NFL and college offials at TASO "mini-camp"

[TexDoc]

Why?  What is the real objective in hosting an on-field training camp for high school officials, TASO?  Is it to train them to officiate games using NFL rules and mechanics?  Is it to train them to use 7 man college mechanics?  How many of these "trainers" have worked TASO 5 man mechanics in the last year?  Or the last 5 years for that matter?  We've done this before and it bombed, and we have learned nothing!  We've had NFL and college guys at state meetings telling TASO officials to work mechanics NOT approved by TASO.

Who are we trying to impress?  Why are we spending this money unnecessarily? 

This is one of the things TASO does year in and year out that just makes me want to puke and not support them!  It is just stupid.  Use officials for on-field training that work 5 man TASO mechanics all year.  They will do a much better job, understand the mechanics quite a bit better and will sure do it for cheaper!

Can you tell this bothers the IT out me?

[TXMike]

If the event loses money then I agree with you 100%.  However, it is my understanding the event pays for itself each year.  Nobody is forced to go.  But if some folks want to, why would you deny them that since they are paying their own way?  Furthermore, much of what goes on at the event IS applicable to officials working at any level.  It is not just about where to stand and where to look.  It is about what is and what is not a foul.  I can't speak to all of the events like this but the most recent one that was in SA included numerous TASO officials who were with each group to assist if a TASO-specific mechanics issue arose or a Tx HS rule exception arose. 

And yes, it is also about networking.  Professionals network as part of their career, why shouldn't officials who choose to network be allowed to do so also?

[TexDoc]

Not going to get into a back-and-forth about this because you certainly know my feelings.

TASO football is about high school football officiating in the state of Texas.  When it becomes about anything more than that, we've lost our focus.  UIL is not concerned about college or NFL officiating are they? 

Focus people.  If officials want to attend a clinic with NFL and college officials, there are plenty of opportunities to do that.  We don't need the "rock stars" showing up to try to impress new officials.

No one will ever convince me that officials will not show up to learn high school officiating taught by high school officials, exactly why TASO exists.  If we have to assign TASO officials to babysit the big guys, then what's the use?

And, I think we can both agree that we call the game a bit differently at the high school level than at the NFL or D1 colllege level.

Okay, I feel better after getting it off my chest.  I just have a real problem with this whole bit of garbage.

[TXMike]

Would you also want to forbid TASO from having vendors at our clinics who sell NCAA 7 man mechanics manuals?  Would you want us to forbid vendors who sell "NFL" watches?  They are there and folks can choose to buy or not.

This is still a free country although there are some who are doing their best in DC to make it not so.  And as long as it is a free country, folks can choose to pay their money for whatever lawful activity they wish to spend it on.  Clearly TASO should not subsidize these events but that is not the point. You don't even want TASO to be affiliated with them.  Our guys are all adults.  They can choose to attend or not.  They do not need nannys (or pappys) deciding for them.

Some guys will not even show up at TASO-only rules clinics.   

[TexDoc]

Oh brother, the best argument you have concerns vendors and nationalism?  Weak buddy, very weak.

This is about our TASO leadership making an idiotic decision, again!  That's what drives me nuts.  We've done it before and learned nothing from that mistake.  I cannot support TASO on this one.  It is just stupid.  But, not a deal breaker for my overwhelming support of TASO.  This garbage is just the burr that's been under my saddle for years.

Why don't we go ahead let vendors sell UIL apparel?  It makes money right?  Doesn't that seem like the objective here?  Or, are we hosting a clinic to teach high school football officials?

[TXMike]

The argument is choice versus no-choice.  You do not want to let ADULTS decide for themselves how to spend THEIR money.  NO TASO MONEY WAS SPENT. Seems to me you are just looking for something to gripe about.  I guarantee you that everyone who attended the one in San Antonio and kept their ears and eyes opened learned something.  I know I did and I was not even in on the on-field part.

Instead of burr in your saddle it seems like you have a stick up your "saddle cushion"

[TexDoc]

Wow, let's make it personal Mike.  Not much like you.  As I've said, there are plenty of other opportunities for guys to learn from NFL and college guys.  In my opinion, the state meeting is not the right place.  That comes from my direct experience and observations after 24 years of officiating and having taught at a state meeting breakout.

Our TASO board also has the choice to make the right decisions (my opinion again) and they have not. 

And, you're going to convince me no money is being spent to fly some of these guys in and pay for their rooms, per diem and meals?  How can that be?  If that's true, then my tone will change a bit, but it still doesn't change my mind about who is teaching high school officials.

Oh, and I like that TASO tattoo you now have on your rear.  You didn't have a problem criticizing wrong at one point, but that sure has changed.  Sorry, that was a cheap one, but true.

[TXMike]

If I see something wrong I will point it out.  I already said...if we were subsidizing it then it is wrong.  We are not subsidizing it.  I suspect you will be able to see the financials on the deal and decide for yourself.  You are ASSUMING it was a money drain.  Go to the source and ask them.  Obviously money was spent on expenses.  But the clinic was not free.  Guys had to pay a hefty amount WHICH THEY CHOSE TO DO. 

There are many aspects of the HS, college and NFL game that are similar.  How can you deny that?

[TexDoc]

"There are many aspects of the HS, college and NFL game that are similar.  How can you deny that?"

No, cannot deny there are many similarities, but you cannot deny those level are much different from the high school game, or we would all be working those games, right?  The point is, we have plenty of awesome guys that work high school (simultaneous with working college) that would do a great job of being a clinician for a camp like this.  You are a great example!  There is simply no need to bring anyone in without those credentials and seems counter to TASO's charter.  What is the stated objective of the state meeting and this mini-camp?  Is it about high school officiating in the state of Texas, or promoting high school officials to the next level (or giving some false sense that this is actually where that might happen)?  This, to me, is indicative of TASO losing its focus.

I sent a message to Mike about this.  I'm sure he will let me know about the financials should my assumption be incorrect.

[TXMike]

I thought you were talking about the on field clinics, i.e. the one that was just done in San Antonio.  You are talking about the state clinic?   

[TexDoc]

Did you receive the TASO email this morning concerning the state meeting that had this statement:

"Expanded On-Field-Mini-Clinics with separate sessions for veteran and newer officials; NFL and College instructors"

When I saw that, my head just about self ignited!  That would be a sight, huh?  My big melon on fire!

I don't agree with the on-field clinics that gain guys TASO points that have NFL and college instructors, but I think that's more of a local issue.  The TASO issue is that they allow the points.  If local chapters want a clinic like this, great.  I've learned a lot from the few times I went to Nac, but we knew what we were going there for, and it wasn't to learn about high school officiating.

[504coach]

Wow this is a classic back and forth between 2 heavy weights.  It takes me back to the GMCgriff days.

I will declare a winner... TEXDOC

TASO is for state of Texas 5 man officials.  For TASO to promote or accept points for anything else is stupid especially for mechanics.  If they wanted to talk about philosophy or game management then maybe allow it.  Whats next a breakout for 7on7 mechanics?  Atleast that would be more practical 7 on 7  is officiated by more TASO members then 7 man mechanics.

It is sad that TASO states mind set is the same as are local chapter members.  It seems everything has to be a competition.  "we have more college officials in my chapter, more coaches picked me to call their game my crew is obviously better, we have more guys in the NFL, we got more playoff games".  Who gives a crap enjoy the games you call and if you stop enjoying the games you call then quit and go play dominoes on Friday night.

[Getting Fat]

There were Texas high school games played last year using 7 man mechanics.  High school officials should be prepared to use 7 man mechanics when a 7 man crew is requested by coaches.

NFL and college guys have more credibility than high school guys.  Not saying they are better at this or that, but they will be listened to more attentively.

[TexDoc]

"There were Texas high school games played last year using 7 man mechanics.  High school officials should be prepared to use 7 man mechanics when a 7 man crew is requested by coaches."

And in every case, the request was for officials who have worked 7 man mechanics before.  That's understandable, but until we get more guys actually working 7 man mechanics in varsity games, that will continue.  I have no issue at all talking about 7 man mechanics.  But, when the college guys start talking to you about ball mechanics, are they under the assumption we don't have 10 year old coaches sons as ball boys?  Just one example.  The game is different using 7 man mechanics in the high school game vs the college game.  Oh, and what about the 40 second clock and all of those UIL exceptions.  I'm sure those college officials are very well versed on those.  Weak argument.


"NFL and college guys have more credibility than high school guys.  Not saying they are better at this or that, but they will be listened to more attentively."

That says a lot about the intelligence of our high school officials.  I give them move credit than you.

[rickref]

I like what college guys have to offer on certain items. But in a clinic for 5 man mechanics thinsg are just done differently they may not be up to speed on. I've been to San Antonio 5 man clinics before and several 7 man college clinics. If teh college guys are Texas guys and have some familiarity with what is done it should do well but I understand the docs arguement. 

[TXMike]

This was done in previous years and the critiques/reviews from those who actually participated were among the best of any session for the entire weekend.  The people who are attending obviously like them, even if you don't.  Maybe they are not ideal for the D-1 guy who is not interested in picking up new things. But they are great for the lower division guys who are getting a chance to interact with guys who DO have credibility, whether we like it or not.  

Furthermore, many of the folks doing the observing/teaching do it for free.  And a large percentage of them are guys who started in SOA/TASO.  

[rickref]

I can say from past experiance I got more out of my position at the San Antonio clinics with college guys input. To be fair I never was taught at another on field clinic outside my area with just a high school guy so all I have to compare is local training which at B was near non existant. I work B. Probably the most similar position across the two.

[Etref]

NFL and college officials can bring their experience on philosophy of officiating and dealing with coaches.

My only gripe is when they are asked a question on mechanics and the answer is " I work  man and don't remember 5 man mechanics."

If they study and know our mechanics great or have someone in the room with them who does know.

[beaye1]

"There were Texas high school games played last year using 7 man mechanics.  High school officials should be prepared to use 7 man mechanics when a 7 man crew is requested by coaches."

And in every case, the request was for officials who have worked 7 man mechanics before.  That's understandable, but until we get more guys actually working 7 man mechanics in varsity games, that will continue.  I have no issue at all talking about 7 man mechanics.  But, when the college guys start talking to you about ball mechanics, are they under the assumption we don't have 10 year old coaches sons as ball boys?  Just one example.  The game is different using 7 man mechanics in the high school game vs the college game.  Oh, and what about the 40 second clock and all of those UIL exceptions.  I'm sure those college officials are very well versed on those.  Weak argument.


"NFL and college guys have more credibility than high school guys.  Not saying they are better at this or that, but they will be listened to more attentively."

That says a lot about the intelligence of our high school officials.  I give them move credit than you.

  We have a lot of guys that take the time and effort to get 7 man mechanics experience, but are they used?  Of course not.  Those who get chosen to work the 7 man crews either officiate college games or are Div 1 who may have worked college in the past.  A lot of the NFL/college officials are still active in their chapters  and even though they may not do games at our level, they can still provide a philosophical approach because they have been in our shoes and I have benefited from advice I have been given at camps that I have been to.  And to tell you the truth, there are a lot of them that are aware of the timing rules and exceptions.

[williebe]

Well I will be enjoying the hospitality room that the San Antonio chapter will have and I'm sure this is not anywhere in the TASO or NFL mechanics manual. Lets have a goodtime and remember the season is getting closer.

[fencewire]

Now you can get in the NFL or college by going to TASO convention, but only if you're Div 1 or 2 and can sign up for 7 man sessions, or am I reading this wrong and 5 and 7 man clinics will be used in the 7 on 7 tourney.

The TASO 7 on 7 tournament at the state meeting has grown every year and will again have evaluators from the NFL, several College conferences as well as several Lonestar and ASC crew chiefs. In the past several officials have been able to move up into the  college ranks by participating in our 7 on 7 tournament. Crew Chiefs from the Lone Star and ASC will also be looking for alternates or perhaps even spots on crews to fill. There is also a good chance that an official who does well will have the opportunity to work an ASC game this year. So if you are an official looking for exposure to next level or just  want to get better and learn from some great veterans it would be a great idea to participate in the 7 on 7  tournament in San Antonio.

[beaye1]

Then I should pay $20.00 from now on if that is the case.  Who said this info?

[fencewire]

It was posted to the TASO FB blog last night.

http://tasofb.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/7-on-7-clinic-at-state-meeting/

Currently that URL is not fully working.

Here is the full text that was sent also to email.

  7 on 7 Clinic at State Meeting
txmike | June 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/pPwPk-5x 

Message from Ken Roan:

The TASO 7 on 7 tournament at the state meeting has grown every year and will again have evaluators from the NFL, several College conferences as well as several Lonestar and ASC crew chiefs. In the past several officials have been able to move up into the  college ranks by participating in our 7 on 7 tournament. Crew Chiefs from the Lone Star and ASC will also be looking for alternates or perhaps even spots on crews to fill. There is also a good chance that an official who does well will have the opportunity to work an ASC game this year. So if you are an official looking for exposure to next level or just  want to get better and learn from some great veterans it would be a great idea to participate in the 7 on 7  tournament in San Antonio.

[TXMike]

How are you seeing this as saying only D1 and D2 officials can participate?

[rsquare]

Here from TASO football site meeting agendaChapter Presidents & Secretaries Workshop

 
1:00pm - 3:00pm - Trinity University - Waxahachie
 
DESCRIPTION
TASO
 



Friday - 22 July 2011

 Position Breakouts #1: D5-D3

 
3:30pm - 7:00pm - Trinity Univeristy - EM Stevens Stadium
 
D5-D3 On-Field Clinic.  5-Man Mechanics. Fee: $20.00
 
Sergio Vega
 



Friday - 22 July 2011

 Position Breakouts #1: D2-D1

 
3:30pm - 7:00pm - Trinity University - EM Stevens Stadium
 
D2-D1 On-Field Clinic.  7-Man Mechanics.  Fee: $20.00
 
Sergio Vela
 



Friday - 22 July 2011

 Position Breakouts #1: 6-Man

 
3:30pm - 7:00pm - Alamo Stadium (Next to Trinity University)
 
Six Man Football Mechanics.  Fee: Free (waived)
 
Sergio Vega
 



Friday - 22 July 2011

 Position Breakouts #1: Sub-Varsity

 
3:30pm - 7:00pm - Trinity University - Intermural Field       
 
2 & 3 Man Mechanics
 
Sergio Vela