Author Topic: Starting the Clock  (Read 5640 times)

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Offline JasonTX

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Starting the Clock
« on: June 28, 2023, 02:02:32 PM »
I know the answer but a good one to get your mind going.  Don't use the rule book.


2nd and 10 at the A-5.  A10 receives the snap and drops back into his own end zone.  Having never left the tackle box, and under heavy pressure by team B players, A10 throws a pass, from the end zone into the bleachers.  A flag is thrown for intentional grounding.  Oh yeah, there was :18 seconds left in the 2nd quarter when the ball was ruled dead and team A is out of timeouts.  Now what are all the options you will be presenting to team B?

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2023, 02:59:45 PM »
I know the answer but a good one to get your mind going.  Don't use the rule book.


2nd and 10 at the A-5.  A10 receives the snap and drops back into his own end zone.  Having never left the tackle box, and under heavy pressure by team B players, A10 throws a pass, from the end zone into the bleachers.  A flag is thrown for intentional grounding.  Oh yeah, there was :18 seconds left in the 2nd quarter when the ball was ruled dead and team A is out of timeouts.  Now what are all the options you will be presenting to team B?

Well, now. Intentional grounding - no question. ING from the end zone allows Team B to either elect a safety, OR, by accepting the special penalty option, have 3rd down at the previous spot (effectively, an incomplete pass). Note that declining the penalty is the same as accepting the penalty, because, in the case of declining the penalty, the dead ball would belong to team A at the spot of the pass, which would be in their own end zone, resulting in a safety.
By accepting either penalty option, Team B may also elect a 10-second subtraction from the game clock. So, if they elect the safety, they can let Team A have a free kick at the A-20, with either 0:18, or 0:08 on the game clock. Depending on score, I can see them electing either clock option. If they elect the 10SS, then the game clock will start on the referee’s signal.
Now, if they elect the artificial incomplete pass (less likely), they may also elect the 10SS, and the game clock would start on the referee’s signal. Being in just the second period, they would not be so desperate as to decline the 10SS (but they could). If this was the 4th period, and down by, say, 5, they might want to accept the penalty for the artificial incomplete pass, decline the 10SS (so the clock would start on the snap, with 0:18), and hope for a fumble by Team A or interception on the next down. If they can get the ball, they might have one, maybe two, shots at the end zone for a TD.

I’m speculating that I forgot something, but can’t think of what it might be.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2023, 03:22:36 PM »
Well, now. Intentional grounding - no question. ING from the end zone allows Team B to either elect a safety, OR, by accepting the special penalty option, have 3rd down at the previous spot (effectively, an incomplete pass). Note that declining the penalty is the same as accepting the penalty, because, in the case of declining the penalty, the dead ball would belong to team A at the spot of the pass, which would be in their own end zone, resulting in a safety.
By accepting either penalty option, Team B may also elect a 10-second subtraction from the game clock. So, if they elect the safety, they can let Team A have a free kick at the A-20, with either 0:18, or 0:08 on the game clock. Depending on score, I can see them electing either clock option. If they elect the 10SS, then the game clock will start on the referee’s signal.
Now, if they elect the artificial incomplete pass (less likely), they may also elect the 10SS, and the game clock would start on the referee’s signal. Being in just the second period, they would not be so desperate as to decline the 10SS (but they could). If this was the 4th period, and down by, say, 5, they might want to accept the penalty for the artificial incomplete pass, decline the 10SS (so the clock would start on the snap, with 0:18), and hope for a fumble by Team A or interception on the next down. If they can get the ball, they might have one, maybe two, shots at the end zone for a TD.

I’m speculating that I forgot something, but can’t think of what it might be.

Declining the penalty eliminates the option for the 10 SS.  While 7-3-7-c does state that the ball belongs to the passing team at the spot of the pass but the exception kicks in if the penalty is declined and then the ball is next put in play at the previous spot, so that would eliminate the option for a 10 SS if they declined the penalty.  Accepting the penalty will yield a safety and the option for the 10 SS.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2023, 03:39:47 PM »
Declining the penalty eliminates the option for the 10 SS.  While 7-3-7-c does state that the ball belongs to the passing team at the spot of the pass but the exception kicks in if the penalty is declined and then the ball is next put in play at the previous spot, so that would eliminate the option for a 10 SS if they declined the penalty.  Accepting the penalty will yield a safety and the option for the 10 SS.

That proves I didn't use my book. Yep, the artificial incomplete pass is the option if Team B declines the penalty. I've never actually had an illegal pass from the end zone, so those things aren't as foremost in my mind as they should be. So, no 10SS if they do the artificial incomplete pass.
Good brain teaser.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2023, 04:01:00 PM »
That proves I didn't use my book. Yep, the artificial incomplete pass is the option if Team B declines the penalty. I've never actually had an illegal pass from the end zone, so those things aren't as foremost in my mind as they should be. So, no 10SS if they do the artificial incomplete pass.
Good brain teaser.

Indeed.  The part that gets people is starting the clock on the ready for play on the free kick.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2023, 04:22:58 PM »
Indeed.  The part that gets people is starting the clock on the ready for play on the free kick.

It would be odd. I would imagine some 'amateur' officials in the stands would freak out when they saw the R winding the clock after the kicker get into his position. They haven't dug that deep into the AR's, just yet.

Online ncwingman

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2023, 09:37:24 PM »
It would be odd. I would imagine some 'amateur' officials in the stands would freak out when they saw the R winding the clock after the kicker get into his position. They haven't dug that deep into the AR's, just yet.

I'm not an NCAA official (yet?) but that certainly made me go "Wait, what?" There exists a scenario where the clock starts on the RFP on a free kick? Yet... AR 3-4-4-VIII.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2023, 08:31:34 AM »
I'm not an NCAA official (yet?) but that certainly made me go "Wait, what?" There exists a scenario where the clock starts on the RFP on a free kick? Yet... AR 3-4-4-VIII.

It's a dumb interpretation, but yes this is basically the only scenario when that can happen.

Offline lonnieritch1981

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Re: Starting the Clock
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2023, 10:19:18 AM »
Well, I agree with Jason's interpretation on this play situation.  Boy, though, I didn't know about starting the clock on the ready for a free kick.  Good information!  I just hope if I ever have that play situation I remember that odd AR3-4-4VIII!!!