Question of the Day

[ElvisLives]

Just keeping things alive.

Kickoff, A-40, 1:23 (2). A11’s kick is in flight when B80, at the B-25, makes a quick waving motion with his arm above his head. As the ball flies over his head, B80 moves forward and blocks A66 at the B-30. B99 catches the untouched ball in the end zone, where he takes a knee.
Ruling:

[dammitbobby]

The result of the play is a touchback, B 1/10 at the 25. However, B80 has committed an illegal block (6-5-4). The penalty will be enforced from the basic spot (25), so B 1/10 @15, PC 25, snap.

[TxBJ]

The basic spot on a kickoff is the previous spot. It the penalty is accepted they will rekick.

[Legacy Zebra]

The basic spot on a free kick play is the previous spot. However, this foul is not a basic spot foul. It has an enforcement spot listed in the penalty statement. 10 yards from the spot of the foul. It will be B’s ball at the B-20.

[ElvisLives]

The result of the play is a touchback, B 1/10 at the 25. However, B80 has committed an illegal block (6-5-4). The penalty will be enforced from the basic spot (25), so B 1/10 @15, PC 25, snap.

Bobby, if this a Basic Spot/3 & 1 enforcement foul, what is the Basic Spot for fouls that occur during the kick play portion of a down? The Previous Spot. So, if this is a BS/3&1 penalty, then, on a free kick play, it could only be enforced at the Previous Spot, and the kickoff repeated.
But, it isn’t a BS/3 & 1 penalty. In the penalty statement, it is 10-yards, enforced from the spot of the foul, with B next putting the ball in play by snap (1/10). Period. The penalty, from the B-30, would take the ball to the B-20, 1/10. Team A would accept the penalty. However, this foul could easily occur more than 10 yards ahead of the natural succeeding spot, in which case, Team A would decline.
This was once a 15-yard penalty, but, they realized it wasn’t a safety foul - just more of a procedural foul, i.e., an otherwise legal block that occurred when the block simply wasn’t permitted (just like Team A blocking early on a onside free kick). So, they reduced it to 10-yards.

[dammitbobby]

Thanks for correcting me. I thought about it being more than +10 yards downfield, but I couldn't rationalize that B could wind up with the ball ahead of the touchback spot, in which case A would decline. Kinda seems like it's a bit of a glitch that  benefits Team B fouling, if more than 10 yards ahead of succeeding spot, in that there's not really a penalty for the foul.

[ElvisLives]

Thanks for correcting me. I thought about it being more than +10 yards downfield, but I couldn't rationalize that B could wind up with the ball ahead of the touchback spot, in which case A would decline. Kinda seems like it's a bit of a glitch that  benefits Team B fouling, if more than 10 yards ahead of succeeding spot, in that there's not really a penalty for the foul.

The point of the question was two-fold: 1) to illustrate that blocking after making a signal and not touching the ball is a foul, and 2) conveying the fact that the penalty is different than most fouls involving player contact, being, specifically, enforced from the spot of the foul (and not a BS/3&1 enforcement). In that endeavor, it succeeded.
As for Team B benefitting from the foul, this is no different than Team A declining an offside penalty when Team A gains 6 yards and a first down, or Team B declining a Team A holding penalty when Team A loses more than 10 yards.

FYI, I actually had the illegal block foul occur several season ago, and Team A did, in fact decline the penalty, because the dead-ball spot was more than 10-yards behind the spot of the foul.

[peterparsons]

For our clinic earlier in the year, I was asked to give a presentation on 3&1. Something I learnt while putting that talk together is that the all the penalties which use 3&1 enforcement are found in Rule 9.

So, if you're not in Rule 9, you're not going to use 3&1. There will be a stated enforcement and we just have to remember what it is.

[dammitbobby]

The point of the question was two-fold: 1) to illustrate that blocking after making a signal and not touching the ball is a foul, and 2) conveying the fact that the penalty is different than most fouls involving player contact, being, specifically, enforced from the spot of the foul (and not a BS/3&1 enforcement). In that endeavor, it succeeded.
As for Team B benefitting from the foul, this is no different than Team A declining an offside penalty when Team A gains 6 yards and a first down, or Team B declining a Team A holding penalty when Team A loses more than 10 yards.

FYI, I actually had the illegal block foul occur several season ago, and Team A did, in fact decline the penalty, because the dead-ball spot was more than 10-yards behind the spot of the foul.

Meant to say yesterday that I do appreciate these questions, if for no other reason than they make me a better official, and I'd rather take a stab at it here and get it wrong (where I can be corrected and given explanation) rather than getting it wrong during a game.

[ElvisLives]

Meant to say yesterday that I do appreciate these questions, if for no other reason than they make me a better official, and I'd rather take a stab at it here and get it wrong (where I can be corrected and given explanation) rather than getting it wrong during a game.

Great discussions. Keep ‘em coming.

[TxBJ]

Meant to say yesterday that I do appreciate these questions, if for no other reason than they make me a better official, and I'd rather take a stab at it here and get it wrong (where I can be corrected and given explanation) rather than getting it wrong during a game.

I agree.