A few momentum scenarios and a Fair Catch question....

[Fatso]

What happens in these situations?

1. B7 intercepts a pass at the B-3 yd line, momentum carries him into the endzone where he eventually takes a knee giving himself up. 

2. B7 intercepts a pass at the B-3 yd line, momentum carries him into the endzone where he is hit and fumbles and the ball rolls out of the back of the endzone.

3. B7 intercepts a pass at the B-3 yd line, momentum carries him into the endzone where he is hit and fumbles and the ball is recovered in the endzone by his teammate B27.

4. B7 intercepts a pass at the B-3 yd line, momentum carries him into the endzone where he is hit and fumbles and the ball is recovered by A15 in the endzone.

5. During a Free Kick, R22 signals and fair catches the ball at his own 10 yd line.


Thank You!

[ncwingman]

Scenarios 1-3 are all the same - B's ball 1st and 10 at the 3.

Scenario 4 is a touchdown for A.


The first three are all basically the same, momentum is the "force" that put the ball in the end zone where it became dead in Team B possession. The ball is returned to the spot of momentum.

The ball is not automatically dead or awarded to B when momentum is in play, so if B fumbles the ball they don't get a momentum spot like a spot of first touching. If A recovers the fumble, it's A's ball.


Scenario 5 - 1st and 10 R at the R10.

There's no rule like they have in NCAA that you can fair catch a free kick and put it at the 25. They can take the ball at the spot of the fair catch.

[bama_stripes]

Don’t forget that what we refer to as “momentum” is actually an exception.  Prior to the exception, Situations 1-3 would have resulted in a safety for A.

[Fatso]

Ok thanks.


What about if B is in their own endzone under the momentum exception and during the return B has a holding or blindside block foul in the endzone?  I assume they would lose the momentum exception and result is a safety.

[ncwingman]

Ok thanks.


What about if B is in their own endzone under the momentum exception and during the return B has a holding or blindside block foul in the endzone?  I assume they would lose the momentum exception and result is a safety.

They don't lose the exception. The basic spot is the spot of momentum (B3) and the foul occurred behind the spot, in the end zone which is enforced as a safety. If B had intercepted a pass in the end zone (no momentum) and that foul occurred, it would also be a safety.

[Fatso]

They don't lose the exception. The basic spot is the spot of momentum (B3) and the foul occurred behind the spot, in the end zone which is enforced as a safety. If B had intercepted a pass in the end zone (no momentum) and that foul occurred, it would also be a safety.

Yeah thats what I meant, the result of the play would be a safety.  Thanks.

[refjeff]

Yeah thats what I meant, the result of the play would be a safety.  Thanks.

  Good questions though.  The momentum exception is rare enough that many officials are not too certain.

[NVFOA_Ump]

They don't lose the exception. The basic spot is the spot of momentum (B3) and the foul occurred behind the spot, in the end zone which is enforced as a safety. If B had intercepted a pass in the end zone (no momentum) and that foul occurred, it would also be a safety.

Are you using 10-5-2 here?  "The enforcement spot for any foul by the defense is the goal line .....".  Or what specific rule or case book play covers this?

[ncwingman]

Are you using 10-5-2 here?  "The enforcement spot for any foul by the defense is the goal line .....".  Or what specific rule or case book play covers this?

After an interception, who is the defense?

I was splicing a little old language and new in that other post, however to be more precise, 10-4-4c - the basic spot is the spot of the foul for a foul by the team in possession that occurs behind the end of the run or related run following a change of possession. Since we're saying that foul occurred in the end zone, that results in a safety.

[NVFOA_Ump]

After an interception, who is the defense?

I was splicing a little old language and new in that other post, however to be more precise, 10-4-4c - the basic spot is the spot of the foul for a foul by the team in possession that occurs behind the end of the run or related run following a change of possession. Since we're saying that foul occurred in the end zone, that results in a safety.

So despite the continuing ongoing garbled language in the rule 10 enforcement procedures, the actual result is that the momentum exception in this case is canceled and the enforcement spot is the EZ resulting in a safety?

[bama_stripes]

So despite the continuing ongoing garbled language in the rule 10 enforcement procedures, the actual result is that the momentum exception in this case is canceled and the enforcement spot is the EZ resulting in a safety?

Yes. Case Book play 10.4.4 SIT E (c) is directly on point.

[ncwingman]

So despite the continuing ongoing garbled language in the rule 10 enforcement procedures, the actual result is that the momentum exception in this case is canceled and the enforcement spot is the EZ resulting in a safety?

Wandering a bit off topic here, and I'm sure people might disagree philosophically, but I would argue that when the momentum exception kicks in the "end of the run" remains the spot of momentum regardless of the position of the ball. The exception, I would also argue, doesn't actually kick in until the ball becomes dead in the end zone in B's possession. If the "end of the play" aspect of the exception doesn't happen, then the momentum exception never applied in the first place (or the ability for it to be applied was cancelled). This is more philosophical than strict rules reading, because there's not much in the rules about momentum, especially in complex scenarios.

In case of a penalty, we'd enforce the foul considering the end of the run being the spot of momentum, not B's end zone. If the penalty was a dead ball late hit by B at the B20, we'd enforce half the distance from the spot of momentum, not a safety. Or, if B56 blocks A88 in the back after the interception, but at the B5, it would be half the distance from the momentum spot, not a safety. The issue in the above scenarios is that a team fouled in their own end zone while in possession of the ball, which is always a safety.

If you're just trying to point out that Rule 10 is a garbled mess at the moment... well, 

[NVFOA_Ump]

If you're just trying to point out that Rule 10 is a garbled mess at the moment... well, 

So why can't the rule(s) regarding momentum exception simply state clearly when it does not apply?

[ncwingman]

So why can't the rule(s) regarding momentum exception simply state clearly when it does not apply?

Well, if the rules were written clearly, what would the editorial committee do next year? Job security through obfuscation. I think we're in agreement that most of the rule book, especially Rule 10, just needs burnt down and rebuilt from scratch.

However, 8-5-2a Exception outlines the very narrow situation where momentum does apply, therefore it would not apply unless 8-5-2a Exception applies. Explicitly outlining the scenarios when momentum doesn't apply would be very long and complex, because that's most of the time.

What exactly is the end game of your argument here? The word "momentum" doesn't appear in Rule 10 therefore we can't enforce fouls when momentum applies?

[NVFOA_Ump]

What exactly is the end game of your argument here? The word "momentum" doesn't appear in Rule 10 therefore we can't enforce fouls when momentum applies?

8-5-2a Exception could have a VERY SIMPLE "Unless team B is guilty of a foul in the EZ.", or something similar added at the end of the paragraph? So it's all in one single place?

[ncwingman]

8-5-2a Exception could have a VERY SIMPLE "Unless team B is guilty of a foul in the EZ.", or something similar added at the end of the paragraph? So it's all in one single place?

I'm not disagreeing that the rule book is poorly organized and probably needs an overhaul, but...

How is that different than if B fouled somewhere in the field of play?

I feel you're trying to argue that without this, it could be possible that a foul by B could be unenforceable. B doesn't elect to take the momentum spot like it's a spot of first touching. I guess I'm not really understanding what you're concerned about, other than "The Rule Book is written poorly".

What would happen if B intercepts the pass at the B3, maybe runs around a bit, but is tackled at the B3? How would you enforce penalties during that down - pre/post COP, in the end zone, in the field of play, etc.? Well, the momentum exception is in place so when the ball is intercepted at the B3 and momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball becomes dead, the exception is to state "okay, the dead ball spot is the B3, as if he was tackled there" -- and after that, all penalty enforcements are the same as if he was just directly tackled at the B3. It's not different. Why does it have to be more complicated?