Play Situation

[TxSkyBolt]

A 3/5 at the B-45.  Receiver A80 is not on the LOS (5 in the backfield).  QB A12 hands off to back A30 at the B-49.  A30 runs to the B-44 where he fumbles the ball which is picked up by linebacker B56 at the B-42.  While B56 is running with the ball, B44 blocks A50 low at the A-30.  B56 is stripped of the ball at the A-5 and the ball bounces forward into the pylon.

[Kalle]

The ball belongs to team B at the end of the down. Team B did not foul before last gaining team possession. Thus, team B may elect to decline offsetting fouls and decline team A illegal formation foul. If they do that, though, team A will decline the clip, and the result of the play is a touchback. 1st and 10 for team A at A-20.

Team B may want to take offsetting fouls, 3/5 from B-45.

If you argue that the ball belongs to team A at the end of the down, there is no option, offsetting fouls.

[TXMike]

Why would B want A to have the ball at the B-45 when they could elect to have A have it at their own 20?

(Although I am not sure there is really an option here since exc 1 talks about the team retaining possession which B would not be doing)  The fouls may just simply offset and have a do over

[Kalle]

Why would B want A to have the ball at the B-45 when they could elect to have A have it at their own 20?

3rd down or 1st down, clock issues, dunno. I've seen much weirder decisions from coaches, though

[El Macman]

If you argue that the ball belongs to team A at the end of the down, there is no option, offsetting fouls.

That's my argument. That is consistent with unsucessful field goal attempts, i.e., the ball belongs to B at the end of the down (thus, PSK applies), versus a successful field goal attempt, ie., the ball belongs to A at the end of the down (only previous spot enforcement for B fouls).

[bbeagle]

The rule book is so complex and the situations so immense nothing ever ceases to amaze me.

Last year, I had a coach ask that we call the 'defensive holding' instead of 'defensive pass interference'. He did not want the automatic first down.

Play: Team A 2nd and 5 at the B11. QB passes to his receiver at either the 11 1/2 or the 10 1/2. Receiver is contacted early and tackled. Coach A wants a 'defensive holding' (at the 11 1/2) which will give him 2nd and 1/2 at the 6 1/2 yard line vs. a 'defensive pass interference' (at the 10 1/2) which would give him 1st and goal at the 5 1/4.

(Note the ball was beyond the neutral zone at the 10 1/2 most of the flight of the ball as the QB released the pass sideways/slightly forward right at the line)

The coach is thinking that he wants 5 plays from the 5/6 yard line instead of just 4.

At first, my thinking was, pass interference is better as it gives you a first down, and we weren't questioning the receiver being behind or ahead of the neutral zone until the coach questioned us, and we huddled to discuss where exactly the foul happened.

[Diablo]

(Although I am not sure there is really an option here since exc 1 talks about the team retaining possession which B would not be doing)  The fouls may just simply offset and have a do over

I say 10-1-4, Exception 1 applies.  Technically, "possession" applies to a live ball.  With the touchback, Team A gains control  of a dead ball.   

[TXMike]

If it does then the Team last gaining possession did not have clean hands so itis an auto offset.  Would sure make things a lot easier to handle on the field

[Diablo]

If it does then the Team last gaining possession did not have clean hands so itis an auto offset. 

I'm saying Team B was the last team to have possession of the live ball and they were free from fouls before recovering A's fumble.  Hence, they have the clean hands option.
Am I missing something?

[JasonTX]

I say 10-1-4, Exception 1 applies.  Technically, "possession" applies to a live ball.  With the touchback, Team A gains control  of a dead ball.

If you bulletin finding gurus can look for the situation that deals with roughing the passer.  The situation was:

1st and 10 at the B-40.  The pass is completed to A22 who runs to the B-5 where he fumbles the ball into the pylon.  The passer was roughed.  Ruling?  At one time there was argument as to whether the penalty was previous spot enforcement or penalized from the B-5.  The bulletin ruled that it would be enforced from the B-5 since the change of possession did not occur until after the down. 

For the original play that txskybolt posted team B we would apply the same ruling for his play to determine who was last in possession.  That would be team B.

[Hondo]

2008 Bulletin #1
1.       Quarterback A12 is roughed after he releases a legal forward
pass. Eligible A88 catches the pass and runs to the B-4, where he
fumbles. The ball strikes the goal-line pylon.

RULING: The result of the play is a touchback. The accepted penalty is
enforced at the B-4, which is the end of the run. First and goal for
Team A at the B-2. Note that Team B did not have possession at any
time during the down. (8-6-1-a, 2-31-3, 9-1-2-l)

[bossman72]

Way to dig for that one Hondo!   

[El Macman]

Prior to that bulletin, John Adams had interpreted that Team A's "error" (the fumble) disqualified them from getting the benefit of the 'tack on' provision of the roughing the passer penalty, i.e., possession had changed. RR then added the phrase "during the down" to the change of possession language in the rule, thus making this a 'tack on' penalty.