Hurry Up and Giving B a Chance to Sub

[TXMike]

Is there something special about the last few seconds of the half such that we do not have to give B a chance to sub if A does so?

[Rulesman]

Not that I can think of. You must have a play for us. 

[TXMike]

Am I that predictable?   

This crew put themselves in a heck of a bind by not just following the substitution mechanics guidelines.  It looked like they were about to compound the mess and give A an undeserved chance to score but someone (maybe the L) stepped up and made them re-review.  I sure hope how they eventually handled it is backed up by rule and their coordinator cause it seemed like the right thing to do.

http://youtu.be/OVfgVbHhbJc

[TxSkyBolt]

Also FS for not being set.  Kicker was still moving at the snap.

And much as it pains me to agree with an announcer, in these situations I don't think that rule should apply, it does, but shouldn't IMHO.

[JasonTX]

I could have sworn there was a bulletin play that applies to this play.  In last second situations, as the announcer said it is obvious what is going to happen.  I know we have a bulletin finder guru on here.  Go fetch.

[TXMike]

Back in the early years of the 2000-2010 decade I think there was guidance that when it was an obvious hurry up, there was no requirement to permit a match up.  But bulletins by 2009 had changed that I believe. 

Prev ddiscussion:  http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8553.msg81447#msg81447

You (Jason) are the one that brought a "bulletin" to the table.  Maybe that is a conference-specific deal?

[JasonTX]

Back in the early years of the 2000-2010 decade I think there was guidance that when it was an obvious hurry up, there was no requirement to permit a match up.  But bulletins by 2009 had changed that I believe. 

Prev ddiscussion:  http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8553.msg81447#msg81447

You (Jason) are the one that brought a "bulletin" to the table.  Maybe that is a conference-specific deal?

Ah, I knew it was written somewhere.  That "bulletin" is now squashed as that supervisor is no longer the boss.  Back to square 1.  Allow team B to match up.

[TXMike]

[justaLJ]

Great discussion play.  Regardless of the mechaincs lapse, this should have been shut down for a FST of the second kind, 10-sec runoff applied, and the half ended.

[pedja]

Back in the early years of the 2000-2010 decade I think there was guidance that when it was an obvious hurry up, there was no requirement to permit a match up.

There still is... Check "Late Field Goal Attempt"

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[TXMike]

This bulletin is right on point....if you are in those conferences covered by it.  I do not know if this represents the thinking of coordinators in other conferences, or even more importantly, of RR.  I have seen nothing from RR that tracks on this line of thought

[NVFOA_Ump]

But doesn't simple common sense say that in any case, even if B is responding virtually immediately and clearly hustling the incoming and departing players both on and off without delay as they did here that they must be allowed 2-3 seconds additional response time to A's mass substitution?  IMO there is no way requiring them to be ready exactly the same time as A meets the intent of the rule here.

[Fatman325]

Reportedly RR agrees that a late FG substitution does not create a disadvantage for the defense and a rule change may be forthcoming.

[NVFOA_Ump]

But you cannot ignore the fact that B has to recognize and respond to what A is doing and that response cannot take 0 seconds.  If the requirement that the U stay over the ball during mass substitutions by A on any play were to go away, then I would expect that some firm guideline as to how much delay should be allowed would be clearly stated.  Certainly 0 seconds would not be fair or equitable.

[Diablo]

Reportedly RR agrees that a late FG substitution does not create a disadvantage for the defense and a rule change may be forthcoming.

I can see the reasoning for wanting to have an exception to 3-5-2-c when Team A plans to attempt a FG at the end of a half.  But what if Team A fakes the FG attempt and goes for a TD (more likely at the end of the second quarter).  I think Team B would be at a disadvantage to defend against a scrimmage play.

[Rulesman]

Whatever happened to putting 11 out there and letting them play every down?