Big 10 May Not Be on the Same Page re UNS

[TXMike]

Assuming this quote is accurate, it appears they may be handling this different than other conferences:

http://thegazette.com/2011/07/28/big-ten-officiating-director-expect-controversy-on-touchdown-penalties/

"If it fits the criteria, drawing attention to himself, taunting his opponent, this gets it into an area. But certainly I think there will be some controversy especially the first time we take away a scoring play. If he’s in the end zone, but if he dives in from the 2 or the 1, we’re in the proper position, we know it happened in the middle of the field, in the field of play, we will throw the flag and take away that. It will be controversial.”

[Hawkeye]

I don't know how you think this is different, all he is saying is that if they are in position and know the foul occurred in the field of play, then they'll throw the flag and assess a live ball foul and take the TD away.  This is what we were told as well.  What isn't said is that if we're not sure, then err on the side of dead ball, but that philosophy is the same for personal fouls near the end of a play.

Hopefully it won't be controversial the first time it happens.  We take away touchdowns all the time, they will eventually get over the fact that a UNS will just be another one of those times.

[TXMike]

"Parry said if a player who is not being closely pursued starts diving or summersaulting into the end zone from the field of play and lands across the goal line, the penalty would still be considered a dead-ball foul, since the act was "completed in the end zone."

This is the same philosophy I have heard going from guys who have attended the various college preseason clinics and meetings.

[Atlanta Blue]

So it seems to be a question of WHERE the foul occurs: is the spot from where he leaps, or from where he lands?

[Grant - AR]

"Parry said if a player who is not being closely pursued starts diving or summersaulting into the end zone from the field of play and lands across the goal line, the penalty would still be considered a dead-ball foul, since the act was "completed in the end zone."

Do we penalize from where a foul begins or where it is completed?  If the player turns around at the 10 yard line and taunts all the way to the end zone, it was completed in the end zone.  Do we penalize from there or where the taunt began?  If the player plants his feet at the two yard line and flips into the endzone, the 2 yard line is a firm spot of where the foul began.  Do you guys think it should still be penalized as a dead ball foul?

[El Macman]

Not at all the message one FBS staff got. The foul is where the act began. If his unchallenged leap designed to bring attention to himself begins at the 1, 2, 3-yard line - whatever, that's the spot of the foul. If the play develops in such a way that no one gets a good look at whether the leap (or other act) started before the ball broke the plane of the goal line, then we are to give the benefit of the question to the ball carrier and go with a dead-ball foul. Otherwise, it will be a live-ball foul with Basic Spot enforcement.

[Hawkeye]

Not at all the message one FBS staff got. The foul is where the act began. If his unchallenged leap designed to bring attention to himself begins at the 1, 2, 3-yard line - whatever, that's the spot of the foul. If the play develops in such a way that no one gets a good look at whether the leap (or other act) started before the ball broke the plane of the goal line, then we are to give the benefit of the question to the ball carrier and go with a dead-ball foul. Otherwise, it will be a live-ball foul with Basic Spot enforcement.

That's exactly what we were told at our clinic (FCS). And this is in line with RR's notes on UNS #4 http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7879.0

[Grant - AR]

Not at all the message one FBS staff got. The foul is where the act began. If his unchallenged leap designed to bring attention to himself begins at the 1, 2, 3-yard line - whatever, that's the spot of the foul. If the play develops in such a way that no one gets a good look at whether the leap (or other act) started before the ball broke the plane of the goal line, then we are to givve the benefit of the question to the ball carrier and go with a dead-ball foul. Otherwise, it will be a live-ball foul with Basic Spot enforcement.

I agree 100%.  I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a different message than what some of us had heard.

[ALRef]

I believe the interpretation agreed to by the coordinators is that the foul will be deemed to have occurred where the runner plants his feet to begin the flip or the dive. One thing's for sure - we should all be consistent on this!

[Hawkeye]

I believe the interpretation agreed to by the coordinators is that the foul will be deemed to have occurred where the runner plants his feet to begin the flip or the dive. One thing's for sure - we should all be consistent on this!

That's true, the foul occurs where he plants, but if he's very close to the goalline and extending the ball at the same time, it could be a dead ball foul (plane already broken when he begins the flip/dive).  If we're in position to determine live ball vs. dead ball at the time he starts his flip/dive, then rule accordingly.  If we are not in position to have positive knowledge, we'll err on the side of dead ball.

[Grant - AR]

One thing's for sure - we should all be consistent on this!

Absolutely!

[TXMike]

It will (or should be anyway) a cold day in hades before the 7 man crews do not have 1 - 3 guys on the goal line before the runner gets close so I don't expect to see any "when in questions" with them.  But with our 5 man crews, we will be lucky to have 1 guy there on most long plays where we would see the gymnastics. 

[Hawkeye]

It will (or should be anyway) a cold day in hades before the 7 man crews do not have 1 - 3 guys on the goal line before the runner gets close so I don't expect to see any "when in questions" with them.  But with our 5 man crews, we will be lucky to have 1 guy there on most long plays where we would see the gymnastics. 

Well, the more likely time that the dive into the EZ occurs is on an interception or fumble recovery and score by the defense.  It is possible in that scenario, especially when it occurs behind the NZ, there will be no one on the goalline.

[chymechowder]

It will (or should be anyway) a cold day in hades before the 7 man crews do not have 1 - 3 guys on the goal line before the runner gets close so I don't expect to see any "when in questions" with them.

the nice warm black pants will come in handy then