DETERMINING THE ADJACENT SIDELINE

[TXMike]

How do we determine the "adjacent sideline"?  I know it is which side of the formation the player is on but how do we decide the sides of the fomation?  Is it everything to left of snapper is the left side or everything to the left of the middle lineman (that is not always the same player as we all know)?  I would say, based on the AR's as well as the latest bulletin re motion backs and blocking low, the intent is to make the snapper the midpoint.  This creates some real interesting possibilities in the unusual formations.

[madzebra]

I have a diagram that makes it pretty clear.  Newbie to this board and soon as I can figure out how to attach a PDF I will post.  It is based on the position of the player relative to the blocking zone

[TXMike]

The blocking zone is built around the "middle lineman" so you are saying he is the defining point?  Where did you get that from?

Look at the attached diagram.  Are you saying 15 cannot block low towards the left sideline?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Grant - AR]

I have a diagram that makes it pretty clear.  Newbie to this board and soon as I can figure out how to attach a PDF I will post.  It is based on the position of the player relative to the blocking zone

Madzebra, welcome to the board...glad you are here.  If you reply to this post and look just below the box where you type, you will see "Attachments and other options."  Click on that to open it and you will be able to browse your computer and attach the PDF document there.

[Hawkeye]

How do we determine the "adjacent sideline"?  I know it is which side of the formation the player is on but how do we decide the sides of the fomation?  Is it everything to left of snapper is the left side or everything to the left of the middle lineman (that is not always the same player as we all know)?  I would say, based on the AR's as well as the latest bulletin re motion backs and blocking low, the intent is to make the snapper the midpoint.  This creates some real interesting possibilities in the unusual formations.

Yes, the ball is the determining factor, and yes it could be interesting for unusual formations, but that is the interpretation, as I read it.  Granted, "the player's outside" is a pretty strange way to phrase the interpretation, I don't know why he just didn't say that "the adjacent sideline is the left sideline if the player is positioned to the left of the ball and the right sideline if the player is positioned to the right of the ball".  Conservation of words and being concise in this case make it harder to glean the exact meaning, but I think the AR's make it clear what the intention of the "the player's outside" means.

In your diagram, I would say that A22's and A15's adjacent sideline is the left sideline, A88's adjacent sideline is the right sideline, A85(assuming normal splits there), A77, A63, A66, A78, A44, and A42 are unrestricted.  I'm really not sure what to do with A55, but I'll call the right sideline his adjacent sideline (at least to start a discussion).

[Hondo]

Major changes made after further study

I've got A66 as midddle lineman and A55 as center

If A66 is the middle lineman, then 85,77,63,66,78 are lineman within 7 yards from middle lineman so the are NOT restricted.
22 & 15 are backs outside the tackle box (which is based on the center) so the are restricted and their adjacent sideline to me is to their left

A55 is the center, yet he is more than 7 yards from middle lineman so he is restricted, his sideline is to his right.
44 and 42 are backs completely inside the tackle box so they are unrestricted
I've got 88 more than 7 yards from middle lineman so he is restricted and his adjacent sideline is to the right.

Comments?? I know completely different than last night, but studying will do this to a person.

[TXMike]

The issue/question is....Which sideline is 15's "adjacent"?  Since he is restrictd, we need to know that answer

[El Macman]

Since, as a back, his benchmark is the tackle box, which is centered on the snapper, he would most likely be outside the TB, and to the left of the TB. Thus, by RR's bulletin, his "outside" would be the side opposite of him from the TB, and that would be to the left. So, the left sideline is his adjacent sideline.
This would qualify as one of those dream formations that, from what I have seen, RR does not like to consider.

[JasonTX]

Since, as a back, his benchmark is the tackle box, which is centered on the snapper, he would most likely be outside the TB, and to the left of the TB. Thus, by RR's bulletin, his "outside" would be the side opposite of him from the TB, and that would be to the left. So, the left sideline is his adjacent sideline.
This would qualify as one of those dream formations that, from what I have seen, RR does not like to consider.

I'm not sure it would be a total dream situation.  Teams that run a swinging gate would have to be looked at closely if they line up in something similar to this.

[blindref757]

Do any college teams run the gate?  Can't recall ever seeing it on TV?  Maybe that's why RR doesn't consider it.

[bossman72]

Do any college teams run the gate?  Can't recall ever seeing it on TV?  Maybe that's why RR doesn't consider it.

Usually you only see that on FG's, and the numbering exception/formation rule basically outlaws it since once you cover/uncover an eligible using the exception, it's a foul.

[TXMike]

Routinely used by Texas HS's under NCAA rules on extra point attempts (which are FG attempts)

[El Macman]

Usually you only see that on FG's, and the numbering exception/formation rule basically outlaws it since once you cover/uncover an eligible using the exception, it's a foul.

Well, not a foul until the snap (and if they are still in a SKF). But, yeah, once a player is tagged as an 'exception,' he has effectively changed his jersey to be a number 50-79, and he can't change it back, no matter how much shifting they do, if the ball is subsequently snapped from a SKF. If they do snap from a SKF, then exceptions must be a) on the line, and b) be between the ends. If not, there's your foul (at the snap).

But, if they change the formation and snap NOT from a SKF, then standard numbering rules apply (and there are no 'exceptions').

[mccormicw]

If a coach thinks he somehow gets a blocking advantage by having non-standard formation (swinging gate, etc), won't he develop a play that puts that advantage to use?  I am not a coach (and never have been) so I couldn't give you a good example but I assume one exists (especially after looking at TXMike's diagram).

Another situation:

A only has 10 players on the field.  6 lineman with an extra wide split between the middle two lineman?  Which one is the middle lineman for blocking restrictions? 

[Diablo]

[quote author=mccormicw link=topic=8169.msg77962#msg77962 date=1312559829
A only has 10 players on the field.  6 lineman with an extra wide split between the middle two lineman?  Which one is the middle lineman for blocking restrictions?
[/quote]

Dear Dr. Redding,
As you know, the eligibility of a lineman to block below the waist
towards the sideline opposite his position at the snap, i.e.
crackback block, is dictated by the lineman's location relative to
Team A's middle lineman.  What if Team A has 6 lineman along with 4
backs; hence, only 10 players?  With an even number of lineman, there
is no middle lineman.

Dear Diablo,
For your question, common sense would have to apply, and the seven yards should be measured from the middle of the line, that is, from between the third and fourth linemen.  This happens seldom enough that it is probably not worth trying to write a rule statement.  For the sake of safety, if there is a question about whether he may block low, then he may not block low.

[Hawkeye]

Dear Diablo,
For your question, common sense would have to apply, and the seven yards should be measured from the middle of the line, that is, from between the third and fourth linemen.  This happens seldom enough that it is probably not worth trying to write a rule statement.  For the sake of safety, if there is a question about whether he may block low, then he may not block low.

Hey, that's the median  of the linemen!!  I guess I can use that example in my Stats class this year.

[El Macman]

This happens seldom enough that it is probably not worth trying to write a rule statement.

In only slightly varying words, that's the same message he sends with so many of his rulings.

[mccormicw]

Thanks Diablo.  Answers the mail for me.

[MJT]

How do we determine the "adjacent sideline"?  I know it is which side of the formation the player is on but how do we decide the sides of the fomation?  Is it everything to left of snapper is the left side or everything to the left of the middle lineman (that is not always the same player as we all know)?  I would say, based on the AR's as well as the latest bulletin re motion backs and blocking low, the intent is to make the snapper the midpoint.  This creates some real interesting possibilities in the unusual formations.

If you are referring to a man in motion, the CFO video "2011 Training Video 1 - Blocking Below the Waist" makes it very clear. The ball is the factor that determines his adjacent sideline. They have a great clip showing a man in motion and freeze it just before he is to the ball, and they say "the motion man is not yet to the football, therefor his adjacent sideline is the one to his back." They then put it into motion again and after he gets past the football they freeze it again and say "once he gets to the football, his adjacent sideline flips." That makes it really easy.

[TXMike]

It is clear the adjacent sidelie for motion backs is based on the ball.  One would assume the same woould be true for linemen but did you see the diagram I posted?  Basing it on the ball creates some interesting scenarios when Team A is in an unbalanaced formation

[MJT]

Mike, here is my take on it. With what RR said about if you have only 4 linemen with only 10 players that you would go with the midpoint of the lineman, using your diagram, I am going to go with midpoint of #55 and #77 as they are the outside restricted lineman. That puts the midpoint between #55 and #78, but much closer to #78, and I think only leaves #'s 63, 66, and 78 within 7 yards from that midpoint.

What are your thoughts on that?

[TXMike]

I had never thought of it in that way but i think I can see the logic.   The main issue I have with doing it this way though is how difficult it will be to "fix" the mid point if we are fixing it in "space" as opposed to on a specific player.  Not that big a deal when the space is nothing more than the normal gap between players but in a spread like this it will be impossible for everyone to have the same midpoint in their mind.   As I recall, the "middle lineman" was put back in to help define the blocking zone as a result of potential issues seen when the language was changed to define it based on the snapper.  Therefore, it probably makes sense to use the "middle lineman" as the defining point in the blocking below the waist rule also. 

[MJT]

I had never thought of it in that way but i think I can see the logic.   The main issue I have with doing it this way though is how difficult it will be to "fix" the mid point if we are fixing it in "space" as opposed to on a specific player.  Not that big a deal when the space is nothing more than the normal gap between players but in a spread like this it will be impossible for everyone to have the same midpoint in their mind.   As I recall, the "middle lineman" was put back in to help define the blocking zone as a result of potential issues seen when the language was changed to define it based on the snapper.  Therefore, it probably makes sense to use the "middle lineman" as the defining point in the blocking below the waist rule also.

One other thing Mike, RR has made it clear that "when in doubt, he's out" so I think if they are going to do some weird formation, they have to deal with the consequences of not many in the box and better keep their blocks high. It would be nice also if they would communicate a strange formation line the swinging gate to the R and U before the game, so the crew could discuss it, then get back to the team so they know how it will be handled if they go to that formation.

[TXMike]

These diagrams highlight the issue regarding how to determine adj sideline.  Base it on the ball or on the middle lineman?



[attachment deleted by admin]

[El Macman]

Determining the adjacent sideline is related to the SNAPPER. That is by RR's interpretations in the document published between 6/17 & 6/23, entitled, "INTERPRETATION - Blocking Below the Waist: Adjacent Sideline." The excerpts below clearly reference the snapper as being the landmark for determining adjacent sideline.
Why didn't RR state: A player's adjacent sideline is the sideline opposite of him from the the snapper when the ball is snapped? I don't know. I wish he had. But the excerpted interpretations and examples below make it very clear.
---------------------
Player Stationary At The Snap
The adjacent sideline is the sideline to the player’s outside. This is the case no matter where the ball is located when it is snapped.

EXAMPLE 2 The ball is at the left hash mark. Back A33 is split far to the right. After all eleven Team A players have been set for at least one second A33 starts in motion to his left. When the ball is snapped he is just behind the right tackle and still moving laterally to the left.
RULING: The adjacent sideline for A33 is the right sideline, since he started from that side and is still to the right of the snapper when the ball is snapped. Thus he may legally block below the waist north-and-south or toward his right sideline.

EXAMPLE 3 The ball is at the left hash mark. Back A33 is split far to the right. After all eleven Team A players have been set for at least one second A33 starts in motion to his left. He continues beyond the snapper, and when the ball is snapped he is just behind the left guard and is “running in place” rather than moving laterally.
RULING: The adjacent sideline for A33 is the left sideline; that is now the sideline to his outside since his motion has taken him behind the snapper and to the opposite side of the formation from which he started. Thus he may legally block below the waist north-and-south or toward his left sideline.

Player in Motion Directly Behind the Snapper
When a back in motion is almost directly behind the snapper when the ball is snapped, it may be difficult to determine which side of the formation he is on to establish his adjacent sideline. In this case, the adjacent sideline is interpreted to be the sideline toward which he is moving. Thus he will be able to block below the waist legally north-and-south or toward the sideline in front of him.
EXAMPLE 4 Back A44 lines up to the left of the formation, either inside or outside the tackle box. He starts in motion laterally to his right. At the snap he appears to be directly behind the snapper as he continues moving laterally to the right.
RULING: The adjacent sideline for A44 is the sideline to the right. Thus he may legally block below the waist north-and-south or toward the sideline to the right of the formation.