New 10 sec. runoff rule question

[zebra99]

40 secs. left in the game.  A's ball at the one yard line going in on the right hash mark, 4th and goal.  Clock running, A has no TOs left.  A is ahead by one point, sets up for a FG and false starts.

B does not want to accept the 5 yard penalty because it gives A a better angle and does not want a 10 sec. runoff so they decline everything.

What do we do with the game clock and what is the rule support for the decision?

[TXMike]

The "right" thing is to reset play clock to 25 but start game clock on the snap.  I'm going with 3-4-3 and 3-4-4-c

[Hursk]

In the CFO description of the situation, Play 4 observes "If Team B allows the 10 second subtraction along with the 5 yard penalty, the came cloack starts on the referee's signal.  Note that if Team B declines the yardage penalty there is no 10 second subtraction and the game clock starts on the snap"

I think this supports TxMike's response.

[zebra99]

The "right" thing is to reset play clock to 25 but start game clock on the snap.  I'm going with 3-4-3 and 3-4-4-c

I agree with both responses as it seems like the right thing to do.  My hesitation is that 3-4-4-c begins with "After enforcement of the penalty...."

In my play there was no "enforcement" of the penalty.    ?

So before this year and the addition of 3-4-4-c, would we have allowed B to decline A's FST AND started it on the snap?  I think we did, but I don't recall ever having B decline the foul.

[TXMike]

Don't want to get technical here but I think that para starts with "After the penalty is administered".   To me , penalty administration  (and even penalty "enforcement") includes the whole process of giving options, receiving a choice, and then marking off (or not) the penalty.  SO even is the penalty is declined, that declination is part of penalty "administration"

[Hawkeye]

Don't want to get technical here but I think that para starts with "After the penalty is administered".   To me , penalty administration  (and even penalty "enforcement") includes the whole process of giving options, receiving a choice, and then marking off (or not) the penalty.  SO even is the penalty is declined, that declination is part of penalty "administration"

I agree, the way I'm thinking of the administration of fouls that qualify for 10 second runoff is:

if we subtract 10 seconds from the game clock, then the offended team is telling us that the team who fouled would gain advantage by a stopped clock, therefore we start on the ready

if we do not subtract 10 seconds from the game clock, then the offended team is telling us that the team who fouled would gain advantage by a running clock, therefore we start on the snap

[zebra99]

Don't want to get technical here but I think that para starts with "After the penalty is administered".   To me , penalty administration  (and even penalty "enforcement") includes the whole process of giving options, receiving a choice, and then marking off (or not) the penalty.  SO even is the penalty is declined, that declination is part of penalty "administration"

WOW!  My trust is completely shot.  "After enforcement of the penalty..." is an exact quote from RR's posted CFO note, but it was apparently changed to "After the administration" in the rule book.

I wonder how many other little, but perhaps significant things got changed between his posted notes and the book! 

[Hawkeye]

WOW!  My trust is completely shot.  "After enforcement of the penalty..." is an exact quote from RR's posted CFO note, but it was apparently changed to "After the administration" in the rule book.

I wonder how many other little, but perhaps significant things got changed between his posted notes and the book! 

See my post in the Hidden Changes thread for at least one other:

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8021.msg77257#msg77257

[Diablo]

To me , penalty administration  (and even penalty "enforcement") includes the whole process of giving options, receiving a choice, and then marking off (or not) the penalty.  SO even is the penalty is declined, that declination is part of penalty "administration"

I see "administration" (in 3-4-4-c) as not merely giving options and receiving a choice, rather actually being equivalent to "enforcement".

Nevertheless,, the second sentence in 3-4-4-c is not prefaced by "After the penalty is administered".  Hence, I think starting the game clock is determined only by whether the offended team takes (on the RFP) or declines (on the snap) the 10-second subtraction.