1st Down Mechanics - Ultra Fast No Huddle Offense

[NVFOA_Ump]

When Team A who is running an ultra-fast no huddle offense gains a first down and the clock is stopped to allow us to do our official housekeeping what is your accepted mechanic to "hold" the play until you give the "silent wind"/RFP?

[bama_stripes]

Have my U hold the ball until the box is set, then motioned him to set it and scurry away.  Not a perfect mechanic, but it seems to work.

I typically work with the same U every week, so that makes it much easier.

[riffraft]

Have my U hold the ball until the box is set, then motioned him to set it and scurry away.  Not a perfect mechanic, but it seems to work.

I typically work with the same U every week, so that makes it much easier.

As a U this is what I do. I set the ball and stand over the ball until the box is set.  R is looking at me and starts clock when I move. Chains will get there eventually

[TampaSteve]

what bama said.
But for literally "standing over the ball", round these parts: U stands on B side of the ball, but holds up a stop sign for QB/C until R waives him away.
(the stop sign shows up very well on film if there was any question whether A snapped too early or not)
I would add for U to communicate to QB/C to (paraphrase) "you can't snap it until I clear out. I will tell you when you may go" to snap the ball as U backs out of there.

[refjeff]

In Ohio we do not wait for the box.  We will silent wind when the crew is at, or very near, their positions.  On our crew the U will step away but give the stop sign and say "wait, wait,...OK." 

[lawdog]

In Ohio we do not wait for the box.  We will silent wind when the crew is at, or very near, their positions.  On our crew the U will step away but give the stop sign and say "wait, wait,...OK."

I personally think this is a recipe for disaster.  I never want to run a play without the box set.  how do you handle penalties or incompletes etc without having any reference point?  Teams don't need to run plays before we are ready whether they think they do or not.

[dammitbobby]

If we ae running fast and chains/downbox aren't there yet, we expect the wing to drop a beanbag at the LOS to mark the spot, so we don't have to make the offense slow down and wait (especially if they're the visiting team, chains crews sometimes tend to slow walk things).

[zebrastripes]

If you start a new series on a yard line, there’s no need to wait for the box or even drop a bag (though the latter doesn’t hurt). Memorize the yard line where the series started at.

[GoodScout]

Same as Bama. I hold over the ball with a stop sign for the center. Most referees trust me enough to know when to back out as soon as I see the box set. Some want to waive me off, which is fine.
I usually drop my stop sign, give a subtle point at the ball to let the center know he's good to go, and then quickly back out. After a few series both centers get the drill.

[AlUpstateNY]

Same as Bama. I hold over the ball with a stop sign for the center. Most referees trust me enough to know when to back out as soon as I see the box set. Some want to waive me off, which is fine.
I usually drop my stop sign, give a subtle point at the ball to let the center know he's good to go, and then quickly back out. After a few series both centers get the drill.

Reality is; You're talking "millisecond's", so getting it right is worth avoiding a "clusterf**K".  The Umpire, holding the Center to a "STOP sign", or the ball, until the chains, until EVERYTHING is ready avoids any needless grief.  The R still has "the whistle" and the EXCLUSIVE[/i] decision as to when play is READY.

[refjeff]

Reality is; You're talking "millisecond's", so getting it right is worth avoiding a "clusterf**K".  The Umpire, holding the Center to a "STOP sign", or the ball, until the chains, until EVERYTHING is ready avoids any needless grief.  The R still has "the whistle" and the EXCLUSIVE[/i] decision as to when play is READY.

No.  On a big gain it can several seconds, not thousandths of a second, for the chain crew to catch up.  We know where the LOS is, drop a bean bag if it want, and when we're ready we're going, and there is no whistle.

[AlUpstateNY]

No.  On a big gain it can several seconds, not thousandths of a second, for the chain crew to catch up.  We know where the LOS is, drop a bean bag if it want, and when we're ready we're going, and there is no whistle.

In many/most situations, a whistle may not be necessary, but GOD gave the Referee's a whistle, precisely for those unique situations where the Referee determines the "Ball is NOT READY" and the opportunity to delay play, momentarily until EVERYTHING  is ready (avoiding unnecessary problems).

[NVFOA_Ump]

No.  On a big gain it can several seconds, not thousandths of a second, for the chain crew to catch up.  We know where the LOS is, drop a bean bag if it want, and when we're ready we're going, and there is no whistle.

That conflicts with the specific reasons and rationale for the 40/25 second play clocks original adoption which was and is to make certain that we can keep a consistent repeatable flow of the game, not so A can go faster.  The offense does not have and has never had an automatic right to go as fast as they want.  There has always been one or more rules in place to stop the game clock on first downs to make sure that the required housekeeping can be done on 1st down plays.  "We know where the LOS is ...." has no rule support and no support in any of the officiating documents that I'm aware of.  The box is the official marker to start a new series, and the chains can later be set to the box while the 1st down play goes on.  But, in my games, that 1st down play does not go off until the box is in place.

[refjeff]

That conflicts with the specific reasons and rationale for the 40/25 second play clocks original adoption which was and is to make certain that we can keep a consistent repeatable flow of the game, not so A can go faster.  The offense does not have and has never had an automatic right to go as fast as they want.  There has always been one or more rules in place to stop the game clock on first downs to make sure that the required housekeeping can be done on 1st down plays.  "We know where the LOS is ...." has no rule support and no support in any of the officiating documents that I'm aware of.  The box is the official marker to start a new series, and the chains can later be set to the box while the 1st down play goes on.  But, in my games, that 1st down play does not go off until the box is in place.

OK, but waiting for the down box is the wrong mechanic in every game in the state of Ohio.

[Ted T]

That conflicts with the specific reasons and rationale for the 40/25 second play clocks original adoption which was and is to make certain that we can keep a consistent repeatable flow of the game, not so A can go faster.  The offense does not have and has never had an automatic right to go as fast as they want.  There has always been one or more rules in place to stop the game clock on first downs to make sure that the required housekeeping can be done on 1st down plays.  "We know where the LOS is ...." has no rule support and no support in any of the officiating documents that I'm aware of.  The box is the official marker to start a new series, and the chains can later be set to the box while the 1st down play goes on.  But, in my games, that 1st down play does not go off until the box is in place.

I concur.  Your assessment aligns with the way things work in Pennsylvania and I believe with the NFHS officials manual as well.

[zebrastripes]

If you get a chain crew that lollygags for the visiting team trying to run hurry up, good luck telling the visiting coach “Sorry Coach, we gotta wait for the chains/box.”

[NVFOA_Ump]

If you get a chain crew that lollygags for the visiting team trying to run hurry up, good luck telling the visiting coach “Sorry Coach, we gotta wait for the chains/box.”

We're primarily interested in getting the box in place.  And yes, we do tell the coach that this is an official administrative stoppage so we can do the required things before we wind the game clock.  There is 0 rule support for anything else.  That is 100% the reason the clock is stopped to begin with.

[zebrastripes]

We're primarily interested in getting the box in place.  And yes, we do tell the coach that this is an official administrative stoppage so we can do the required things before we wind the game clock.  There is 0 rule support for anything else.  That is 100% the reason the clock is stopped to begin with.

Zero rules support? Not sure what rule book you are reading.

3-6-1-b-2: The ball is ready for play starting immediately after the ball has been ruled dead by a game official after a down, the ball has been placed on the ground by a game official and the game official has stepped away to position as in 3-6-1a(2).

Nothing in there says anything about the box needing to be in place. Additionally, there is an NFHS mechanics point of emphasis for 24-25 that says: “After a first down inbounds, the ready-for-play occurs when the ball has been spotted and the game official who spotted the ball has stepped away into position. Under no circumstances should the ready be delayed if the chain crew is still moving and is not in position. In such a case, the linesman can drop a beanbag to mark the spot of the snap.”

Again, nothing about the box being in place and explicit guidance that a bean bag CAN be used to mark the original LOS. So if your state is giving you different guidance, that’s great, but acting like there isn’t NFHS support for dropping a bag is just wrong.

You’re going to have a really hard time when you get a box guy who hustles for the home team and loafs for the visitors. The visiting coach will rightfully be heated.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, when in a hurry be careful not to hurry too much. The HL should scan the field looking for yellow hankies before signaling the 'box dude' to begin his duty. Trying to reset the stakes that were inadvertently moved before seeing a flag, is a much bigger problem than a slow moving box dude. If he gets to the new spot in 3" (former track star) or 13" (double trip thru the buffet line) ;no one gains/looses as the clock is off until R's quiet #2 signal.

NOTE: When one signals #2, he/she may consider if the signal is from the inside of a clock looking out OR from the outside of the clock looking in.....

[NVFOA_Ump]

Zero rules support? Not sure what rule book you are reading.

3-6-1-b-2: The ball is ready for play starting immediately after the ball has been ruled dead by a game official after a down, the ball has been placed on the ground by a game official and the game official has stepped away to position as in 3-6-1a(2).

Nothing in there says anything about the box needing to be in place. Additionally, there is an NFHS mechanics point of emphasis for 24-25 that says: “After a first down inbounds, the ready-for-play occurs when the ball has been spotted and the game official who spotted the ball has stepped away into position. Under no circumstances should the ready be delayed if the chain crew is still moving and is not in position. In such a case, the linesman can drop a beanbag to mark the spot of the snap.”

Again, nothing about the box being in place and explicit guidance that a bean bag CAN be used to mark the original LOS. So if your state is giving you different guidance, that’s great, but acting like there isn’t NFHS support for dropping a bag is just wrong.

You’re going to have a really hard time when you get a box guy who hustles for the home team and loafs for the visitors. The visiting coach will rightfully be heated.

Again, by rule we are in a GAME CLOCK stoppage that is and has been defined as time to COMPLETE our administrative tasks needed to be ready for the next 1st down RFP.  Bags do not mark the beginning of the next series, the box does, and most states' mechanics manuals support that fact.  The original post was SPECIFCALLY intended to understand what mechanics you use to make sure that we are ready to go before the 1st down snap.  If the box guy is a problem, simple fix, replace the box guy.

[Fatso]

Just throwing this into the discussion.  This is from Louisiana mechanics manual:

With the 40- or 25-second play clock, it is possible the ball may be snapped prior to the
down-marker indicator being set. Should this rare situation occur, the short-wing official
on that sideline shall drop a bean bag at the spot where the down-marker operator shall
spot the down-marker indicator.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Just throwing this into the discussion.  This is from Louisiana mechanics manual:

With the 40- or 25-second play clock, it is possible the ball may be snapped prior to the
down-marker indicator being set. Should this rare situation occur, the short-wing official
on that sideline shall drop a bean bag at the spot where the down-marker operator shall
spot the down-marker indicator.

Except that the mechanic if we are not ready to go when we hit 25 seconds is to use the palms up signal to reset play clock to 25 seconds.  There is absolutely no rule support to allow the offense to dictate the pace of play when we are in a rule book defined administrative stoppage, none.

[zebrastripes]

Except that the mechanic if we are not ready to go when we hit 25 seconds is to use the palms up signal to reset play clock to 25 seconds.  There is absolutely no rule support to allow the offense to dictate the pace of play when we are in a rule book defined administrative stoppage, none.

Yes there is. I just cited it to you above. Please cite your rules reference that says the ball can’t be ready for play without the box.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Yes there is. I just cited it to you above. Please cite your rules reference that says the ball can’t be ready for play without the box.

I don't need to since there is no rules support to begin with regarding making the ball RFP before the crew is RFP.  That is a basic tenant of the game.  We are in an administrative stoppage.  The game clock is not running on a 1st down.

[zebrastripes]

I don't need to since there is no rules support to begin with regarding making the ball RFP before the crew is RFP.  That is a basic tenant of the game.  We are in an administrative stoppage.  The game clock is not running on a 1st down.

Lol, so you can’t quote anything authoritative to support your opinion / your state’s mechanics, and then when you get shown two references that dispute your claim, you double down and say “I don’t have to prove anything.”

I’m sure you don’t ever have issues in your games.