Pre-game Warning to Team after seeing video of team doing something illegal

[ElvisLives]

From a post in another forum, somebody mentioned that they would bring to the attention of a Team's head coach that he/his crew have noticed something while watching video of a/some of that team's previous game(s) that is/may be illegal. Wow. Don't EVER do that. That is a recipe for disaster. That coach/team will now believe that you are out to get them, and nothing you say will convince them otherwise. You will have h-e-double L the entire night, and possibly have a formal complaint lodged against you. And, if your state allows teams to 'scratch' officials, you can bet you will be scratched by that coach, wherever he may be coaching.
OK, so you see something in video that is a foul, should have been called by previous crews but hasn't been, and you want to use preventive officiating to stop this before it becomes a problem during the game. As it should be. The thing to do is observe the team - as you should always do during pre-game - and, when/if they show that potentially illegal action, THEN have the conversation with the coach about that action, and that it is illegal, and give him the reason(s) why. Don't threaten, i.e., "If you don't stop doing that, we'll have to flag you." Rather, just tell him, "Coach, we just noticed that tailback #11 tends to lean forward before the ball is snapped. As a back, he may be moving backward or laterally, at the snap, but, he can't be moving forward, and, if you also have a motion man, that will be an illegal shift, regardless of which direction he is moving." Hopefully, he will get that corrected. If not, then make the call during the game. To paraphrase the two Bobs from Office Space, that should "...fix the glitch."

Some things are harder to prevent. Maybe you notice in video that their slot backs are actually on the line, or they 'pick' a lot, or have ineligibles downfield a lot, or illegally 'stem' a lot. Those things may not show up during pre-game. For those kinds of things, try to issue warnings the first time they happen during the game (to the player and the head coach), and then make the call if they don't adjust accordingly thereafter.

[JasonTX]

Very good advice.  We had a crew do exactly that and it backfired for them and our chapter.  That school is very difficult to get film from now as they don't want us "scouting" his team.

[AlUpstateNY]

Very good advice.  .

Unless you enjoy dodging hornets, avoid kicking their nest.  If you are really concerned, make sure you ask GENERIC questions, "are there any issues, areas you have questions about or concerns you want to alert us to before we start", and ask EXACTLY the same question to BOTH Teams.

[HLinNC]

I don't even like the "any special plays or formations" or "anything you've see of your opponent that you are concerned about" questions some white hats are prone to ask.  My philosophy has always been that I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the rules and my abilities that I shouldn't need a tip.  If I see something on film, yeah sure notify the crew but to openly bring it up to the coach before the game, no thanks.  Most of them are on edge anyway.  Its like shaking up your soda can.

[dammitbobby]

While I don't disagree, asking about what they've seen on film (excepting the standard response of 'They hold every play' ) can be beneficial for newer officials, and can be taken as an opportunity to pregame what comes up, rules wise... such as the complexities of blocking below the waist, crackbacks, unusual kick plays, etc. to serve as a refresher.  We all want to be at the point where we have that confidence, but I know I for sure am not, and whether they'd admit it or not, a lot (many? a large portion?  most?) would fall in the same boat.

Particularly if you don't have film to review to get those observations yourself.

[AlUpstateNY]

I don't even like the "any special plays or formations" or "anything you've see of your opponent that you are concerned about" questions some white hats are prone to ask.  My philosophy has always been that I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the rules and my abilities that I shouldn't need a tip.  If I see something on film, yeah sure notify the crew but to openly bring it up to the coach before the game, no thanks.  Most of them are on edge anyway.  Its like shaking up your soda can.

It's like, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".  Who knows what evil may lurk in the imagination of a HS Football Coach, regarding rules.  Hopefully, if he has invented some new and innovative idea about a specific rule compliance, he'll share it during that (private) pre-game conference, at which time you can "advise" about it's applicability, rather than wait until discussing it when there's a flag on the ground.

[bama_stripes]

I don't even like the "any special plays or formations" or "anything you've see of your opponent that you are concerned about" questions some white hats are prone to ask.

Well, I’m one of “those” white hats.

It’s not so much that we need the information as it is an opportunity to let the coach know that we’re approachable.  And every now and then, we might be able to prevent something that would cause problems during a crucial point in the game.

[Ralph Damren]

I always ask about special plays but refrain from asking about what he thinks about the other guys. If the coach brings up "they do this...they do that...." , I'll respond by : "We'll be watching, coach.." and try not to go into details. I got detailed one time and it may have given his team an advantage:

(1) Coach: "On film, we noticed that several times their slot-back lines up on LOS."
(2) Me : "Our wing will tap the top of his cap if the slot-back is covered. That will alert us that he would be an IR if he goes downfield on a pass play."
(3) Several times in the first half the slot-back was covered. Each time the D-back -seeing the hat tap- would move up a couple of steps, as he knew it wasn't a pass play. .
(4) At halftime ,we decided that a 'chest-scratch' would be our signal for the second half.

 

[ncwingman]

I don't even like the "any special plays or formations" or "anything you've see of your opponent that you are concerned about" questions some white hats are prone to ask.  My philosophy has always been that I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the rules and my abilities that I shouldn't need a tip.  If I see something on film, yeah sure notify the crew but to openly bring it up to the coach before the game, no thanks.  Most of them are on edge anyway.  Its like shaking up your soda can.

I would never ask Coach A about Team B. That seems like a recipe for disaster - and if Coach A has something to say about Team B, they'll likely bring it up on their own.

However, I have been on crews that had a couple of incidents of inadvertent whistles on trick plays that could have been avoided if we knew the trick play was in their arsenal. If you're very good at fooling the defense, you don't also want to fool the officials as well.

[Etref]

Well, I’m one of “those” white hats.

It’s not so much that we need the information as it is an opportunity to let the coach know that we’re approachable.  And every now and then, we might be able to prevent something that would cause problems during a crucial point in the game.

 

[Ralph Damren]

I would never ask Coach A about Team B. That seems like a recipe for disaster - and if Coach A has something to say about Team B, they'll likely bring it up on their own.

However, I have been on crews that had a couple of incidents of inadvertent whistles on trick plays that could have been avoided if we knew the trick play was in their arsenal. If you're very good at fooling the defense, you don't also want to fool the officials as well.

Well said, I'm a strong proponent of asking about unusual plays, as:
(1) You want to be ready for them and plan accordingly;
(2) If there is a question of legality, I'd rather explain it in pregame and quell it than to flag it later.

[SCline]

I just use: “any trick plays or strange formations we should know about?” Followed by, “Do you have anything else for us?” If he wants to chat about anything that’s his invitation.

[refjeff]

If it was up to me all we would ever ask is:

"Coach do you have any questions for us?"

"Do you have anything you want us to be aware of?"

But we are supposed to ask about trick plays so we do, and it is worse than worthless, because the coach invariably says no and we still might see anything. 

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, if you don't ask about "unusual plays or formations" , you run the risk of being tricked  along with the opponents. If you are tricked, too, your chances of not giving proper coverage in greatly increased.

IF you asked and told he didn't have any trick plays AND you blow your coverage on it, you have a valid response of : "Coach, IF you had told us when asked, We WOULD have been ready when you ran it."

[bama_stripes]

If it was up to me all we would ever ask is:

"Coach do you have any questions for us?"

"Do you have anything you want us to be aware of?"

But we are supposed to ask about trick plays so we do, and it is worse than worthless, because the coach invariably says no and we still might see anything.

Apparently, a double-reverse flea-flicker didn’t qualify as “unusual” last Friday.

[AlUpstateNY]

IF you asked and told he didn't have any trick plays AND you blow your coverage on it, you have a valid response of : "Coach, IF you had told us when asked, We WOULD have been ready when you ran it."

"An ounce of prevention is worth (more than) a POUND of cure.

[refjeff]

 

Apparently, a double-reverse flea-flicker didn’t qualify as “unusual” last Friday.

After being told "No" last year we saw a backward pass to an offensive tackle and this year we had a backward pass on a KO return. 

And yes, I too have had the double-reverse-flea-flicker after being told no, but that was junior high game, and at that level it is common to see plays that even the coach has never seen before.