Author Topic: TASO Exam Question #24 (Read 29122 times)

JDM · « **on:** July 19, 2012, 08:01:15 AM »

As mentioned, there seem to be several ambiguous questions on the test. To wit:

A85 is standing at the A-33 when the ball is marked ready for play on the second half kickoff. The ball is subsequently kicked into the end zone where a touchback is declared.

A) Flag thrown when ball marked ready; ball placed at the 25 yd line 1 & 10
B) Flag thrown when ball is kicked; ball placed at the 30 yd line 1 & 10
C) Flag is thrown when the ball marked ready; ball will be re-kicked from the 30 yd line
D) A or C is correct

Answer, per test result is B.

Comments?

Welpe · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:13:44 AM »

B was my answer. It is not actually a foul until the ball is kicked even though the restriction starts at the RFP. Team A or B could still call a timeout before the ball becomes live.

It is a foul by Team A during a kick play so tack on is an option and touchbacks during free kicks are now placed at the B-25.

JDM · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:27:35 AM »

As did I, although it's incorrect per UIL rule exception.

It's the best "correct" incorrect answer.

Welpe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:31:19 AM »

What do you believe is incorrect about B? That they didn't specify the B-30? That's implied I'd say.

fencewire · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:47:43 AM »

F) Team A rekick @ A35.

B is an option, but it is not the ONLY option and like mentioned and although implied when there are two 30 yardlines and they should say where.

That is the problem with these tests, they get multiple writers of questions, there is very little oversight or proofing of the questions before they are released, and many times they try to be "tricky" just to see if they can confuse with ambiguous/incomplete questions/answers.

TXMike · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2012, 10:41:55 AM »

Quote from: JDM on July 19, 2012, 08:27:35 AM

As did I, although it's incorrect per UIL rule exception.

It's the best "correct" incorrect answer.

What exception makes this incorrect?

TXMike · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2012, 10:44:28 AM »

Quote from: fencewire on July 19, 2012, 08:47:43 AM

F) Team A rekick @ A35.

B is an option, but it is not the ONLY option and like mentioned and although implied when there are two 30 yardlines and they should say where.

That is the problem with these tests, they get multiple writers of questions, there is very little oversight or proofing of the questions before they are released, and many times they try to be "tricky" just to see if they can confuse with ambiguous/incomplete questions/answers.

Don't overthink it. You were only given certain options to choose from. Nobody said, nor does the question imply, that there are no other options possible. But for the test you were given these options. Pick the one(s) that are correct and quit worrying about what might also have been done in that scenario.

TexDoc · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:28:42 PM »

I asked TXMike about this one. The rule is just written very badly. I see an edit coming next year, I hope.

TXMike · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:39:08 PM »

Is there anyone who does not know the intent of the rule change? Cause if you don't and you try to officiate it this "by the letter of the law", you are going to screw the pooch.

El Macman · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:52:58 PM »

Quote from: TexDoc on July 19, 2012, 12:28:42 PM

I asked TXMike about this one. The rule is just written very badly. I see an edit coming next year, I hope.

The NCAA rule? I don't see anything ambiguous or poor about the NCAA rule language. Or, are you talking about a UIL exception (I don't know about those)?

TXMike · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2012, 01:17:58 PM »

Read very technically you might think the rule made the offense a dead ball foul.

Welpe · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2012, 01:55:17 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on July 19, 2012, 01:17:58 PM

Read very technically you might think the rule made the offense a dead ball foul.

Even still, you'd have to make some assumptions to get to that point. Such as that this fould would be different than how offside or a formation foul during a free kick is treated now.

TXMike · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:17:51 PM »

I agree. When you see it actually in the rulebook and with the penalty language that specifically says it is a live ball foul there should be no doubt.

JDM · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:32:13 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on July 19, 2012, 10:41:55 AM

What exception makes this incorrect?

The ball is still placed at the 20 yard line after a touchback per UIL rule. NCAA is the 25 yard line.

Flag after the ball is kicked, then either:
1. Rekick from the A35 if Team B chooses to assess the penalty from the previous spot.
2. Team B's ball at the B25 if they choose to assess the penalty after a touchback.

After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line. If one player is more than five yards behind the restraining line and any other player kicks the ball, it is a foul.
PENALTY—Illegal Formation. Five yards from the previous spot and re-kick, or five yards from the spot where the dead ball belongs to the receiving team.

Welpe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:35:05 PM »

Quote from: JDM on July 19, 2012, 02:32:13 PM

The ball is still placed at the 20 yard line after a touchback per UIL rule. NCAA is the 25 yard line.

Sorry, that is not true.

Here are the current exceptions:

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/FB_UIL_Exceptions_2012-13.pdf

TXMike · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:46:04 PM »

Quote from: JDM on July 19, 2012, 02:32:13 PM

The ball is still placed at the 20 yard line after a touchback per UIL rule. NCAA is the 25 yard line.

Where did you hear that?

JDM · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Welpe on July 19, 2012, 02:35:05 PM

Sorry, that is not true.

Here are the current exceptions:

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/FB_UIL_Exceptions_2012-13.pdf

I stand corrected. I assumed the UIL took exception to that NCAA rule change. I'll get back to my plate of crow, now.

Flag after the ball is kicked, then either:
1. Rekick from the A35 if Team B chooses to assess the penalty from the previous spot.
2. Team B's ball at the B30 if they choose to assess the penalty after a touchback.

TXMike · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:30:19 PM »

Or B could take the ball at the 25 by declining penalty. Not a likely outcome but possible.

TexDoc · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:32:02 AM »

Quote from: JDM on July 19, 2012, 02:32:13 PM

After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line.

This is the statement that I think has to be cleaned up. Think about it, if any player is more than 5 yds behind their restraining line at the rfp, this says that is a penalty (other than the kicker). Intent or not the rule needs to be cleaned up if that's not the intent. Ambiguous? Yep. How does not officiating it this way prevent what was intended, the running start? A K player could be lined up 15 yds behind their restraining line, get a running start and be within a yard when the ball is kicked. How does the rule, as we are being told to interpret it, prevent that? Change the rule to be very precise in what needs to be a foul please.

TXMike · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:53:50 AM »

The actual language:

b. After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except
the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line. A player
satisfies this rule when one foot is on or beyond the line five yards behind the
restraining line. If one player is more than five yards behind the restraining line and
any other player kicks the ball, it is a foul.

The last line makes it clear it is not a foul until the ball is kicked.

Hondo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2012, 09:55:33 AM »

A unique situation in that is not a foul until the ball is kicked. However Team A has no recourse to "reset or correct" the infraction, other than to call a timeout. This will also eliminate the "normal" kicker taking his long approach and a different player kicking it a different direction at the last minute.

TXMike · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:22:29 AM »

Team A "can make it right" simply by having the offender getting up in the box and stopping before the kicker kicks the ball.

fencewire · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:33:07 AM »

ok.. how do you infer any "set" aspect that from this...

Rule 6-1-2
b. After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line. A player satisfies this rule when one foot is on or beyond the line five yards behind the restraining line. If one player is more than five yards behind the restraining line and any other player kicks the ball, it is a foul.

is there a play situation or a bulletin that has specified the set aspect?

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:38:30 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on July 20, 2012, 08:53:50 AM

The actual language:

b. After the ball has been made ready for play all players on the kicking team except
the kicker must be no more than five yards behind their restraining line. A player
satisfies this rule when one foot is on or beyond the line five yards behind the
restraining line. If one player is more than five yards behind the restraining line and
any other player kicks the ball, it is a foul.

The last line makes it clear it is not a foul until the ball is kicked.

Mike,

I think the point is, if this is a safety rule change (slow down collission speed) we as officials do nothing to prevent that if we allow a kicker to have a running start.

Best regards,

Brad

TXMike · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2012, 01:03:37 PM »

I think we are mixing things up here. The kicker DOES get a running start IF he kicks. I am not saying the player who MAY BE the kicker gets a running start even if someone else kicks. The one who kicks is the only one who gets a running start.

As for the "set" aspect, I assume that was directed at my statement? The intent of the rule is to prevent teh running start. Just because a player is outside that "box" after the RFP, if he gets in the box and stops, he has lost any "running start" advantage and gains no advantage form having been outside the box after the RFP. That being said, his stop will have to be more than the "stop" we require of a lineman who is trying to become a back. This kicking team player needs to prove he has stopped in order to show he is not voiolating the intent of the rule. Common sense.

Author Topic: TASO Exam Question #24 (Read 29122 times)

El Macman