NCAA QUESTION FROM A NFHS GUY

[CalhounLJ]

Forgive me for intruding, but I was watching a college game this afternoon. B blocked the try and returned it to the 20 Flag on B for illegal blindside block, so of course A declined the penalty. The question I have is what if there was a flag on A during the return by B? Say a facemask... Would you mark off the penalty and give B a snap? Or enforce that on the ensuing kick? Just wondered..

[ElvisLives]

Calhoun,
I believe your question, for NCAA, is regarding a foul ONLY by team A, following a change of team possession during a try. The penalty is declined by rule, unless it is a flagrant foul (requiring ejection), and the try ends. If the foul is flagrant, the penalty is enforced on the succeeding kickoff/at the succeeding spot in an extra period.
If BOTH teams foul AFTER the change of possession, those fouls cancel, any score is canceled, and the try ends. If one of the fouls was flagrant, it would be enforced on the succeeding kickoff/at the succeeding spot in an extra period, and the player would be ejected.

[CalhounLJ]

Thanks a bunch.


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[Ralph Damren]

I recalled this being on the docket several years ago for the NFHS. It appeared to have strong support for the final vote until some ole' duffer from a state with only one syllable mumbled these two questions....

(1) What would happen if kicker, after this kick was blocked, tore off his helmet and tossed it at an opponent with ball and heading toward 2-point country and tripping him up ??

(2) Blocked kick scooped up by opponent and heading to 2-point country WHEN ole' Smitty, the ref, forgets about rule change and tweets his tweeter as he always did on a blocked PAT ?
                ... RULE FAILED BY ONE VOTE .

[ElvisLives]

I recalled this being on the docket several years ago for the NFHS. It appeared to have strong support for the final vote until some ole' duffer from a state with only one syllable mumbled these two questions....

(1) What would happen if kicker, after this kick was blocked, tore off his helmet and tossed it at an opponent with ball and heading toward 2-point country and tripping him up ??

(2) Blocked kick scooped up by opponent and heading to 2-point country WHEN ole' Smitty, the ref, forgets about rule change and tweets his tweeter as he always did on a blocked PAT ?
                ... RULE FAILED BY ONE VOTE .

But, doesn't your vote count double? I think I heard that, once. 

[Ralph Damren]

But, doesn't your vote count double? I think I heard that, once. 

SHH...don't tell anyone from Texas, but I voted against it 

[ElvisLives]

SHH...don't tell anyone from Texas, but I voted against it 

Ah. As Paul Harvey would have said, "And now you know the rest of the story." You do what you think is best for everybody involved. (Doesn't affect Texas, so, we aren't judging.)

[Ralph Damren]

Ah. As Paul Harvey would have said, "And now you know the rest of the story." You do what you think is best for everybody involved. (Doesn't affect Texas, so, we aren't judging.)

Being an ole' white hat, I may have been a tad selfish. Oregon showed a video of a state championship game. It was 27-0 when a PAT kick was blocked. A defender scooped up the blocked kick and his journey began for two-point country. His teammates and fans went wild, as the score now read 27-2. Many at the meeting were moved for the trailing team. I, too, was moved, but for the poor ole' white hat, for his 90 yard journey of chasing the kid and knowing that he would then need to be returning over the same path for the ensuing kickoff. ...

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY,,,,

[JasonTX]

Being an ole' white hat, I may have been a tad selfish. Oregon showed a video of a state championship game. It was 27-0 when a PAT kick was blocked. A defender scooped up the blocked kick and his journey began for two-point country. His teammates and fans went wild, as the score now read 27-2. Many at the meeting were moved for the trailing team. I, too, was moved, but for the poor ole' white hat, for his 90 yard journey of chasing the kid and knowing that he would then need to be returning over the same path for the ensuing kickoff. ...

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY,,,,

Well, this happened this past week to one of our old timers and he did the best he could to make it to the 50.  It was very clearly a 2pt TD so once the dust settled, he stops and signals TD from there.  There are solutions to every problem, so now you can put this back on the docket and vote yes.   

[ElvisLives]

Being an ole' white hat, I may have been a tad selfish. Oregon showed a video of a state championship game. It was 27-0 when a PAT kick was blocked. A defender scooped up the blocked kick and his journey began for two-point country. His teammates and fans went wild, as the score now read 27-2. Many at the meeting were moved for the trailing team. I, too, was moved, but for the poor ole' white hat, for his 90 yard journey of chasing the kid and knowing that he would then need to be returning over the same path for the ensuing kickoff. ...

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY,,,,

Well, just throwing this out there. On EVERY other down during a game, Team B has the opportunity to score a touchdown. Why should this down be different (even if the point value is only 2 for 11-player, 1 for 6-player football).  1 or 2 points can make the difference in the game, even if cumulatively. Our 6-player game two weeks ago ended 62-60. The losing team missed 11 points worth of Tries (5, 2-point field goal attempts, and one unsuccessful 1-point touchdown Try. If they make their Tries, they win by 9. But, FYI, Team B can’t score a TD on a try in 6-player football, one Texas. I think that is wrong, too. But, what do I know?

[bossman72]

The thing is, you think that it's just as easy as saying "let the defense return it for 2".

But once you get into the details of penalty enforcement before/after the change of possession, then it gets messy.  It's hard to simplify it and you have to "hard code" the enforcement in the rule like NCAA does, which is completely different than any other down.  It will be a significant rule to learn for something that doesn't happen very much.  I'm good with the NFHS not allowing returns on a try and in OT.

[ilyazhito]

Well, just throwing this out there. On EVERY other down during a game, Team B has the opportunity to score a touchdown. Why should this down be different (even if the point value is only 2 for 11-player, 1 for 6-player football).  1 or 2 points can make the difference in the game, even if cumulatively. Our 6-player game two weeks ago ended 62-60. The losing team missed 11 points worth of Tries (5, 2-point field goal attempts, and one unsuccessful 1-point touchdown Try. If they make their Tries, they win by 9. But, FYI, Team B can’t score a TD on a try in 6-player football, one Texas. I think that is wrong, too. But, what do I know?

I agree. This is why the defense should also be allowed to score in OT.
Before change of possession, follow the usual 3 and 1 principles. Loss of down penalties deny A the right to repeat the down, so a try with one of those is automatically unsuccessful, unless penalties offset.

After the change of possession, penalties by B nullify the score. Penalties by A are declined by rule unless they are flagrant or unsportsmanlike. No yardage penalties exist, as the succeeding spot will be the kickoff (or following series, if in overtime). If penalties offset after a change of possession, no one scores, the try ends, and proceed to the succeeding spot.

If there is an inadvertent whistle on the try, replay the down.

If the kicker throws his helmet to trip an opponent, this is a palpably unfair act and a score would be awarded.

[Ralph Damren]

I've always looked at the extra point as a bonus you can add to your score after scoring a touchdown. Sorta' like a penalty shot in ice hockey, the defense couldn't score. In 2013, 8-3-3 was tweaked with that arguement as prior to that B could  score on a try (abid probably only a Stephen King novel) IF the QB scrambled...and...scrambled...and was finally sacked in his own end zone = 1 point safety.

 

[jra104]

Well, just throwing this out there. On EVERY other down during a game, Team B has the opportunity to score a touchdown. Why should this down be different (even if the point value is only 2 for 11-player, 1 for 6-player football).  1 or 2 points can make the difference in the game, even if cumulatively. Our 6-player game two weeks ago ended 62-60. The losing team missed 11 points worth of Tries (5, 2-point field goal attempts, and one unsuccessful 1-point touchdown Try. If they make their Tries, they win by 9. But, FYI, Team B can’t score a TD on a try in 6-player football, one Texas. I think that is wrong, too. But, what do I know?

See my post about PAT broken play