Kirby on the field

[Covid 22]

I was watching the Georgia game when Kirby ran on the field trying to call "time out".   I have now read multiple articles and watched numerous video discussions on the play.

My question is: If he wasn't trying to call time out, why wasn't he flagged for being on the field.   It seems to me the best option for the officials would have been to say:  Coach, I will give you a choice, a time out if that is what you were trying to do or a penalty for being on the field.

Not one statement that I have seen or read has brought out this option.   Am I missing something?

[zebrastripes]

In the same game Hugh Freeze threw his headset after the goal line review, while also on the field, and wasn’t penalized.

Brian Kelly has been contacted by officials in the white twice this season and those crews didn’t even give a warning.

Unfortunately, the reality is in CFB coaches rule the roost, and naturally many officials worry about penalizing them out of fear of the coach complaining to the assigner, who answers to the coaches and commissioner, and the assigner viewing them as high maintenance for doing their job. It’s not a whole lot different from the pants not covering the knees.

A couple years ago there was a point of emphasis about automatically flagging coaches for  entering the field and disputing decisions. It was enforced strictly that season, but predictably now it’s not really worried about anymore.

Some of the conduct of these coaches that gets ignored in NCAA football would get me fired from my NCAA basketball conferences if I didn’t deal with it.

[peterparsons]

Play 7 of this week's Training Video has a coach on the field complaining (Indiana-Oregon) and the guidance that a 15 yard flag is wanted in this situation.

[zebrastripes]

Play 7 of this week's Training Video has a coach on the field complaining (Indiana-Oregon) and the guidance that a 15 yard flag is wanted in this situation.

I was very pleased to see SS finally address coaches’ behavior this week. And in that situation specifically, he made clear that the incorrect DPI  no-call had no bearing on the IU coach needing a UNS. He even acknowledged that the wing waited too long to throw the flag and it should have been thrown when the coach was at the numbers.

And on the media video, he highlighted a coach in the white in the Washington State-Ole Miss game getting run into by an official and it being correctly penalized.

Maybe we’ll finally see more flags on these actions now that it’s been addressed.

[ilyazhito]

In the same game Hugh Freeze threw his headset after the goal line review, while also on the field, and wasn’t penalized.

Brian Kelly has been contacted by officials in the white twice this season and those crews didn’t even give a warning.

Unfortunately, the reality is in CFB coaches rule the roost, and naturally many officials worry about penalizing them out of fear of the coach complaining to the assigner, who answers to the coaches and commissioner, and the assigner viewing them as high maintenance for doing their job. It’s not a whole lot different from the pants not covering the knees.

A couple years ago there was a point of emphasis about automatically flagging coaches for  entering the field and disputing decisions. It was enforced strictly that season, but predictably now it’s not really worried about anymore.

Some of the conduct of these coaches that gets ignored in NCAA football would get me fired from my NCAA basketball conferences if I didn’t deal with it.

I'm curious. Why is it that NCAA basketball is less willing to tolerate sideline antics than NCAA football?

I'm also pleasantly surprised that Steve Shaw is addressing sideline misconduct. I had to throw a 15-yard penalty for sideline interference yesterday in a HS game because a coach was in the white during a play and I ran into him. I never have to deal with that in NCAA games because I am a back judge, but I have noticed that sidelines at the Division 3 level are MUCH cleaner than HS sidelines. I am surprised that FBS sidelines still have issues like coaches in the white during play, even with teams having a dedicated get-back coach at that level.

[dammitbobby]

Part of the issue here on some fields is width of non-playing field surface - we have some fields where the bleachers come to within 10 feet or so of the actual sideline. Being 'behind the white' puts them almost on the railings. But, some HS coaches just think that's 'their' area as well. Go figure.

That said - I wonder if Shaw addressing this really will change anything? Will it make independent* coordinators more likely to support this being called? I doubt it. (*'Independent' as in, not centralized in a hierarchy within NCAA, such as the 'One CFO' concept.)

[zebrastripes]

I'm curious. Why is it that NCAA basketball is less willing to tolerate sideline antics than NCAA football?

I'm also pleasantly surprised that Steve Shaw is addressing sideline misconduct. I had to throw a 15-yard penalty for Adeline interference yesterday in a HS game because a coach was in the white during a play and I ran into him. I never have to deal with that in NCAA games because I am a back judge, but I have noticed that sidelines at the Division 3 level are MUCH cleaner than HS sidelines. I am surprised that FBS sidelines still have issues like coaches in the white during play, even with teams having a dedicated get-back coach at that level.

Basketball is probably less tolerant because the proximity of the stands to the playing court makes coaches’ conduct much more visible and able to show up on film.

And it doesn’t surprise me at all that your D3 sidelines are much cleaner. Most HS wings wouldn’t throw a sideline warning if their lives depended on it.

[zebrastripes]

Part of the issue here on some fields is width of non-playing field surface - we have some fields where the bleachers come to within 10 feet or so of the actual sideline. Being 'behind the white' puts them almost on the railings. But, some HS coaches just think that's 'their' area as well. Go figure.

That said - I wonder if Shaw addressing this really will change anything? Will it make independent* coordinators more likely to support this being called? I doubt it. (*'Independent' as in, not centralized in a hierarchy within NCAA, such as the 'One CFO' concept.)

You’re probably right, on both points.

Easiest way to get the message across would be to send a memo making clear that conferences whose officials refuse to enforce sideline rules and decorum will forfeit CFP and bowl assignments. I’m sure that’s easier said than done, but that’s how I’d do it. The whole “one CFO” concept is a complete farce until all officials are supervised and assigned by CFO itself, and that will never happen as long as conferences operate in their own fiefdoms.

[Grant - AR]

even with teams having a dedicated get-back coach at that level.

In my experience, most teams do not have a dedicated get-back coach even at the top levels.  They may have someone that says they are the get-back coach and will help when you ask for help, but they are usually the strength and conditioning coach (or someone in a similar role) and are there to watch the game and do whatever the head coach tells them to.  When you question why they aren't doing their job, after multiple requests for them to get everyone back, they either get mad at you or say something like, "I'm trying to get them back but they won't listen to me."

It is definitely better at the higher levels, but it's not at the level it should be. 

[ElvisLives]

In my experience, most teams do not have a dedicated get-back coach even at the top levels.  They may have someone that says they are the get-back coach and will help when you ask for help, but they are usually the strength and conditioning coach (or someone in a similar role) and are there to watch the game and do whatever the head coach tells them to.  When you question why they aren't doing their job, after multiple requests for them to get everyone back, they either get mad at you or say something like, "I'm trying to get them back but they won't listen to me."

It is definitely better at the higher levels, but it's not at the level it should be.

Without 3-dimensional physical barriers (like in hockey), it won't get any better.