NEW YEAR = NEW RULES (maybe).......

[GoodScout]

If I were a coach, I would never coach my players to fumble on purpose for any reason. Oblong balls can bounce any direction, and anything can happen.

And I echo the appreciation for the thought and effort that Ralph and others on the committee put into these considerations.

[SCline]

(1)  Can't attach stuff to mouthguard. YES
(2)  Unaltered pants must cover knees. I GUESS
(3)  Sweatbands allowed anywhere. YES
(4)  No high-tech stuff allowed on players in the game. I GUESS, a lot of the high-tech stuff the players are going to wear is going to be under jerseys I think so not sure how we would police this anyway.
(5)  Eyeshade can have have logo or trademark. WHAT IS MEANT BY TRADEMARK? I’d prefer not to see eyeshade with a Nike Swoosh on it, okay with a school logo.
(6)  Playcards can be worn on belt. YES
(7) RTP on a potential passer in a passing posture . NO
(8)  W/I 3:00 of half for choice of clock on snap for penalty. NO, but there is a clear advantage that the team leading could gain outside of 2 minutes
(9) Injured player can return if qtr. ends. YES, the 1 minute between quarters is longer than the time between plays. Plus it reduces workload on the officials to ensure that the injured player doesn’t come out of what is typically a large huddle between quarters
(10) 12 in game = IS. NO. current rule seems to be proportional penalties
(11) Any whistle = IW. NO. Let the current rules do this work
(12) Forward fumble OOB = ball back to spot of fumble. NO. Not a problem in high school
(13) Inbounds FK dead by touch of OOB R = no foul R's ball there. YES
(14) R can't have player over snapper when in SKF. YES
(15) IG = spot of foul + LOD, no yardage. NO, this would create a situation where there is effectively no penalty for the foul. If passer just gets sacked then it’s the same situation. The 5 yards is effectively punishment for not taking the sack.
(16) QB over LOS can't come back and forward pass. YES. Rarely seen it but allows us to officiate this play easier
(17) DPI = 15+AFD, OPI = 10 yards. YES
(18)Hurdle OK if  tackle is below waist. NO. NO. NO
(19) Grabing helmet =15, no more 5 yd. FM. NO
(20) USC during TD = live ball foul from spot. NO. I don’t mind the idea, how it will work in practice I worry about.
(21)  FULL REWRITE OF IP ON OOB. YES. Penalty doesn’t fit the crime
(22) USC on coach if player not with proper equipment. KIND OF. Have an equipment warning on the team and then next is USC on coach.

[GoodScout]

One thing I can suggest, Ralph, is please, please let the editorial team's work be reviewed by those of you who voted on the rule changes before they're released. It seems way too often we start the season in a malaise of confusion, and sometimes it takes another year before editorial mistakes can be corrected or re-written.

[Rob S]

(1)  Can't attach stuff to mouthguard. - Yes
(2)  Unaltered pants must cover knees. - Yes
(3)  Sweatbands allowed anywhere. - No
(4)  No high-tech stuff allowed on players in the game. - Yes
(5)  Eyeshade can have have logo or trademark. - No
(6)  Playcards can be worn on belt. - Sure
(7) RTP on a potential passer in a passing posture . - Not sure what this would be for?
(8)  W/I 3:00 of half for choice of clock on snap for penalty. - No
(9) Injured player can return if qtr. ends. - Indifferent
(10) 12 in game = IS. - Rather get rid of IP's 15 yards for accidentally stepping OOB (which I see is below). Probably support.
(11) Any whistle = IW. - No
(12) Forward fumble OOB = ball back to spot of fumble. - Yes
(13) Inbounds FK dead by touch of OOB R = no foul R's ball there. - No, just another exception
(14) R can't have player over snapper when in SKF. - Yes
(15) IG = spot of foul + LOD, no yardage. - No, takes away any real penalty
(16) QB over LOS can't come back and forward pass. - Sure
(17) DPI = 15+AFD, OPI = 10 yards. - No
(18)Hurdle OK if  tackle is below waist. - No
(19) Grabing helmet =15, no more 5 yd. FM. - Yes
(20) USC during TD = live ball foul from spot. - Yes
(21)  FULL REWRITE OF IP ON OOB. - Yes please
(22) USC on coach if player not with proper equipment. - Need something more than "send off for a play", so yes?

[ilyazhito]

Happy new year to all and, as always, here are the rule change proposals. I value your opinions highly and will bring your suggestions to our national meeting on January 12-14. Thank you in advance for your response :

(1)  Can't attach stuff to mouthguard.
Yes
(2)  Unaltered pants must cover knees.
Yes
(3)  Sweatbands allowed anywhere.
No
(4)  No high-tech stuff allowed on players in the game.
Yes
(5)  Eyeshade can have have logo or trademark.
No
(6)  Playcards can be worn on belt.
Yes
(7) RTP on a potential passer in a passing posture .
Yes
(8)  W/I 3:00 of half for choice of clock on snap for penalty.
No
(9) Injured player can return if qtr. ends.
Yes
(10) 12 in game = IS.
Yes. This would help get rid of IP.
(11) Any whistle = IW.
No
(12) Forward fumble OOB = ball back to spot of fumble.
Yes
(13) Inbounds FK dead by touch of OOB R = no foul R's ball there.
Yes
(14) R can't have player over snapper when in SKF.
Yes
(15) IG = spot of foul + LOD, no yardage.
Yes. No double jeopardy'
(16) QB over LOS can't come back and forward pass.
Yes.
(17) DPI = 15+AFD, OPI = 10 yards.
Yes
(18)Hurdle OK if  tackle is below waist.
Yes
(19) Grabing helmet =15, no more 5 yd. FM.
Yes
(20) USC during TD = live ball foul from spot.
Yes
(21)  FULL REWRITE OF IP ON OOB.
Yes.
(22) USC on coach if player not with proper equipment.
Yes. Warn, then USC.
 


                         

[Ralph Damren]

whoops !!! 

Upon recieving our questionairre results I noted that I've left off a very important proposal : " Clock to start on RFP if ball carrier or fumble goes OOB except in last 2:00 if each half." Please respond with your opinion. I've given all of you a 'cheer'  for my screwup

MOST OFFICIALS' RESPONSES TO QUESTIONAIRE :

                                               OHIO         911
                                                                                     PENN          778
                                                                                     ILL              709

RESPONSE TO ABOVE QUESTION :
                           COACHES    33%  yes    OFFICIALS     75%

AGAIN, SORRY FOR MISSING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSAL ON INITIAL POST                   /color]     

[bama_stripes]

I’m for it, but I doubt it will pass if only 1/3 of the coaches are for it.  Coaches want to run as many plays as possible.

I’m really surprised that NFHS hasn’t gone to 15-minute quarters.

[MAFBRef]

I’m a NO on the RFP outside of 2 minutes in each half. With due respect to the professional clock operators on this board, there aren’t a lot of them working high school games. Quite a few high school clock operators are struggling now based upon the number of clock resets I call in my games.

[lawdog]

No we don't need another part of NCAA timing rules for no reason.  High school games are not long.  Ridiculous. Add a complication for no benefit.  great idea.... 

HELL NO!!!!!

[BTP]

High school games are not long. 

Um . . .

[GA Umpire]

 Clock to start on RFP if ball carrier or fumble goes OOB except in last 2:00 if each half." Please respond with your opinion.

NO!

[ncwingman]

That's a no from me as well.

I'm with lawdog that I don't think games are too long as a rule. I'm also not a fan of those who feel we need to make the games as short as humanly possible -- I enjoy doing this and enjoy being out there as long as it takes, and don't think our goal is to try and get home ASAP. If your goal in officiating is collecting a check and getting back to your couch, I'd suggest you rethink why you're doing this.

[Ia-Ref]

I only have two that I feel must happen. Please. Please.

#13 No rule change, JUST ADD DETAIL TO CASEBOOK PLAY Rule 6.1.9 situation C (b)

#21 IP when oob.

[Rich]

whoops !!! 

Upon recieving our questionairre results I noted that I've left off a very important proposal : " Clock to start on RFP if ball carrier or fumble goes OOB except in last 2:00 if each half." Please respond with your opinion. I've given all of you a 'cheer'  for my screwup

MOST OFFICIALS' RESPONSES TO QUESTIONAIRE :

                                               OHIO         911
                                                                                     PENN          778
                                                                                     ILL              709

RESPONSE TO ABOVE QUESTION :
                           COACHES    33%  yes    OFFICIALS     75%

AGAIN, SORRY FOR MISSING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSAL ON INITIAL POST                   /color]     

I gotta say this is really no different than the restart after a first down inbounds, so our timers would adjust. 

Our games have gone from an average of 2:10 or so 15 years ago to over 2:30 today.  We had 2 games last year over 3:00 and we work as fast as we can.  There will still be long games when the forward passes hit the ground frequently, of course, but there's no reason to start on the snap on a run out of bounds early in a quarter/half other than "that's the way we've always done it."

[GoodScout]

No no no no no no no!!!!!

Violates two precepts: 1) Let the kids play and quit trying to shorten game, and 2) Don’t ape NCAA rules just for the hell of it.

Count this official as 100% with a majority of the coaches.

[ilyazhito]

whoops !!! 

Upon recieving our questionairre results I noted that I've left off a very important proposal : " Clock to start on RFP if ball carrier or fumble goes OOB except in last 2:00 if each half." Please respond with your opinion. I've given all of you a 'cheer'  for my screwup

MOST OFFICIALS' RESPONSES TO QUESTIONAIRE :

                                               OHIO         911
                                                                                     PENN          778
                                                                                     ILL              709

RESPONSE TO ABOVE QUESTION :
                           COACHES    33%  yes    OFFICIALS     75%

AGAIN, SORRY FOR MISSING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSAL ON INITIAL POST                   /color]     

RFP outside last 2 minutes = yes. This will significantly speed up games, especially those that are one-sided, but that do not fall under the mercy rule. This also disincentivizes officials from fudging whether a runner ended in or out of bounds (without this change, officials would treat a runner as inbounds to keep the clock running).

[NVFOA_Ump]

RFP outside last 2 minutes = yes. This will significantly speed up games, especially those that are one-sided, but that do not fall under the mercy rule. This also disincentivizes officials from fudging whether a runner ended in or out of bounds (without this change, officials would treat a runner as inbounds to keep the clock running).

I've got absolutely no issue with officials "fudging" the OB/no OB in a game that is clearly non-competitive.  I do have issues with trying to speed up the game unnecessarily.  IMHO there is no need to try and shave another 3-5 minute of active play time off the clock.  The players want to play and I'm good grabbing my 1st beer a couple of hours after opening kickoff.  let's stop trying to shorten the game and do our job.

[bama_stripes]

Prior to the 1996 timing changes, my average game time was 1:45.  It’s now 2:25.
(Admittedly, that was in the days when many teams still ran some version of triple option and halftime was 15 minutes with no mandatory warmup period.)

It got bad enough that our state had to mandate a 7:00 PM start time (rather than 7:30) so that local TV could get the highlights on their 10:00 news shows.  Even so, most have now moved to a 10:30 package.

My biggest beef is that, with few exceptions, the sit-down restaurants all close at 10:00. 

[Snapper]

Upon recieving our questionairre results I noted that I've left off a very important proposal : " Clock to start on RFP if ball carrier or fumble goes OOB except in last 2:00 if each half." Please respond with your opinion.

I'm ok with that.

[east louis]

Happy new year to all and, as always, here are the rule change proposals. I value your opinions highly and will bring your suggestions to our national meeting on January 12-14. Thank you in advance for your response :

(1)  Can't attach stuff to mouthguard. NO
(2)  Unaltered pants must cover knees.YES & BRING BACK 5 YD PEN
(3)  Sweatbands allowed anywhere.WHY?
(4)  No high-tech stuff allowed on players in the game.DONT NEED IT
(5)  Eyeshade can have have logo or trademark.NO
(6)  Playcards can be worn on belt.OK
(7) RTP on a potential passer in a passing posture . NO,RULE GOOD AS IT IS
(8)  W/I 3:00 of half for choice of clock on snap for penalty. 2:00 IS GOOD ENOUGH
(9) Injured player can return if qtr. ends. ONE PLAY
(10) 12 in game = IS. KILL AT SNAP OR ITS ON US
(11) Any whistle = IW. NO
(12) Forward fumble OOB = ball back to spot of fumble. PROVIDED A B-BAG IS DOWN
(13) Inbounds FK dead by touch of OOB R = no foul R's ball there. OK
(14) R can't have player over snapper when in SKF. YES
(15) IG = spot of foul + LOD, no yardage. OK
(16) QB over LOS can't come back and forward pass. ABSOLUTELY NOT
(17) DPI = 15+AFD, OPI = 10 yards. NO,ITS EVEN NOW
(18)Hurdle OK if  tackle is below waist. NO
(19) Grabing helmet =15, no more 5 yd. FM. 15'S ONLY & THEY'LL ADJUST
(20) USC during TD = live ball foul from spot. YES
(21)  FULL REWRITE OF IP ON OOB. HMMMM? IDK
(22) USC on coach if player not with proper equipment. SEE #2

[Ralph Damren]

I begin my pilgrimage to Windy Indy on Saturday morn and will be tabuling and posting your pro/con results tommorrow. If you wish to voice/post your opinion please do it soon. I do take your responses seriously and often use some of your opinions in my debates.

AS A NOTARY -IN MAINE WE CAN MARRY - MAY I SAY:

"SPEAK NOW ,OR FOREVER (for a year) HOLD YOUR PEACE" 

[AlUpstateNY]

Via con Deus.

[NVFOA_Ump]

(1)  Can't attach stuff to mouthguard. NO
(2)  Unaltered pants must cover knees.  YES
(3)  Sweatbands allowed anywhere.  No Opinion
(4)  No high-tech stuff allowed on players in the game. YES
(5)  Eyeshade can have have logo or trademark. No Opinion
(6)  Playcards can be worn on belt. YES
(7) RTP on a potential passer in a passing posture . NO
(8)  W/I 3:00 of half for choice of clock on snap for penalty. NO
(9) Injured player can return if qtr. ends. YES
(10) 12 in game = IS - But must be DB B&T
(11) Any whistle = IW. NO
(12) Forward fumble OOB = Spot of Fumble if forward
(13) Inbounds FK dead by touch of OOB R = no foul R's ball there. YES
(14) R can't have player over snapper when in SKF. YES
(15) IG = spot of foul + LOD, no yardage. YES - and wind game clock if applicable
(16) QB over LOS can't come back and forward pass. NO
(17) DPI = 15+AFD, OPI = 10 yards. NO, no changes needed
(18) Hurdle OK if  tackle is below waist. NO
(19) Grabing helmet =15, no more 5 yd. FM. NO
(20) USC during TD = live ball foul from spot. YES
(21)  FULL REWRITE OF IP ON OOB. YES
(22) USC on coach if player not with proper equipment. NO - just sit down player until fixed


Regarding #22 - I would suggest something like:
       1st occurrence - send out to fix, no penalty
       2nd occurrence - send out to fix and DOG, TO charged to team
       3rd occurrence - USC and eject for repeated failure to follow official's instructions

[AlUpstateNY]

Your penalty progression sounds practical &proper.  The USC, I hope, would be levied against the Head Coach (which would put him One away from the lockerroom).

[Ralph Damren]

I've tabulated your responses along with several PMs. It total 16 have offered their opinions, note not all had an opinion for each proposal. I've posted the results on my opening post. Thank you all very much for sharing your thoughts, I value them.