scrimmage kick

[cjimejr]

Good morning
During a scrimmage kick, K jumped at R 3-yard line came down with the ball at the 3 then his momentum took him in the end zone. Do we have a touch back or the ball at the 3 yard line?

[bossman72]

Well, did he go down in the end zone?  I'm assuming yes.

Momentum at the 3.

[Legacy Zebra]

It will be B’s ball at the 3. Remember, momentum is an exception to the safety scoring rules, not touchback. If a player gains possession in the field of play, it can never be a touchback. It will either be a safety or a momentum exception play. For this to be a touchback, the player would have had to gain possession in the end zone.

[ElvisLives]

Although the catch (or recovery, we really don't know which) was completed between the B-3 and the goal line - or even in the end zone - if the Team A player firmly held the ball at the B-3, then, officially, the ball became dead at the B-3. B, 1/10, B-3.

[cjimejr]

To clarify my question, K came down at R 3-yard in possession of the ball then his momentum took him into R end zone. I placed the ball at the 3-yard R ball first and 10 at the 3. I was later told the kick did not end until K stop in the end zone which should resulted in a touchback on the play.

[JDM]

To clarify my question, K came down at R 3-yard in possession of the ball then his momentum took him into R end zone. I placed the ball at the 3-yard R ball first and 10 at the 3. I was later told the kick did not end until K stop in the end zone which should resulted in a touchback on the play.

Suggest using NCAA team designations (Team A/Team B) - i.e. A-34/B-34.

[ElvisLives]

To clarify my question, K came down at R 3-yard in possession of the ball then his momentum took him into R end zone. I placed the ball at the 3-yard R ball first and 10 at the 3. I was later told the kick did not end until K stop in the end zone which should resulted in a touchback on the play.

That is simply incorrect. As I said, if the Team A player firmly held the legally kicked ball (beyond the NZ, if a scrimmage kick) at the B-3, and returned to the ground with the ball still firmly held, then the ball is dead immediately at that moment, not after he stops moving. That is a good 'defensive' play.
B, 1/10, B-3.

Now, if he firmly holds the kicked ball between the B-1 and goal, and his natural momentum carries him into the end zone, by philosophy - not rule - we'll rule that possession was gained in B's end zone - touchback. But not outside the B-1.

[dammitbobby]

To clarify my question, K came down at R 3-yard in possession of the ball then his momentum took him into R end zone. I placed the ball at the 3-yard R ball first and 10 at the 3. I was later told the kick did not end until K stop in the end zone which should resulted in a touchback on the play.

Another thought, to show that whoever told you this is incorrect:  What's the definition of a safety (8-1-5-1)?  If the ball is in B's endzone, and B is responsible for putting it there (which, according to your scenario, it is), it would be a safety... and that's why we have the momentum rule/exception, so that doesn't occur.  It's an exception to the safety rule, to allow B to recover/catch a ball in the field of play, and not be gifted 15-18 yards by calling it a touchback (given the philosophy that Elvis mentioned inside the 1 yard line), which by definition must be fielded in the end zone, or go OOB beyond the end zone. 

[Stinterp]

There is no momentum exception for player K (A) recovering or catching his own teams's kick.  The ball is dead at the 3, B 1/10.

[dammitbobby]

You're right - I mistakenly had B catching the kick, not A.

[JasonTX]

Where was the line of scrimmage on this play?  As already noted, using K and R verbiage will confuse the hell out of us.  A and B for NCAA.

[bossman72]

To clarify my question, K came down at R 3-yard in possession of the ball then his momentum took him into R end zone. I placed the ball at the 3-yard R ball first and 10 at the 3. I was later told the kick did not end until K stop in the end zone which should resulted in a touchback on the play.

Whoever told you that needs to read 2-16-1c

[ref6983]

Now, if he firmly holds the kicked ball between the B-1 and goal, and his natural momentum carries him into the end zone, by philosophy - not rule - we'll rule that possession was gained in B's end zone - touchback. But not outside the B-1.

And then replay reverses to B 1/10 B1. Put the ball where it belongs with or without replay.

[Ralph Damren]

While I'm "wandering in the wrong yard" (ole 'Mainer saying) , I offer the following :

K/A catches kick @ R/B's  3 = ball's dead B's ball there.

A muffs kick @ B's 3 and juggles ball into B's end zone = B's choice of first touching @ 3 or TB.

B catches kick @ B's and mo' takes him into end zone = B's call at B's 3

B muffs kick @ B's 3, kick continues into B's end zone and B recovers = TB, as kick hadn't ended

B muffs kick @ B's 3, kick continues into B's end zone where K RECOVERS.....er....I'll let you guys answer that 

"Ayuh, if hay is ta' fall off the wagon, spect' it'll be on kicking plays "  (another ole' Mainer saying)

[ElvisLives]

While I'm "wandering in the wrong yard" (ole 'Mainer saying) , I offer the following :

K/A catches kick @ R/B's  3 = ball's dead B's ball there.

A muffs kick @ B's 3 and juggles ball into B's end zone = B's choice of first touching @ 3 or TB.

B catches kick @ B's and mo' takes him into end zone = B's call at B's 3

B muffs kick @ B's 3, kick continues into B's end zone and B recovers = TB, as kick hadn't ended

B muffs kick @ B's 3, kick continues into B's end zone where K RECOVERS.....er....I'll let you guys answer that  ??
Touchdown for A.

"Ayuh, if hay is ta' fall off the wagon, spect' it'll be on kicking plays "  (another ole' Mainer saying)

[ElvisLives]

And then replay reverses to B 1/10 B1. Put the ball where it belongs with or without replay.

The point of the philosophy is that if there is question as to whether the ball was firmly held in the field of play or above/beyond the goal line, then we rule that it was above/beyond the goal line. If you have positive knowledge that the ball was firmly held by an A player at the 3/4 yard line, and then the A player returned to the ground still firmly holding the ball - fine - go with the spot where it was firmly held. But, if you can't positively tell, rule the ball in the end zone - touchback.

[ref6983]

The point of the philosophy is that if there is question as to whether the ball was firmly held in the field of play or above/beyond the goal line, then we rule that it was above/beyond the goal line. If you have positive knowledge that the ball was firmly held by an A player at the 3/4 yard line, and then the A player returned to the ground still firmly holding the ball - fine - go with the spot where it was firmly held. But, if you can't positively tell, rule the ball in the end zone - touchback.

This is correct and if it's so close one can't tell then of course it's a TB. But it's entirely different than:

 "Now, if he firmly holds the kicked ball between the B-1 and goal, and his natural momentum carries him into the end zone, by philosophy - not rule - we'll rule that possession was gained in B's end zone - touchback. But not outside the B-1."

[ElvisLives]

This is correct and if it's so close one can't tell then of course it's a TB. But it's entirely different than:

 "Now, if he firmly holds the kicked ball between the B-1 and goal, and his natural momentum carries him into the end zone, by philosophy - not rule - we'll rule that possession was gained in B's end zone - touchback. But not outside the B-1."

Yeah, I like my potatoes mashed or fried. Sounds like you like them roasted or au gratin. Potatoes (or po-tah-toes), nonetheless.

[ref6983]

Yeah, I like my potatoes mashed or fried. Sounds like you like them roasted or au gratin. Potatoes (or po-tah-toes), nonetheless.

You seem to be pleading "semantics". It's nothing of the kind. Your initial comment was fundamentally incorrect. No semantics, no nuance, just wrong.

[ElvisLives]

You seem to be pleading "semantics". It's nothing of the kind. Your initial comment was fundamentally incorrect. No semantics, no nuance, just wrong.

Forgive me, your honor. I didn't realize I was on trial. With that, I will invoke my 5th Amendment right, and terminate my participation in this interrogation.