loose from the scrimmage kick. Technically, the pure result of the down is A's ball at the B-2.  Then we complete the penalty.

[Kalle]

And if we are really technical, the next down will be from A-37 after the five-yard dead-ball delay of game penalty tacked on

[centexsports]

With most 5 man crews, you will have a BJ scratching his head wondering what he will tell his R.   

Probably go something like:

BJ:  I started to  then i thought maybe I should  but the LJ came in and did  .
R:  So what happened (as the R does  )?
BJ: I don't know!
U: (Now is the time for a good U)  I had two flags, one on each team.
R: OK, we are replaying 4th down.
U: Don't you want to know what the flags are for?
R: Nope, I will take care of it.
U: How
R: (Announcement) Defense off side.  Kicking team chop block.    replay fourth down.

That's why R's make the big money and have a good U.

[ElvisLives]

Sadly, what Centex says is too often true. We just don't get to practice these plays, and they happen so quickly, they are very difficult to get right on the field.

Mechanically, when the B saw the ball touched by B2, he should simply use signal 11 (legal touching), so the whole world (at least the video) knows you saw the touching.  Then, from straddling the goal line, the B would see A90 bat the ball.  Since he made the S11 signal, he should now know that any batting in the end zone is a foul, and he gets a flag down, and continues to officiate.  He knows the ball has not come into possession, so it is still a "kick."  When he see A31 recover the ball, he astutely sounds his whistle, and signals time out.  Normally, the B should still let the wings take progress.  But, in this unusual case, it would help to "sell" the call for the B to step over the B-2 and mark progress, until the H and/or L can relieve him, to go have that man-to-man talk with the R.

Now, you can be sure that Team A's coach is at least trying to get out to the numbers or so to make his case that this should be a TD for his team - after all, it was touched by Team B!!!  That's when the U and the wing to that side intercept him and give him the one warning to get off the field.  We'll let you know what's going on.  Just give us a chance to find out.

When do we get to have this kind of fun again?

[ElvisLives]

And if we are really technical, the next down will be from A-37 after the five-yard dead-ball delay of game penalty tacked on

It could happen....😳

[Kalle]

It could happen....😳

I could support that flag if the recovery happens at about B-20 and the team A player obviously ignores everything, but not from B-2...

[ElvisLives]

I could support that flag if the recovery happens at about B-20 and the team A player obviously ignores everything, but not from B-2...

I was just being facetious.  I don't know of an official on the planet that would hang a delay foul on a guy for two yards.  In truth, I think most everyone would agree that there are few, if any, players that would positively know that the ball becomes dead when recovered by Team A.  Heck, not even all officials would know that.  And, as you know, coaches teach their players  to pick up the ball and run with it until they hear a whistle.  So, no, a delay foul would not be warranted in this instance.

And get video.

Its a good question by Navcom, though.  Very much possible, although, if an A player saw the ball muffed by B, more likely he would try to secure the ball, not just bat it. But, you just never know what these kids are gonna do.