Author Topic: "Hideout" play discussion  (Read 1166 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3891
  • FAN REACTION: +177/-149
  • The rules are there if you need them.
"Hideout" play discussion
« on: November 18, 2024, 08:26:07 AM »
On another forum with a different set of rules, there is a good discussion regarding a "hideout" play. For NCAA, these are LIVE-BALL fouls. The use of any tactic that in any way uses the substitution process - real or simulated, with or without an actual substitution - to confuse their opponent is an Unfair Act under 9-2-2-b. The short wings or deep wings need to pick this up, and toss a flag high in the air at the snap, so everybody knows there is an issue before the play ever develops. This is a "team" UNS, so nobody gets hung with one on their UNS 'counter.' But, these are never incidental or accidental. These things are coached, and ought to grounds for dismissal of the HC, even if the OC is the one that coaches this, without the HC's knowledge. The HC must be responsible for his staff, and hanging this on him would stop this stuff.
But, for now, live-ball UNS on the team.

Just wanted to make sure we know this is a live-ball foul in NCAA.

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2959
  • FAN REACTION: +112/-58
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2024, 11:37:04 AM »
The coach is probably not in the coaching box as they are usually part of the act in the restricted area.  Go ahead and tag him with a SLW and probably also going to have an illegal formation if the linemen are not approximately parallel to the LOS.

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3891
  • FAN REACTION: +177/-149
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2024, 11:46:55 AM »
The coach is probably not in the coaching box as they are usually part of the act in the restricted area.  Go ahead and tag him with a SLW and probably also going to have an illegal formation if the linemen are not approximately parallel to the LOS.

Yeah, the OC is standing close to the sideline to make it look like they are just two buds hangin' out, while the hideout end is facing the sideline. Or, the hideout wide receiver is actually a back, so he can face any direction. No matter. This is all still an attempt to confuse/deceive Team B, and is illegal. Let the flag fly when the ball gets snapped.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 4050
  • FAN REACTION: +106/-303
  • High School (MA & RI)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2024, 01:53:04 PM »
So a follow-up here.  We have always been "advised" that if B covers the A player to let this one pass but what if the B player was on the inside receiver and rushed out to cover the "hideout" and then the inside guy caught a long pass.  Shouldn't we still have a flag?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3891
  • FAN REACTION: +177/-149
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2024, 02:05:39 PM »
So a follow-up here.  We have always been "advised" that if B covers the A player to let this one pass but what if the B player was on the inside receiver and rushed out to cover the "hideout" and then the inside guy caught a long pass.  Shouldn't we still have a flag?

11 on 11, and all players get covered, even if at the last second, a 'pass' on this, followed by a warning, would seem OK. But, as you say, if they gain an unfair advantage by this deception, let the flag fly. 

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2959
  • FAN REACTION: +112/-58
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2024, 06:55:23 PM »
When coaches to explain these trick plays in pregame, my first question is, "Can you run it to the other teams sideline?"  Uh, nope. 

Offline ump_ben

  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-0
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2024, 10:47:58 AM »
When coaches to explain these trick plays in pregame, my first question is, "Can you run it to the other teams sideline?"  Uh, nope.

Check out play #3 here (the A sideline is the top of your screen).  When it was discussed somebody tried to make your same point not realizing that.

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3891
  • FAN REACTION: +177/-149
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: "Hideout" play discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2024, 10:19:33 AM »
Check out play #3 here (the A sideline is the top of your screen).  When it was discussed somebody tried to make your same point not realizing that.

What play #3? Where?