(NCAA) CFO INTERPRETATION: Forward Progress for Ball Carrier Out Of Bounds

[linejudge]

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INTERPRETATION

FORWARD PROGRESS FOR BALL CARRIER OUT OF BOUNDS
Locating the point of forward progress is a very important matter, especially when the action is near the line to gain. Rule 4-2-4-d (FR-57) addresses this when the ball is declared out of bounds. The rule (FR-57) reads:

 The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between the goal lines is the point of forward progress. (Exception: When a ball carrier is airborne as he crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline.

INTERPRETATION: For purposes of the Exception to 4-2-4-d, a ball carrier who strides across the sideline before first touching out of bounds is considered to be an airborne player.

EXAMPLE 1. Ball carrier A22 sweeps around left end and heads toward the sideline. As his right foot touches the sideline at the A-45 he is holding the ball so that its most forward point is at the A-46.
RULING: The ball is out of bounds when A22 touches the sideline, so the A-46 is the point of forward progress. It is the location of the ball when declared dead that determines forward progress in this play. Team A’s ball at the A-46. (4-2-4-d)

EXAMPLE 2. Ball carrier A22 sweeps around left end and heads toward the sideline. As his right foot touches the sideline at the A-45 he has the ball tucked into his body so that its most forward point is at the A-45.
RULING: Again it is the location of the ball when declared dead that is the key to the ruling. The ball is out of bounds when A22 touches the sideline, so this time the A-45 is the point of forward progress. Team A’s ball at the A-45. (4-2-4-d)

EXAMPLE 3. Ball carrier A22 sweeps around left end and heads toward the sideline. As his right foot touches the sideline at the A-45 he is turned so that the most forward point of the ball is at the A-44.
RULING: Once more it is the location of the ball when declared dead that is the key. The ball is out of bounds when A22 touches the sideline, so this time the A-44 is the point of forward progress. Team A’s ball at the A-44. (4-2-4-d)

EXAMPLE 4. Ball carrier A22 sweeps around left end and heads toward the sideline. His right foot touches the ground inbounds very close to the sideline at the A-30. As he continues to run his stride is such that his left foot then lands out of bounds at the A-32. The ball crosses the sideline at the A-31, and A22 holds the ball such that when his left foot touches the ground the most forward point of the ball is at the A-33.
RULING: In this play the Exception to Rule 4-2-4-d is in effect. By interpretation A22 is airborne as he crosses the sideline because he crosses it in stride. The crossing point is at the A-31, so Team A will put the ball in play at the A-31. (4-2-4-d-Exception)

Rogers Redding
Secretary-Rules Editor
NCAA Football Rules Committee

[Locker Room]

Is not the sideline and the area outside the sideline both considered out of bounds?

[zebra99]

Perfect.  Looks like RR has been watching this board.   

Probably not but we have the definitive answer now!

[El Macman]

Perfect.  Looks like RR has been watching this board.   

Probably not but we have the definitive answer now!

Really? Definitive today. Wait 'til tomorrow.
Is this a change since he published the 2011 NCAA National Training Video? In Chapter 13, Play 2, he clearly, and I mean CLEARLY - states that when the BC runs OB, progress is to the most forward point of the ball when he touches OB - NOT AT THE CROSSING POINT. He says that.

How does he reconcile that?

[zebra99]

El. -  thanks sometimes change and that's the coordinator's choice.  Mine is not to wonder why, mine is but to do or die.

[Andrew McCarthy]

Is not the sideline and the area outside the sideline both considered out of bounds?

It's almost like he wants us to draw a distinction between being out of bounds and being really out of bounds.  I wonder if he realizes that the sideline in the bench area is 6 feet wide.

To me this interpretation needs about 20 different play situations on video that illustrate what he's trying to say.  Then maybe we would really see the value of the CFO site.

[Diablo]

  I wonder if he realizes that the sideline in the bench area is 6 feet wide.

You are drawing attention to the fact that, inside the 25-yardlines, the white-painted sideline is 4" wide. But between the 25-yardlines, the white paint is 72" wide.  That's half the length of the field of play.

May have to change the paint between the 25s.

[ALRef]

Really? Definitive today. Wait 'til tomorrow.
Is this a change since he published the 2011 NCAA National Training Video? In Chapter 13, Play 2, he clearly, and I mean CLEARLY - states that when the BC runs OB, progress is to the most forward point of the ball when he touches OB - NOT AT THE CROSSING POINT. He says that.

How does he reconcile that?

My understanding is that this play was heavily discussed at the coordinators' meeting (with RR) and they arrived at the interpretation as reflected. Unfortunately the video had already been completed.

[zebra99]

For some reason, I don't have angst over "sideline".  Isn't he really talking about the edge of the sideline whether it's four inches wide or six feet wide for striding purposes?

[Andrew McCarthy]

For some reason, I don't have angst over "sideline".  Isn't he really talking about the edge of the sideline whether it's four inches wide or six feet wide for striding purposes?

The first 3 plays have a player running then going out of bounds when their foot "touches the sideline".  The last play has a player running then going out of bounds when his foot "lands out of bounds".  The rulebook states the sideline can be any width and that the entire sideline is out of bounds.  I don't see any difference between those 4 plays based on what is written.

You think he means in the first 3 plays the player has part of his foot in the field of play and that's the difference?

[zebra99]

The first 3 plays have a player running then going out of bounds when their foot "touches the sideline".  The last play has a player running then going out of bounds when his foot "lands out of bounds".  The rulebook states the sideline can be any width and that the entire sideline is out of bounds.  I don't see any difference between those 4 plays based on what is written.

You think he means in the first 3 plays the player has part of his foot in the field of play and that's the difference?

Yes.

[ALRef]

Don't get hung up on the details of the wording. Bottom line, just spot the ball where it crosses the sideline and you'll be okay.

[Andrew McCarthy]

Yes.

Could very well be.  I hope he offers further clarification.

[Mike L]

I just don't see this as all that difficult to understand & it seems quite a few are attempting to make it way more complicated than it is (especially the "width of sideline paint" post!! Come on. Really?).
Maybe it's a problem with grasping the idea RR considers going airborne could possibly include action in which the runner maintains his feet. If in #4 above the runner left his feet and landed face first 2 yards ahead, I'm sure no-one here would have a problem agreeing with his answer. And yet, because he maintained his feet there is mass confusion. Why? Is it because you don't consider a 2 yd "stride" going airborne? Try making a 2 yd step sometime.

[Grant - AR]

Don't get hung up on the details of the wording. Bottom line, just spot the ball where it crosses the sideline and you'll be okay.

 

[Andrew McCarthy]

I just don't see this as all that difficult to understand & it seems quite a few are attempting to make it way more complicated than it is (especially the "width of sideline paint" post!! Come on. Really?).
Maybe it's a problem with grasping the idea RR considers going airborne could possibly include action in which the runner maintains his feet. If in #4 above the runner left his feet and landed face first 2 yards ahead, I'm sure no-one here would have a problem agreeing with his answer. And yet, because he maintained his feet there is mass confusion. Why? Is it because you don't consider a 2 yd "stride" going airborne? Try making a 2 yd step sometime.

I think the issue is that we are being told that a player who is running on 3 out of 4 examples is apparently not considered to be airborne.  But in another he is.  That can have a significant difference in ruling- see the FIU first down play that was posted.  Probably a 2+ yard difference in spotting on a play at the LTG.

You're right- 99.9% of the time it's not complicated at all and doesn't make a difference.  But the last thing we want is an official (or replay official) not knowing what the rule is supposed to be in those critical situations.

[cmathews]

in each play the forward point of the ball is where it crossed the oob line.  The only difference is that in 3 plays the player touches oob almost at the same time as the ball crossing the line, in the 4th the foot touches "some time" after the ball crosses the line....like ALRef said, spot it where it crosses and you will be fine....

[El Macman]

in each play the forward point of the ball is where it crossed the oob line.  The only difference is that in 3 plays the player touches oob almost at the same time as the ball crossing the line, in the 4th the foot touches "some time" after the ball crosses the line....like ALRef said, spot it where it crosses and you will be fine....

No, no, no. In the first three, no mention is made as to the location of the ball with respect to the sideline. That has always been irrelevant, and remains so for a player that becomes OB by touching the sideline. But, if he strides across the sideline, touching down OB with his entire foot OB (play 4), then he is "airborne." By RR's new interps, when an airborne BC carries the ball across the sideline, then forward progress is where the ball crossed the sideline.

[El Macman]

Did research back to 1972. The thing I discovered is that the rules regarding progress have changed quite a few times over the years - far more times than I remember or expected to find.

In 1985:
4-2-4-c If the ball is on or above the out of bounds territory when the runner is ruled out of bounds, the dead-ball spot is directly under the foremost part of the ball.

That language was not there in 1984, then disappeared in 1986. So, we've all had the correct understanding - depending on the year in question! And the language has changed numerous more times since then, and is ongoing today. Obviously, even the rulesmakers have struggled with this over the years. So, we just need to understand what RR and the Committee want for 2011.

[Kalle]

No, no, no. In the first three, no mention is made as to the location of the ball with respect to the sideline.

Yes, the first three are poorly written, as they assume that the ball carrier has the ball in his right hand, thus the ball never crosses the sideline before it is declared dead.

[NVFOA_Ump]

But now we have to make a new judgment call on "striding" vs "running"?  If his front foot touches down while his back foot is still in contact with the ground it's "running" but if his front foot touches down after his back foot has left the ground he's "striding" therefore it's now defined that he's "airborne" for the purpose of the OB call?

So when the ball is over OB territory while the ball carrier is tight roping down the sideline, in addition to keeping track of where the ball is and if his feet are inbounds, we need to also determine if both feet were off the ground just before the instant his lead foot touches OB?  If on the ground, spot is the most forward part of the ball, of not on the ground, we put the ball back where it was when the ball carrier first crossed the sideline?

[El Macman]

Yes, the first three are poorly written, as they assume that the ball carrier has the ball in his right hand, thus the ball never crosses the sideline before it is declared dead.

I don't think so, Kalle. Since it is irrelevant where the ball is related to the sideline in those 3 cases, the statements are completely correct. The ball could be in either hand; over the field of play; or over ground outside the sideline. It doesn't matter, as long as the BC steps on the sideline. Progress is to the forward most point of the ball when he steps on the sideline.

If he strides over the sideline so his foot is completely OB, AND the ball crosses the sideline, then it does matter - progress is to the point where it crosses the sideline (play 4).

[Kalle]

Ah, right, now I think I got it (language problem).

[Andrew McCarthy]

If the distinction between rulings is based on a foot being "partially in/partially out" vs. "all the way out" then he should have come right out and said that.  Otherwise this is a poorly worded interpretation.