Oddball play

[dammitbobby]

Had this happen in a six-man game last week, and I've yet to find someone who has seen this before.

A 4/15 at the A-15.  A22 receives the snap, pitches back to A33, who intends to punt the ball.  He aborts the punt with B55 bearing down on him, runs around from a while behind the LOS, then from the A-5 throws a forward pass to A22, who catches it at the A-10. He too runs around for a bit - staying behind the LOS - and then from next  to the sideline, punts the ball away. B66 fields the punt and returns it to the B25.

Ruling?

[ElvisLives]

Had this happen in a six-man game last week, and I've yet to find someone who has seen this before.

A 4/15 at the A-15.  A22 receives the snap, pitches back to A33, who intends to punt the ball.  He aborts the punt with B55 bearing down on him, runs around from a while behind the LOS, then from the A-5 throws a forward pass to A22, who catches it at the A-10. He too runs around for a bit - staying behind the LOS - and then from next  to the sideline, punts the ball away. B66 fields the punt and returns it to the B25.

Ruling?

B, 1/10, B-25, snap (25). No prohibition on having a scrimmage kick after a legal forward pass, so long as the ball has not been across the neutral zone.

And, no, I've never seen this happen.

[dammitbobby]

I gotta tell you, it was perplexing. I was the whitehat, and I kind of just stood there for a few seconds processing it... my brain said that was a foul, so I dropped the flag and waved the crew together to get their opinions and discuss. We were all in agreement that it wasn't allowed, so I announced it as an illegal kick, and B declined it to keep the ball. Hate that I missed it, but thankfully game was well out of hand by that point anyway. I honestly thought it was one of those really obscure rules, like a return kick, that we know are there, but we don't really give much consideration or though to, to due to their rarity.

[ElvisLives]

I gotta tell you, it was perplexing. I was the whitehat, and I kind of just stood there for a few seconds processing it... my brain said that was a foul, so I dropped the flag and waved the crew together to get their opinions and discuss. We were all in agreement that it wasn't allowed, so I announced it as an illegal kick, and B declined it to keep the ball. Hate that I missed it, but thankfully game was well out of hand by that point anyway. I honestly thought it was one of those really obscure rules, like a return kick, that we know are there, but we don't really give much consideration or though to, to due to their rarity.

Well, I'm glad you allowed Team B to decline the penalty, so it all worked out as it should have, anyway. BUT, let's talk about the penalty for an illegal kick. If it truly had been an illegal kick, the penalty is 5-yards from the PREVIOUS SPOT, plus a LOSS OF DOWN. So, if you had given them the correct option for an illegal kick, Team B would have accepted the penalty, to take over the ball at the A-10. Huge difference. Thankfully, that didn't happen.

[Joe Stack]

Elvis or others can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe as long as a team punts BEHIND the LOS and the punter, the ball, or a player with the ball has never been beyond the LOS, most any punt is legal. They can punt as many times as they want. Whether the punter has protection or not, however, would be a different question. But the ability to execute a scrimmage kick isn't based on whether a team had previously thrown a pass, fumbled, made an exchange of any kind, ran around, punts previously, etc.

[ElvisLives]

Elvis or others can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe as long as a team punts BEHIND the LOS and the punter, the ball, or a player with the ball has never been beyond the LOS, most any punt is legal. They can punt as many times as they want. Whether the punter has protection or not, however, would be a different question. But the ability to execute a scrimmage kick isn't based on whether a team had previously thrown a pass, fumbled, made an exchange of any kind, ran around, punts previously, etc.

Yes, until the ball is, or has been, beyond the neutral zone (in possession or loose), any type of scrimmage kick is permitted. Period. Such a kick might follow a legal forward pass caught behind the NZ (and the ball stays behind the NZ), or it might follow a previous legal scrimmage kick that stayed behind the NZ. The most likely scenarios are the kick following a forward pass (that started this discussion), and a blocked field goal attempt that stays behind the NZ and is recovered by an A player who then punts or drop kicks the ball. A place kick would be possible, but would be very difficult.

[Bulldog75]

The kicked ball has to touch something beyond the LOS to have been beyond the LOS, right?  So a punt into the wind that goes forward and crosses the LOS in the air, but is then blown backwards and first touches the ground (or anything) behind the LOS has not crossed, correct?

[ElvisLives]

The kicked ball has to touch something beyond the LOS to have been beyond the LOS, right?  So a punt into the wind that goes forward and crosses the LOS in the air, but is then blown backwards and first touches the ground (or anything) behind the LOS has not crossed, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

But, I really wish y'all would use the correct terminology. Neutral Zone. Not 'line of scrimmage' (or 'LOS'). There are TWO lines of scrimmage on every scrimmage down. One for Team A, and one for Team B. The space between is the Neutral Zone, and that is what is referenced in the rules. Not 'LOS.'
So, a legal scrimmage kick has crossed the neutral zone when it touches the ground, a player, an official, or anything else that is beyond the neutral zone.