Author Topic: Hash Mark  (Read 16364 times)

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Offline bossman72

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Hash Mark
« on: March 20, 2012, 05:16:39 PM »
2 questions:

1) Play: Ball spotted on left hash.  A22 carries the ball and is tackled out of bounds on the right sideline.  Holding was called in the middle of the field.  After enforcement, where is the ball spotted laterally on the field?  Rule reference?

2) I'd like to compile a list of when the offense gets to choose its hash mark to run a play.  Please let me know if I omitted any:

--Try
--First possession in OT
--Any Touchback
--Snap after missed FG if spotted at the 20
--Free kick

Offline Welpe

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Hash Mark
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 05:33:03 PM »
For 1 it depends upon where the foul is enforced. If from end of the related run, then it is where the run ended. If from the spot of the foul then it would be from that spot.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 05:51:20 PM »
2) I'd like to compile a list of when the offense gets to choose its hash mark to run a play.  Please let me know if I omitted any:

--Try
--First possession in OT
--Any Touchback
--Snap after missed FG if spotted at the 20
--Free kick

For those reading this that work FED also, for HS rules, add fair catch, but that doesn't apply to NCAA.

And a free kick after a safety is a different type of free kick that would also apply to all rule sets.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 05:54:26 PM »
I agree, for (1) it depends.

Play: A's ball 2nd and 10 on the A-30 on the left hash.  QB A12 hands off to A34 who runs to the right.  A34 is forced out of bounds at the A-36 on the right sideline.  During A34's run, A75 holds in the middle of the field on the (1) A-28; (2) A-34; and (3) A-38.

Ruling: (1) A's ball 2nd and 20 on the A-20 left hash; (2) A's ball 2nd and 16 on the A-24 middle of the field; and (3) A's ball 2nd and 14 on the A-26 right hash.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 05:56:50 PM by Hawkeye »

Diablo

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 07:37:41 PM »
2) I'd like to compile a list of when the offense gets to choose its hash mark to run a play.  Please let me know if I omitted any:

--Try
--First possession in OT
--Any Touchback
--Snap after missed FG if spotted at the 20
--Free kick

On the same aspect of the game ...

It's my understanding, if Team A fouls during a Try, they have to snap the ball precisely where the penalty leaves it.  However, if B fouls on a Try down, Team A can spot the ball for re-Try anywhere along the yardline where the penalty leaves the ball.

Does Team A have the option to move the ball laterally on a re-free kick following penalty enforcement for a Team B foul during the initial free kick.


El Macman

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 08:41:23 PM »
On the same aspect of the game ...

It's my understanding, if Team A fouls during a Try, they have to snap the ball precisely where the penalty leaves it.  However, if B fouls on a Try down, Team A can spot the ball for re-Try anywhere along the yardline where the penalty leaves the ball.

Does Team A have the option to move the ball laterally on a re-free kick following penalty enforcement for a Team B foul during the initial free kick.

The applicable rule requires Team A to kick the ball from a point on A's restraining line and on/between the hash marks. No rule prohibits Team A from kicking from a different point on a re-kick, regardless of the reason for the re-kick. Once the ball is ready for play, initial down or repeat, Team A simply has 25-seconds to kick the ball from someplace on the line and on/between the hash marks.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 03:42:13 PM »
On the same aspect of the game ...

It's my understanding, if Team A fouls during a Try, they have to snap the ball precisely where the penalty leaves it.  However, if B fouls on a Try down, Team A can spot the ball for re-Try anywhere along the yardline where the penalty leaves the ball.

Does Team A have the option to move the ball laterally on a re-free kick following penalty enforcement for a Team B foul during the initial free kick.



They would not have the option if they replayed the down for a Team B foul after a touchback, correct?

El Macman

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 04:15:21 PM »
They would not have the option if they replayed the down for a Team B foul after a touchback, correct?

No comprehendo.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 06:54:46 AM »
8.6.2 allows A to select the ball spot between the hashmarks following a TB and before the RFP.  If there is an enforced penalty against B that includes a replay the down component, A is repeating 1st down following a TB, and should be allowed to select the spot between the hashmarks.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 11:37:09 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Diablo

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2012, 03:22:57 PM »
They would not have the option if they replayed the down for a Team B foul after a touchback, correct?

Honestly, I don't rightly know. 
Initially, I thought the option to move the succeeding spot after penalty enforcement for a Team B foul only applied during a Try.  Afterall, the option appears only in 8-3-3 - Try rules.  It does not appear in rules governing TB or free kicks.

Offline jg-me

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 04:17:54 PM »
Once the ball is snapped following a touchback, the option to select a spot between the hash marks is a non-issue. We have started a series of downs and the enforcement and resulting succeeding spot are governed by the same rules as any other scrimmage play. Even though we may be repeating a down, it will be a down beginning with a snap following a scrimmage play, not the down immediately following the TB.
  As to free kicks, since there is no rule to the contrary, the kicking team can always free kick from any spot between the hashes and along their restraining line.

mattlipsey

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 10:39:21 PM »
For 1 it depends upon where the foul is enforced. If from end of the related run, then it is where the run ended. If from the spot of the foul then it would be from that spot.

Just throwing it out there Im an Umpire.  I would have used the right hash mark because thats the side where the play ended since it was a live ball foul and the penalty was enforced at the spot of the foul. I make things easier on everyone by using the hash mark where the play ended call it OCD but it works for me lol

El Macman

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 07:10:06 AM »
Just throwing it out there Im an Umpire.  I would have used the right hash mark because thats the side where the play ended since it was a live ball foul and the penalty was enforced at the spot of the foul. I make things easier on everyone by using the hash mark where the play ended call it OCD but it works for me lol

By rule, the penalty is enforced from the specified enforcement spot. That spot is not only the yard line, but also the lateral location between the sidelines. After the distance penalty, if the ball is in a side zone, then it is transferred to the nearest hash mark.

Example 1:
1/10, 50, ball in the center of the field. A11 takes the snap and runs out of bounds at the B-40, at the right sideline. A77 held at the A-48, at the numbers in the right side zone. By rule, the penalty is enforced from the Previous Spot. The Umpire takes a ball, goes to the Previous Spot (50, in the middle of the field) and moves to the A-40, in the middle of the field, for 1/20, A-40.

Example 2:
1/10, 50, ball in the center of the field. A11 takes the snap and runs off tackle to the left, and is tackled at the B-40, near the left hash mark. A77 held at the B-48, half-way between the middle of the field and the the left hash mark. By rule, the penalty is enforced from the Spot Of The Foul. The Umpire takes a ball, goes to the Spot Of The Foul (B-48, half-way between the middle of the field and the left hash mark) and moves to the A-40, half-way between the middle of the field and the left hash mark, for 1/18, A-42.

Example 3:
1/10, 50, ball in the center of the field. A11 takes the snap, runs wide to the right, then, at the B-45, cuts back across the field and runs out of bounds at the B-35, at the left sideline. A77 held at the B-45, at the numbers in the right side zone. By rule, the penalty is enforced from the Spot Of The Foul. The Umpire takes a ball and goes the Spot Of The Foul (B-45, at the numbers in the right side zone) and moves to the A-45, at the numbers in the right side zone. After enforcement of the penalty, the ball is in a side zone, so the Umpire transfers the ball to the nearest (right) hash mark, for A, 1/15, A-45.

Calm down. Calm down. I'm telling you the technical procedure. As long as you end up in the correct spot, it doesn't really matter where the enforcement begins. If the enforcement spot is in a side zone, it is perfectly acceptable for the U to start at the nearest hash mark. Just end up at the correct spot. If you understand the proper technical procedure, and at least follow that procedure in your mind, then you'll be able to end up in the right spot. Personally, I'd just as soon have the U do the math from wherever he is standing, and just move straight to the spot where the penalty will leave the ball. But, most Us, quite rightly, prefer to go to the enforcement spot (or the proper hash mark), verify the distance with the H with 1, 2, or 3 fingers (each finger represents 5 yards), then move the proper distance.

But, it definitely ain't just always the hash mark to the side where the play ended.

Offline mccormicw

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 10:54:50 AM »
If the line judge throws a flag for a hold in the middle of the field, he is going to make sure he has his flag on the correct yardline but probably won't throw his flag all the way to the middle of the field.  Should he tell the umpire that the penalty was in the middle of field for ball spotting purposes?  ???

El Macman

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Re: Hash Mark
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 01:00:49 PM »
If the line judge throws a flag for a hold in the middle of the field, he is going to make sure he has his flag on the correct yardline but probably won't throw his flag all the way to the middle of the field.  Should he tell the umpire that the penalty was in the middle of field for ball spotting purposes?  ???

Yes. Actually, it would be best for him to relocate his flag after the play, to get it to the correct spot.