UNS by Team B player on a try

[sj_31]

Apologies if this has been covered...

Am I interpreting a facet of the new 2011 UNS as LB fouls correctly, in that per 8-3-3-b-1, it only states that personal fouls can be carried over to the KO/OT. We used to throw UNS in there too per 8-3-3-d-2 because it was an LB penalized as a DB. However, now that UNS fouls by players are true LB fouls, does Team A have to decline an LB Team B UNS foul in order to keep the score and also no carryover?
(still the "old" rules for a play that ends in a TD per 10-2-5-a-1)

[TXMike]

Good find.  Appears to be a slight glitch.  10-2-5-a-1 makes it clear that live ball UNS can carry over  Maybe they forgot to clean up the rule 8 reference

[sj_31]

10-2-5-a (not -1) states (not on the try) and 10-2-5-e states basically "see rule 8 for penalties on the try." so technically 10-2-5-a-1 doesn't cover it, although I agree that I may be overly technical and reading too much into the rule.

[TXMike]

Sorry, read thru the orig post too quick.  Thought you were atlkign about TD plays.

[TexRef2280]

Can someone remind me on a penalty enforcement....if Team A makes a first down on the B20, then A commits a deadball UNS penalty after the play ends, will it be A 1/10 @ 35 or A 1/25 @ 35? Thanks.

[El Macman]

Can someone remind me on a penalty enforcement....if Team A makes a first down on the B20, then A commits a deadball UNS penalty after the play ends, will it be A 1/10 @ 35 or A 1/25 @ 35? Thanks.

1st and 10.  This is a foul between series, and when there is foul beween series, the down and distance will 1st and 10, after the penalty.

[sj_31]

It will always be 1/10 unless the dead ball foul occurs after the RFP. If the chains are set, then you could have 1/25, but not until then.

[TexRef2280]

Thanks guys!!!

[SJ_2010]

Apologies if this has been covered...

Am I interpreting a facet of the new 2011 UNS as LB fouls correctly, in that per 8-3-3-b-1, it only states that personal fouls can be carried over to the KO/OT. We used to throw UNS in there too per 8-3-3-d-2 because it was an LB penalized as a DB. However, now that UNS fouls by players are true LB fouls, does Team A have to decline an LB Team B UNS foul in order to keep the score and also no carryover?
(still the "old" rules for a play that ends in a TD per 10-2-5-a-1)

Did sj_31's original question ever get an answer?  My guess is TXMike is correct and they carry over but where is the rules support?

[JasonTX]

10-2-5-a-1 is all we need.   The rule states that it can carry over at the option of the scoring team.

[Kalle]

10-2-5-a-1 is all we need.   The rule states that it can carry over at the option of the scoring team.

10-2-5-a-1 explicitly does not apply to tries. But, as rule 8-3-4-a has had UNSs added to the list, I'd say the rule 8-3-3-b-1 is just an oversight and UNSs should carry over even during tries.

[El Macman]

This, indeed, was acknowledged as an oversight some weeks ago. See below. Expect it to be formalized via bulletin, probably in August.
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From: Rogers Redding
Date: July 6, 2011 9:33:57 AM CDT

Subject: Re: Rules Question


Thanks for these questions. 

In the case of UNS fouls on the try:  the questioner is correct that 8-3-3-b-1 covers only personal fouls, and it is probably an oversight that UNS fouls were not included here.  Note that in 10-2-5-a-1 (FR-98) unsportsmanlike conduct fouls are included.  Thus the spirit of the rule would dictate that UNS fouls should also be included along with personal fouls in 8-3-3-b-1. 

Therefore, by interpretation, penalties for live-ball unsportsmanlike conduct fouls by players are to be treated like personal fouls in 8-3-3-b-1.  I will include such a play in the first play situations bulletin of the season.

In the case of roughing the passer, as the questioner says, the intent of the change is to give roughing protection to the QB who grounds the ball or is beyond the neutral zone when he throws a forward pass.  This is a player-safety issue and such a player should not be susceptible to a "free shot" by an opponent.  If it happens after a change of possession or during a kickoff the same logic applies.  It would look odd, no doubt, but such plays happen so seldom that it is not worth making an exception.

Hope this helps!

Take care,
Rog



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The questions:

Previously, unsportsmanlike conduct fouls that occurred during a down were classified as "live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls," and, when they occurred during a Try,  they could be 'carried over' to the kickoff or succeeding spot with rule 8-3-3-d-2. For 2011, unsportsmanlike conduct fouls that occur during a down are live-ball fouls, so 8-3-3-d-2 no longer covers those fouls during a Try. Currently, 8-3-3-b-1 covers only personal fouls, and not unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. If interpreted strictly, for team A to accept any points on a Try, penalties for live-ball unsportsmanlike conduct fouls would have to be declined.

I'm sure we are still to 'carry-over' penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct fouls during a successful Try to the kickoff or succeeding spot, but the current rule language doesn't seem to cover this. Can you clarify?


The editorial change to 2-27-5 removed the requirement for a pass to be legal for a player to be considered a passer. While this gives roughing-the-passer protection to a QB that intentionally grounds a pass, or throws a pass from beyond the neutral zone, it also would also seem to give protection to a player that throws a forward pass when it is not permitted, such as during a kickoff, or after a change of possession. For example, B33 is returning a kickoff or interception when he tries to pass the ball backward to a teammate, but the pass goes forward, and, after releasing the pass, A77 takes two steps and knocks B33 to the ground. Roughing the passer? Can you clarify?