RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: JasonTX on December 10, 2010, 08:06:00 PM
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I agree about the fan part but think it should be more for the Texas High School.
My crew is going to Cowboy Stadium to watch the 3A Championship which is being worked by a Tyler crew. Should be a great game. And yeah Mike we will be paying to get in, doubt Jerry World would accept TASO ID to get in.
What do the officials have on their hats? Please don't tell me they are sporting the UIL hats.
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What do the officials have on their hats? Please don't tell me they are sporting the UIL hats.
Looks like they are wearing them.
Game is being webcast on www.foxsportssouthwest.com.
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I agree about the fan part but think it should be more for the Texas High School.
My crew is going to Cowboy Stadium to watch the 3A Championship which is being worked by a Tyler crew. Should be a great game. And yeah Mike we will be paying to get in, doubt Jerry World would accept TASO ID to get in.
Please remind the Tyler crew that just because the good UIL Doctor gives them UIL hats, they don't have to wear them.
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Too late!
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Can't wait to hear the reason why they agreed to wear those things. Did UIL tell them the game would not go forward if they did not? I doubt it. Were they tole they would not get paid if they did not wear them? I can't imagine anyone would care about that.
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Game is being webcast on www.foxsportssouthwest.com.
For those that have Time Warner cable, the Class 3A Div. I Henderson vs. Tyler Chapel Hill game from Friday night will be rebroadcast on The Texas Channel this morning (Saturday Dec. 11) at 10:30 AM CST.
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For those that have Time Warner cable, the Class 3A Div. I Henderson vs. Tyler Chapel Hill game from Friday night will be rebroadcast on The Texas Channel this morning (Saturday Dec. 11) at 10:30 AM CST.
Have not heard of that channel...What is the number?
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What do the officials have on their hats? Please don't tell me they are sporting the UIL hats.
Pitiful and sad.
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Have not heard of that channel...What is the number?
Central Tx, San Antonio, Austin, RGV, Laredo - Channel 888
Dallas -185
Corpus -100
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I thought the Tyler crew was very well prepared, looked the part and overall did an exceptional job last night. Add to the fact that they refused to be intimidated by the good ole boy system of TASO and chose to wear the quite spectacular UIL hats at the request of the Great UIL leader Dr B. Great move and the hats only made you look better. Great job by all. I just hope I can get another chance to wear my UIL hat on week 16 again. We can only hope. Great job Tyler!!!!!
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I thought the Tyler crew was very well prepared, looked the part and overall did an exceptional job last night. Add to the fact that they refused to be intimidated by the good ole boy system of TASO and chose to wear the quite spectacular UIL hats at the request of the Great UIL leader Dr B. Great move and the hats only made you look better. Great job by all. I just hope I can get another chance to wear my UIL hat on week 16 again. We can only hope. Great job Tyler!!!!!
^flag
Yeah, pi1eOn Ornery! We're all pretty sure that you probably found "your" UIL hat in a dumpster, or purchased it somewhere from either some weak-kneed supplier, or you just probably got in the throws of sheer desperation and bought it from the UIL website. But since the UIL apparently sponsors an on-going apple-polishing contest over there on Manor Road, you probably could have satisfied your quota so hastily that you could instantly qualify for a case of those nasty things. Happy wearing, pi1eOn Nostradumbus! You're still definitely in the slim minority! z^
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Too late!
Rick you were there what's the story on the crew wearing the hats? Have these guys been supporting UIL all along (so it was no surprise)?
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.. the Great UIL leader Dr B. The man who threw his underling under the bus. What a great man!
FIFY
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Rick you were there what's the story on the crew wearing the hats? Have these guys been supporting UIL all along (so it was no surprise)?
Don't want to offend by jumping a question to Rick, but if i may: The majority of the crews in the Tyler chapter registered - most did so after the president and varsity secretary indicated their intent to register - not so much on the UIL bandwagon, just decided that's the route they were going to go. It is most of our desire that the chapter remain TASO but we will register. NOT ALL REGISTERED - as attested by Rick and others - but I feel confident in saying the majority did.
Now - as far as the crew in question - it is my opinion that they are the best crew in Texas - the Ref is a former football coach and very respected by coaches in east Texas - one crew member is a D1 college basketball ref - several are former D1 athletes - and all are outstanding officials. This is their second year in a row to be coach requested for state championships. By all accounts, they did an outstanding job officiating the state championship game.
I'm having a hard time coming to grips with criticism by some that they were asked to and accepted the request to wear a hat with a UIL emblem. Doesn't UIL oversee all playoff/state championship games? Most of us don't like Timmons - I get it - but the UIL is much more than Timmons - they rolled out the red carpet for this crew and I'm sure many others who had state games. If given the same opportunity, of which I have never had, I would gladly wear the hat and be honored to not only represent TASO and UIL, but my chapter - which this particular crew did in an exemplary manner.
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I could not have said it any better myself, Cooter!!!!!!
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Don't want to offend by jumping a question to Rick, but if i may: The majority of the crews in the Tyler chapter registered - most did so after the president and varsity secretary indicated their intent to register - not so much on the UIL bandwagon, just decided that's the route they were going to go. It is most of our desire that the chapter remain TASO but we will register. NOT ALL REGISTERED - as attested by Rick and others - but I feel confident in saying the majority did.
Now - as far as the crew in question - it is my opinion that they are the best crew in Texas - the Ref is a former football coach and very respected by coaches in east Texas - one crew member is a D1 college basketball ref - several are former D1 athletes - and all are outstanding officials. This is their second year in a row to be coach requested for state championships. By all accounts, they did an outstanding job officiating the state championship game.
I'm having a hard time coming to grips with criticism by some that they were asked to and accepted the request to wear a hat with a UIL emblem. Doesn't UIL oversee all playoff/state championship games? Most of us don't like Timmons - I get it - but the UIL is much more than Timmons - they rolled out the red carpet for this crew and I'm sure many others who had state games. If given the same opportunity, of which I have never had, I would gladly wear the hat and be honored to not only represent TASO and UIL, but my chapter - which this particular crew did in an exemplary manner.
^flag
While I mildly see your point, it is all too apparent that we are engaged in a legal battle with these people that TASO is footing the bill for. In essence, that's part of what our dues that is being paid for in this legal battle in which TASO is fighting for its very existence. My question is: "Where's your loyalty?" We have a group of people who values the avocation more than TASO itself. And it is all too apparent that they are willing to sell their souls to the devil in order to accomplish their ends. That is why basketball and a number of the other TASO sports have richly drank from the UIL Kool-Aid well, and are busy trying to follow the UIL to the greatness that they have so profusely promised them while being led off the cliff like a herd of lemmings. Prove to us why registering with the UIL is not an act of cowardice and disloyalty to TASO! Way too many officials have overwhelmingly proven by their actions that there is no loyalty to the organization that has defended and represented us for more than 50 years. Without TASO, our voice will be silenced and the UIL will put us somewhere in the back of their bus like the fourth class citizenry that they deem us to be. And once they are in control, they will start treating and paying us like it. The UIL has only one thing in mind: to create something that is going to richly benefit the schools, the superintendents, the administrators, and more importantly themselves. Trust me! They are definitely not in it for the good of the officials! How many TASO hats have you seen the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. or his :!# Dancing Monkey wear in the last couple of years?
Wear those UIL hats with pride, all of you "TASO dues paying members" that choose to do so! But it is eeriely all too reminiscent of those World War II Slavic nations so quickly donning the swastica in order to foster their very own existence! z^
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Arbitor,
I take great offense at being called a Nazi and Coward - I've tried to respect differing opinions and provide for some discourse on subjects - even those I don't particularly like. My first thought is to find you and kick your BUTT, however, I chose to take the high road. You have insulted a lot of great men who know that their true character and honor comes not from a patch or uniform, but the way they chose to live their lives. Dude - you have really got issues.
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Arbitor,
I take great offense at being called a Nazi and Coward - I've tried to respect differing opinions and provide for some discourse on subjects - even those I don't particularly like. My first thought is to find you and kick your BUTT, however, I chose to take the high road. You have insulted a lot of great men who know that their true character and honor comes not from a patch or uniform, but the way they chose to live their lives. Dude - you have really got issues.
^flag
If you'll carefully examine and read my last post, I did not call anyone a Nazi or a coward. Any learned student of history can attest to the facts that I cited. If you take offense, then you do so of your own accord. The insults that I've made are against the very principles who are so feverishly attempting to usurp and replace this great organization of ours. Unlike you, I have never offered to "look someone up and kick their BUTT". While that statement, having the aura of Naziism, may well be the official UIL line on things, it has never been one of TASO's! If you are so inclined to support the UIL takeover, then that is entirely your business. As long as you can supply the needed rationale of why such a takeover is needed and beneficial for high school officials, then I can respect that too. But so far I have not heard any of that from you, or from any UIL-leaning individual.
I have dealt with the UIL first-hand as both a TASO Chapter President and as a District Director. Trust me: they have a marked track record of saying one thing, then doing completely another through their various misstatements, innuendos, as well as their bait and switch tactics. The sole purpose in my commentary is to provide the rationale of staying in place with the organization that we now have because no one could better advocate the issues and needs of officials any better than TASO has.
In any event, I do not (and never will) wish you or any UIL sympathizer any ill-will. And the only true issue that I greatly champion is the preservation of TASO. And if anyone ever finds themselves with a propensity for the overt or clandestine commission or verbal advocacy of violence, I'd like for us all to remember that when Christ was slapped, he merely turned the other cheek to his assailant. In the spirit of the Season, I would like to offer the same to you! z^
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...they rolled out the red carpet for this crew and I'm sure many others who had state games.
They sure must have changed since last years 3A Champ game....
Best regards,
Brad
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Prove to me where registering is a cowardly act ! If I get a choice (which will now be decided by a judge) I choose TASO. But in all reality for most of us regular guys that are not past presidents or regional directors with relationships and the percieved perks those positions provide. We only have relationships with our chapter. Most will choose to CALL FOOTBALL regardless of what patch or lack there of. I don't think any of you decided to join TASO first. I am sure you all decided to become Official first.TASO was the recognized organization for us to do so. Don't forget Crews wore the UIL HAT in the Championship games before all this crap started. So instead of lowering yourself to the same type of name calling and comments that ornery1 uses step back and consider those of us that did register did not quit TASO, we are not cowards and we not disloyal we are also not Officers of TASO we are dues paying members. most of us would not be opposed to being members of both. If I choose to be a member of NASO also does that make me a coward too? after all its a diferent organization ? Make no mistake about it the chapter membership wants TASO to win and would not change if there is an either or choice. But most will call Football regardless thats not a cowardly act. Its a choice to call football because most of us don't have enough years in to be able to just walk away.
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There are states where the counter part to the UIL and local official associations coexist,why can't you all in Texas do the same?
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There are states where the counter part to the UIL and local official associations coexist,why can't you all in Texas do the same?
We have tried tow trust me.
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Rick you were there what's the story on the crew wearing the hats? Have these guys been supporting UIL all along (so it was no surprise)?
Well, I have stayed out of this purposely but here it is.
Did I think the hats were the in thing? No, I thought they were ugly.
Do I think any less of the guys who wore them? Absolutely not!
Do I think the guys were trying to make a statement about their feeling with the TASO/UIL mess? Absolutely not. I do not think anyone on that crew had registered with UIL.
Why did they wear them? I have not talked with them about it and probably will not. I did text the crew chief after the game and told him they did a great job despite the ugly hats. I believe he will take it in the spirit which I intended, as a joke.
Would I wear one. Probably not at this juncture but I have not had the opportunity to make the decision. I hope I do have the chance someday.
Do I belive that someone who registered with UIL was cowardly? Absolutely not. Each person has to make up their own mind on what they should do about this situation. Like it or not at some point we are going to have to sit down with UIL and work things out. They control the schools which hire us
Do I want TASO to be around as organization? Definitely!
Do I think UIL has our best interest at heart? Hell no!
Do I think UIL has some things to offer TASO? Yes
Rick
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There are states where the counter part to the UIL and local official associations coexist,why can't you all in Texas do the same?
tow, it just isn't that easy. It could have worked if it were not done the way it was done and if not for the incredibly huge egos involved.
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Its a choice to call football because most of us don't have enough years in to be able to just walk away.
You always have the choice to walk away with no yearly requirement. No one holds a gun to your head making you call or not call. They may hold a hat with a goofy patch to your head, but you always have the choice.
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You always have the choice to walk away with no yearly requirement. No one holds a gun to your head making you call or not call. They may hold a hat with a goofy patch to your head, but you always have the choice.
No I ment I still love it I haven't done it so long that I have accomplished all i want to accomplish. I have a great chapter great crew and i would miss it too much. The only yearly requirement I have is self imposed.
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When are organizers going to learn to supply hats that are actually made for football officials? It's not that hard to put a logo on a black/white stiped hat. With the advent of the flex hats, it is also sacrilige to use those hats with the old adjustable bands at the back. The FHSAA supplies hats here for the finals and are all Richardson flex hats with a tasteful FHSAA logo on the front and a mini FHSAA logo on the back at the bottom. I also don't get how coaches get to pick playoff crews, but that's a topic for another time.
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Coaches are king in Texas. That is just how it works.
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When are organizers going to learn to supply hats that are actually made for football officials? It's not that hard to put a logo on a black/white stiped hat. With the advent of the flex hats, it is also sacrilige to use those hats with the old adjustable bands at the back. The FHSAA supplies hats here for the finals and are all Richardson flex hats with a tasteful FHSAA logo on the front and a mini FHSAA logo on the back at the bottom. I also don't get how coaches get to pick playoff crews, but that's a topic for another time.
From what I could tell the hats they gave the crew were the flex hats as one of the guys had to keep pulling at his to keep it on and comfortable.
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Coaches are king in Texas. That is just how it works.
Coaches (schools) are the employers paying our fees. Why would they not get the choice. Better than having some organization making the selection -- where the politics of the selection are more in play.
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Coaches (schools) are the employers paying our fees. Why would they not get the choice. Better than having some organization making the selection -- where the politics of the selection are more in play.
Because there are no politics involved with coaches choosing right? ;)
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The current alternative to coach selection is UIL selection. "Coach, who do you want?"
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Because there are no politics involved with coaches choosing right? ;)
There is no ideal or equitable option available. Right now the coaches decide on what crew they want. If left to an organization (local chapter) it may be a fair process and it may not. Someone will always feel they are getting slighted no matter what system we have in place.
I would rather have the coaches select the crews or officials they want than have UIL or even TASO make the selection. If you do a good job the coaches will want to use you again. You do not have to kiss their butt or favor them. Just be business like, hustle and be consistent. They may not like all of the calls but they can still like you and your crew.
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Spot on Rick.
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^flag
I couldn't agree more, Gentlemen! TASO has never lent itself, at least in my 31 years of experience, to get involved in the game assignment process. That has been solely left to the participating schools and to their coaches. The UIL has traditionally been there if there was some disagreement between the schools in regard to questions about racial makeup of a crew, et. al. The UIL's traditional stance was to take that request from the schools and the UIL then submitted that request to a TASO Chapter that could adequately meet those requirements.
Now they are wanting the local Chapters to submit a list of their top 25% crews.(based on exactly what criteria, I do not know!) Like in basketball and baseball, the UIL wants to somehow have that "list" in hand so they can solely make the selections, more especially in the state semifinals and finals. Football in Texas has a long and storied history of always allowing the coaches to mutually agree upon a Chapter or a particular crew of officials to work their game. Like TASO, I hope the UIL will always keep this option open to the coaches. For them not to do so will, no doubt, begin to splinter their already fragile relationships with the Texas State Coaches! z^
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I brought up this "Top 25%" BS before http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=6960.0 (http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=6960.0)
A lot of the guys that are so anxious to sign on with this bunch don't understand where this is headed, or could be headed. If your chapter does not put you in the "top 25%" list or you do not meet one of the "diversity" standards, you could eventually get taken out of playoffs totally. I am not necessarily against having a "Top 25%" but to have one requires a much better vetting/evaluation system than any Chapter in this state has right now.
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and chose to wear the quite spectacular UIL hats
I bet there is an UIL patch on Ornery's dunce cap..... any takers
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How about those Ft. Worth boys and those caps!
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My goodness.....
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where can I watch this on the web?
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I hear it was a UIL assignment
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TxMike I heard the same.
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I hear it was a UIL assignment
That's interesting. Add that to the chapter secretary assigning himself and you have a double dose of stuff.
Hey, you going to be in the chat room for these games. Were you not supposed to be at a TASO meeting today?
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I will be in tomorrow. Tied up today
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This game is like an NBA game....no defense.
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Regardess of what is on the hats, it looks awful.
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That's interesting. Add that to the chapter secretary assigning himself and you have a double dose of stuff.
Hey, you going to be in the chat room for these games. Were you not supposed to be at a TASO meeting today?
Which position is the chap sec?
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Which position is the chap sec?
Referee
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I hear it was a UIL assignment
All 3 of the games that the FTW Chapter are working this weekend were UIL assignments. That's what you get when your Assigning Secretary has his head buried up TT's backside. So much for "fairness" of assignments. I guess Tony couldn't spread the love around to other Chapters.
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Ft Worth boys look really good tonight and love the hats!!!!!!!!
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is he wearing the UIL sweater he was styling in at the UIL's suite at Jerry World last weekend.
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is he wearing the UIL sweater he was styling in at the UIL's suite at Jerry World last weekend.
Damn, I don't have one of those, but maybe Santa will bring me one this year. I have been really good!!!!! Way to go Clark, you and your boys are getting an early Christmas. Proud of you!!!!!!
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The fact uil said they would not consider uil registration when assigning playoff games and have now been proven once again to be untruthful does not bother you?
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The fact uil said they would not consider uil registration when assigning playoff games and have now been proven once again to be untruthful does not bother you?
Mike, you do recognize how silly that question is, don't you?
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Objection your Honor, How can you ask what the UIL's mindset was when they considered assigning Ft Worth the 3A game. There is no possible way that you can assume that the UIL assigned that game to someone other than a taso. Ft Worth is one of the larger chapters and they deserve the game equally to Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Waco, Lubbock or El Paso!!!! OBJECTION SUSTAINED
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So, what's the odds for South Plains wearing the hats in game #2?
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I say they do....
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I agree with Brad. South Plains wears the Hat!!!! 2 for 2
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Ornery - Circumstantial evidence is admissable and can be considered in drawing a conclusion. The evidence presented is as follows.
1. Was crew chief at last weeks 3A title game? Yes
2. Was he wearing a UIL logo shirt? Yes
3. Did he communicate with UIL staff? Yes
4. Did he get a UIL assignment this week? Yes
It is possible to make an assumption or draw a conclusion from these facts whether it is accurate or not. As far as on field evidence goes, I thought the crew did a good job and saw no evidence that they didn't deserve to be there.
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Lets see 2 for 2. Way to go Chris, Big O and Randy Adams District 1 Director wearing the UIL Hat. Say what you will, but the UIL is KING!!!!!!!
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All 3 of the games that the FTW Chapter are working this weekend were UIL assignments. That's what you get when your Assigning Secretary has his head buried up TT's backside. So much for "fairness" of assignments. I guess Tony couldn't spread the love around to other Chapters.
Wow. Anybody have insight to any other UIL assignments other than the Ft. Worth 3?
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Just focus on your one tomorrow, Mr. Cocera. yEs:
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Lets see 2 for 2. Way to go Chris, Big O and Randy Adams District 1 Director wearing the UIL Hat. Say what you will, but the UIL is KING!!!!!!!
You didn't have family that were Vichy French per chance did you?
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Objection your Honor, How can you ask what the UIL's mindset was when they considered assigning Ft Worth the 3A game. There is no possible way that you can assume that the UIL assigned that game to someone other than a taso. Ft Worth is one of the larger chapters and they deserve the game equally to Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Waco, Lubbock or El Paso!!!! OBJECTION SUSTAINED
^flag
Hey pi1eOn Nostradumbus! Let's see if that's the legal vernacular that'll be used from the bench in that Austin Federal Courtroom in the very near future. Got a strong feeling that you'll end up commiserating with both the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# Dancing Monkey as well as all the other circus performers that they've been so busy recruiting lately! z^
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Something to think about. Back in October it was the UIL's intent to force us to register if we were going to work UIL schools football games (remember November 1st....I mean December 1st....I mean...). It was not their goal to get us to wear UIL caps in the Championship games. With that in mind here we are on December 18th with many non-registered Officials working "their" Championship's. Getting people to wear the caps is their "Big Win". I'll take freedom any day. FlAg1
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Nice job for Houston crew. No uil hats. Although they missed the enforcement when the player signalled fair catch and then blocked
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Houston TASO makes a statement! Couldn't be prouder the crew told the UIL to shove their hats!
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I am so proud and happy that Mike and his crew stood up to the UIL.
Mike, TASO Houston Football is proud of you. You and your crew are sending a message to the UIL and every chapter in the state showing where you stand. :bOW
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Looks like Waco crew drank the kool-aid. Wearing UIL caps. Houston crew only one with enough gumption to tell them to shove it.
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Looks like Waco crew drank the kool-aid. Wearing UIL caps. Houston crew only one with enough gumption to tell them to shove it.
Spineless is as ornery does.
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Looks like Waco crew drank the kool-aid. Wearing UIL caps. Houston crew only one with enough gumption to tell them to shove it.
any of you see the ref and line judge move inside the numbers on kickoff returns. The lj got mixed in with players on the cut back on the return. Great call by the HL for holding an eligible receiver . The hats are ugly no matter what is written on them
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How great a call is it when it was totally away from the play and the QB never even looked that way?
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I suspect the LJ is not a full time LJ. On the first TD the U had to basically stop the snap to allow for him to get under the post. On the second TD the BJ kept waving him to get under after Denton set up in a swinging gate then swithced to kick.
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Oh my RickWts, your guys must have gotten in to the kool-aid in the dressing room. Wearing those ugly hats!! Guess Houston and Dallas are the only ones with balls enough to say no.
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The big chapters get the most games, and refuse to sell out and wear the hats. Shame on the others for being spineless.
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Tyler using 7 man in Trinity game.
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I am sorry but I don't see how wearing a hat makes anyone spineless...I assure you this crew has nothing to gain or lose by wearing or not wearing that hat.
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The problem lies in that the mechanics manual we use and apply to all officials says there is to be not emblems or numbers on the hat. We let that slide, what else do we let slide? The only thing the Houston and Dallas crews gained is a greater respect from those officials who chose to follow the rules.
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While I understand and respect your opinion. Did you take the same stand when officials wore pink ribbons or pink whistles in support of breast cancer awareness. I don't like the hats either. but what your doing is taking something harmless like wearing a hat with a patch on it to divide Larger Chapters against the Smaller Ones, Just the kind of divide and conqure that some people would love to see.
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I used to think that was a goal of those in Austin, to make this a large chapter versus small chapter deal. But I don't think that serves them well. If they do not get Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin on board, they can get every other Chapter in the state and still not be able to function.
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How great a call is it when it was totally away from the play and the QB never even looked that way?
my view at the game looked like the QB looked his way first but the defense had him on the collar so he went the other way.
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^flag
Ornery, I only hope that if you choose to go to church this morning, that you take a copy of this latest post of yours and discuss it with your pastor and see if he gives you some form of concurence in the presentation of your opinions. If you don't do that, then I seriously think that you need some counseling. We all know that you hold a deep grudge against TASO, but you're doing it in such a way that not even your chosen mentor, Dr. Breithaupt, would even begin to offer approval to. For your own sake, try to get yourself some much needed help! z^
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^flag
Kudos to my officiating brethren in Houston and in Dallas/FW who correctly and judiciously followed the precepts of the mechanics manual and did not wear the hat with the UIL logo.
I was at Cowboys Stadium yesterday and while seeing that my fellow Houston Chapter crew did not wear the hat, the crew of officials for the second game did. And to further reinforce things, the chain crew for that second game was walking out donning some of the UIL hats. Would these have been perhaps the very same UIL hats that the Houston Chapter crew adamantly refused to wear in their game? z^
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The houston crew was told that if they didn't wear the hats they probably take them back.they chose not to wear them and one of the officials stuck the hat in his bag. During the course of the game, someone went through his bag and took the hay back. The uil is real trust worthy. Ornery,jealousy is not a good look for you. might I suggest you take up officiating volleyball. Maybe you could reach the level of success you will never achieve in football. I doubt it though. Sad!
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The houston crew was told that if they didn't wear the hats they probably take them back.they chose not to wear them and one of the officials stuck the hat in his bag. During the course of the game, someone went through his bag and took the hay back. The uil is real trust worthy. Ornery,jealousy is not a good look for you. might I suggest you take up officiating volleyball. Maybe you could reach the level of success you will never achieve in football. I doubt it though. Sad!
^flag
Now that is really one ethical act! Who would have had access to the Cowboy Stadium officials locker room other than the game officials? Someone from the UIL perhaps? From your report, it appears that the hats were, in fact, "given" to the Houston officials but sometime during their absence from the locker room, the said hats that had been placed in the officials bags by the game officials somehow just up and walked away! Did Mr. Timmons or any other UIL personnel that was present have some kind of a skeleton key to that particular locker room?
While initially sounding a little bit like pilfering, the greater concern here is that some individual or individuals broke the sanctity of and entered that officials locker room and thereby, in all probability, is guilty of breaking and entering. This should have been immediately reported to Cowboy Stadium Security as well as the local policing authority which was the City of Arlington PD. Someone really needs to be asked some hard and pointed questions about this most unfortunate occurence! z^
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Watched all 5 games this weekend at Cowboys Stadium and 4 of the 5 decided to wear the hats, it just shows that they are acting like a bunch of horses BUTTS.
FIFY
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Dallas official had a under armor on side of his hat, was he in proper uniform
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Dallas official had a under armor on side of his hat, was he in proper uniform
No, he was not inproger uniform if he had "any" emblem or number on his cap.
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Oh no... :!#. Put he and all the hat wearers in TASO jail.
Similarly anyone with off white knickers, the new 'moisture' wicking shirts which are not 'mesh', and anyone who used a blue beanbag should be locked away...
I would wager that most of the folks labeling other officials spineless and cowards would be the real spinless ones when presented the ability to say that to any of their faces... Give it a rest..
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I was more disturbed with the mechanics the Waco crew was using on the kickoff. I have never seen it done before and it is not in any mechanics manual I have ever seen.
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I was more disturbed with the mechanics the Waco crew was using on the kickoff. I have never seen it done before and it is not in any mechanics manual I have ever seen.
The Houston crew used onside kick mechanics for all kick offs.
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There is nothing that prevents a crew from using short free kick mechanics on all kickoffs. And with all the pooch kicking going on these days, it might be a better alternative than the traditional KO mechanics. This is an area the mechanics committee needs to look at this Spring
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We went to using short free kick mechanics exclusively this season and loved it.
Mike and several other crews in the chapter do it all the time. I am comfortable being back there deep by myself and knw my guys up front are ready for anything that could be challenging.
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As Brent said, short kick mechanics for all kick offs are utilized by quite a few crews in the Houston chapter.
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Same is true in Dallas.
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I have no problem with short kick mechanics. For those that didn't see the Waco crew. If the kick was to the LJ side, the R would move to the numbers instead of staying on the sideline. The LJ would do the same when the ball was kicked to the R's side. On one kick the LJ came to the numbers and then the kick returner reversed directions and the LJ had to retreat to get out of the way. It's hard to officiate when you are retreating. I saw no benefit in what they were doing.
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I think my crew chief said we're going to the so-called short kick mechanics on everything as well. We have fast wings and he likes being in the middle of the field -- feels like we miss some things due to bad angles.
How about another short kick mechanic where the BJ or U is behind the kicking team, the other is on the K's restraining line, and the wings are on the R's restraining line on obvious onside situations? Puts someone close in the middle of the field to rule on possession when the guys on the sideline don't have a good angle. Gives up the other side of K's restraining line for possible offsides call, as well as isolating one official on a sideline.
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never been sure why we have two for K's line and just 1 for R's seems to me that if we only have one watch that 1 is better able to watch k's R's is much harder for one official to watch far sideline on short kick for first touching.
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My problem with short kick mechanics all the time, is how do you cover the pylons? It is impossible. Also, any deep kicks are then tough to get FP as everybody is up around the kicker. IMO short kick mechanics should only be used if the pouch/short kick is exclusively used, and you can't decide that until the game has started. I for one and not a fan of short all of the time that several crews (with new mechanics blessing) has gone to. We will not be going to this choice in my crew.
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Pwerhaps it is diff in your area but the pylon is threatened on far fewer KOs than are there incidents where having 4 up can help.
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Kudos to my officiating brethren in Houston and in Dallas/FW who correctly and judiciously followed the precepts of the mechanics manual and did not wear the hat with the UIL logo.
I was at Cowboys Stadium yesterday and while seeing that my fellow Houston Chapter crew did not wear the hat, the crew of officials for the second game did. And to further reinforce things, the chain crew for that second game was walking out donning some of the UIL hats. Would these have been perhaps the very same UIL hats that the Houston Chapter crew adamantly refused to wear in their game? z^
Good job to those who left those ugly UIL hats in the locker rooms - how dare others think the UIL has anything to do with the state championship game - except owning them of course - maybe the coaches will send back the plaques they received for participating in the state championship game since the plaques all have the UIL emblem; maybe the schools will leave the state championship trophies on the field since the trophies all have the UIL emblem on them - that would sure show the mean ole UIL. And lets get the fans to send back all their shirts they purchased at the stadium in support of their schools which listed the schools that participated in the championship games - they have the UIL emblem on them. Then there were the televised games - all of which showed the UIL emblem numerous times - let's boycott those stations! I'm sure the UIL is losing sleep over this well received "snub" since no one other than a few on this site even noticed - or cared - that the hats were not worn. It's always a good idea to HACK off the boss, and like it or not sports fans, the UIL is our boss - you can't get along with the boss, find another job.
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Isn't that the crux of the situation? They WANT to be our boss but many of us do not want them to be.
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Isn't that the crux of the situation? They WANT to be our boss but many of us do not want them to be.
Mike - do you really believe that the UIL is not in charge of public school athletic events in Texas?
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Yes but they are not our boss any more than they are the boss of the EMS crews that are at the fields.
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Good job to those who left those ugly UIL hats in the locker rooms - how dare others think the UIL has anything to do with the state championship game - except owning them of course - maybe the coaches will send back the plaques they received for participating in the state championship game since the plaques all have the UIL emblem; maybe the schools will leave the state championship trophies on the field since the trophies all have the UIL emblem on them - that would sure show the mean ole UIL. And lets get the fans to send back all their shirts they purchased at the stadium in support of their schools which listed the schools that participated in the championship games - they have the UIL emblem on them. Then there were the televised games - all of which showed the UIL emblem numerous times - let's boycott those stations! I'm sure the UIL is losing sleep over this well received "snub" since no one other than a few on this site even noticed - or cared - that the hats were not worn. It's always a good idea to HACK off the boss, and like it or not sports fans, the UIL is our boss - you can't get along with the boss, find another job.
Isn't that the crux of the situation? They WANT to be our boss but many of us do not want them to be.
^flag
If that was the case, why didn't the UIL make a push to take over TASO officiating during the Bailey Marshall or the Bill Farney administrations? The fact of the matter was that both Dr. Marshall and Dr. Farney did officiate during their careers. Not so with the current incumbent! TASO has no argument with the UIL merchandise that was sold to the fans. Our main argument is through their seemingly underhanded method of trying to usurp and manipulate all officiating authority from TASO, an organization that worked right alongside the UIL right into the Breithaupt administration. The tiphat: Good UIL Dr. has overtly made it part of his standing agenda to bring everything in high school athletics, including officiating, directly under his auspices and control.
The decision not to wear the UIL hats is not to circumvent what success that the UIL has had: it is done largely because a plurality of TASO officials object to the way that this is being handled by the UIL and subsequent "bad faith" that the UIL has demonstrated toward TASO. In essence, who can trust them anymore? What action on the part of the UIL can speak to any rational official ever trusting them again? They want their plums now! The officials who champion the UIL takeover are the ones who do not like waiting for something good to happen to them. The UIL is also trying to implement a "divide and conquer" strategy by pitting UIL officials against TASO officials; by pitting small TASO chapters against the larger chapters, younger officials against the more experienced officials, and also along racial lines. And when we finally reach the bottom line, the UIL is doing this for no other reason than total control. And that control will ultimately lead to an edited UIL 1204 whereby the officials will lose the gate receipts that only football officials now, in theory, enjoy and will soon see football officiating pay go the way of the other UIL sports and that is greatly toward a flat fee. And once that happens, then we will no longer have any recourse other than to graciously accept the crumbs that the UIL is placing on the table or to simply quit or retire.
And if you remotely think that the "Good Ole Boy System" is prevalent within TASO, then just you wait for the time when the UIL fully gets total control of the situation! All I can say is "Well, you ain't seen nothing yet!" z^
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Isn't that the crux of the situation? They WANT to be our boss but many of us do not want them to be.
Cooter is right. Dr B is our Boss like it or not and Tony Timmons is the Director of Officials. If you aren't happy with your leadership then I suggest you take up bowling!!!! yEs:
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Dr B and Tony Timmons should take up bowling!!!!
FIFY
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If you aren't happy with your leadership then I suggest you take up bowling!!!! yEs:
Well that is about all we could do under Timmons isn't it? There sure doesn't seem to be any other way of holding our potential "leadership" accountable to the membership under the UIL. Unless of course you are onboard with the benevolent dictatorship methodology...which brings me back to my previous question about your ties to the Vichy French.
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"Leadership"...interesting word to use in same breath as Timmons. What qualifies him to be a "leader" and more importantly, what leadership has he shwon thus far?
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Cooter is right. Dr B is our Boss like it or not and Tony Timmons is the Director of Officials. If you aren't happy with your leadership then I suggest you take up bowling!!!! yEs:
Actually, if we aren't happy with our leadership we vote them out. Let me know how that will work out with the UIL. Oh wait, UIL doesn't have elections. I think I'd much rather be associated with an organization that I have some control of.
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Cooter is right. Dr B is our Boss like it or not and Tony Timmons is the Director of Officials. If you aren't happy with your leadership then I suggest you take up bowling!!!! yEs:
Ornery/Cooter: If those two UIL people that you so profusely lather over are indeed deemed to be the "bosses," then exactly where does Mike Fitch and the TASO Board all figure into this equation? Last time I looked, we were waiting on the decision of a Federal Judge in Austin to help determine just that! z^
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Ornery/Cooter: If those two UIL people that you so profusely lather over are indeed deemed to be the "bosses," then exactly where does Mike Fitch and the TASO Board all figure into this equation? Last time I looked, we were waiting on the decision of a Federal Judge in Austin to help determine just that! z^
I've said numerous times that Timmons is not the man for the job - I do respect Dr. B though - but the UIL is in charge of athletics, regardless of how the lawsuit comes out. If, and I expect it will, the court says TASO does not have to register with UIL, do you really think UIL will go away? They regulate and oversee all interscholastic activities for public schools in Texas - and they always have - do you really not believe this?
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I've said numerous times that Timmons is not the man for the job - I do respect Dr. B though - but the UIL is in charge of athletics, regardless of how the lawsuit comes out. If, and I expect it will, the court says TASO does not have to register with UIL, do you really think UIL will go away? They regulate and oversee all interscholastic activities for public schools in Texas - and they always have - do you really not believe this?
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I totally believe that! The same way we believed it when Dr. Farney and Dr, Marshall was in charge of the UIL and jointly worked with TASO, not against it the way that the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. has. The UIL has the inherent right to conduct all activities for the schools. That is not and never has been a matter of dispute. But when the UIL hires a grossly unqualified :!# "Director of Officials," and then clandestinely as well as overtly goes after the existing TASO Sports Divisions, and provides a vehicle for them to change their allegiance. This never occurred on the other two long-term UIL ED's watch, only that of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. Say what you will, but this is nothing more than a premeditated act on the part of the UIL and its current administration in their attempt to wield total control over yet another entity in which to file directly under its jurisdiction. Their main impetus in doing so is to ultimately reduce officiating fees as prescribed by UIL 1204 and also to control who gets named to work the UIL playoff games and thereby taking that choice out of the hands of the competing coaches current system of being able to select their game officials by mutual agreement. With the UIL in control, then there would definitely be "taxation without representation" as you could never be in position or have any provisions to vote either the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. or his :!# annointed puppet ringmaster of officials out of office. The UIL further offers no discernible means of due process for an official on its watch. You would be totally at their mercy! Say what you might, but the same simply cannot be said of TASO! z^
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I've said numerous times that Timmons is not the man for the job - I do respect Dr. B though - but the UIL is in charge of athletics, regardless of how the lawsuit comes out. If, and I expect it will, the court says TASO does not have to register with UIL, do you really think UIL will go away? They regulate and oversee all interscholastic activities for public schools in Texas - and they always have - do you really not believe this?
You are right, I have said many times we will have to co-exist with the UIL. We have done it for many years and we will do it for many more. But working with them is a hell of a lot different than working for them!
I have no doubt Breithaupt eats, lives, sleeps and breaths UIL and wants the best for them. I do not think he has the same feelings for us as officials. He has done nothing to show me that he values the officials, wants to keeps us as officials and make things better for us as officials. Until that day happens, I will oppose the UIL taking over.
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I guess I missed the part where TASO or the UIL ever signed one of my paychecks... So I am pretty sure that I work for the schools involved in the particular contest, even if UIL somehow wins and you have to register your name with them to call a football game, I am pretty sure that the schools will still be writing the checks.
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I guess I missed the part where TASO or the UIL ever signed one of my paychecks... So I am pretty sure that I work for the schools involved in the particular contest, even if UIL somehow wins and you have to register your name with them to call a football game, I am pretty sure that the schools will still be writing the checks.
^flag
The beauty of it is that you are deemed to be an "independent contractor." You don't work for the UIL or for TASO. But TASO has always attempted to represent your best interests in the avocation of sports officiating. No one can really say the same thing about the UIL, as their foremost interests rest primarily in offering representation of themselves, along with the Superintendents, the School Administrators, the Athletic Directors, and supposedly the Coaches. In any event, it is all too apparent that the UIL will only begin to look out for the needs of the official when only absolutely forced to do so, and not a second sooner! z^
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I've said numerous times that Timmons is not the man for the job - I do respect Dr. B though - but the UIL is in charge of athletics, regardless of how the lawsuit comes out. If, and I expect it will, the court says TASO does not have to register with UIL, do you really think UIL will go away? They regulate and oversee all interscholastic activities for public schools in Texas - and they always have - do you really not believe this?
I too used to respect Dr B when I thought he was shooting straight with us back in the day when he would come to the State meetings and sing our praises. But we have subsequently seen that perhaps he was being dishonest then, he has definitely been dishonest since about some things (which will be come all too apparent if and when he gets under deposition), and his greatest sin (for me anyway) has been his bringing in of Timmons. Of the main folks over there, the only one that seems to be at least trying to play square is Cliff O. I still don't know why, if this take over of officiating was so important to them, they didn't put him over officiating and have him try to work with us to bring TASO guys "into the fold".
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I too used to respect Dr B when I thought he was shooting straight with us back in the day when he would come to the State meetings and sing our praises. But we have subsequently seen that perhaps he was being dishonest then, he has definitely been dishonest since about some things (which will be come all too apparent if and when he gets under deposition), and his greatest sin (for me anyway) has been his bringing in of Timmons. Of the main folks over there, the only one that seems to be at least trying to play square is Cliff O. I still don't know why, if this take over of officiating was so important to them, they didn't put him over officiating and have him try to work with us to bring TASO guys "into the fold".
Could not have been said better TXMike.
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I too used to respect Dr B when I thought he was shooting straight with us back in the day when he would come to the State meetings and sing our praises. But we have subsequently seen that perhaps he was being dishonest then, he has definitely been dishonest since about some things (which will be come all too apparent if and when he gets under deposition), and his greatest sin (for me anyway) has been his bringing in of Timmons. Of the main folks over there, the only one that seems to be at least trying to play square is Cliff O. I still don't know why, if this take over of officiating was so important to them, they didn't put him over officiating and have him try to work with us to bring TASO guys "into the fold".
Has anyone else noticed how quiet the "real" AD for the uil has been? We have seen and heard mostly from the other two.
No youtube videos...no pressbox interviews during games...has he appeared in court proceedings?
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Has anyone else noticed how quiet the "real" AD for the uil has been? We have seen and heard mostly from the other two.
No youtube videos...no pressbox interviews during games...has he appeared in court proceedings?
^flag
And that's a rather astute observation! Mr. Odenwald, a former, much-respected, football coach, has either voluntarily chosen to keep himself out of this UIL fray or has been told by the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. to either get on board the UIL Steamroller or to steer clear of him and his :!# Dancing Monkey while they do all of the dirty work. If/When the Austin Federal Judge rules favorably for TASO, then through the initial rounds of depositions we should be able to get some initial indication of what anyone with any stroke over there on Manor Road knew, and when they came into knowledge of it. Once those depositions get underway, I would think that you will see that this was a well-planned conspiracy by the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# little Simien friend. And I think that it is rather noteworthy that all of these grandiose plans seem to have been perpetrated solely by the UIL Basketball people! z^
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The more time that goes by, the less those depositions are going to reveal.
I said this two years ago, and I still stand behind it. The UIL should have (and still could) built a better mousetrap and offered the choice. The free market is always better than a government agency stuffing regulation down the throats of it's subjects. If the UIL had designed and offered a better organization, better training, better leadership, etc...they could have gotten the keys to the storehouse given to them.
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The more time that goes by, the less those depositions are going to reveal.
I said this two years ago, and I still stand behind it. The UIL should have (and still could) built a better mousetrap and offered the choice. The free market is always better than a government agency stuffing regulation down the throats of it's subjects. If the UIL had designed and offered a better organization, better training, better leadership, etc...they could have gotten the keys to the storehouse given to them.
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Had the UIL continued to partner with TASO, much as they did during the UIL administrations of both Dr. Farney and Dr. Marshall, we would still be in continuance of having the great relationship with the UIL that we had back then. Dr. Breithaupt almost single-handedly, saw to it that the proven spirit of partnership with TASO was going to come to an abrupt end, moreso to help achieve his own dictatorial ends! z^
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Had the UIL continued to partner with TASO, much as they did during the UIL administrations of both Dr. Farney and Dr. Marshall, we would still be in continuance of having the great relationship with the UIL that we had back then. Dr. Breithaupt almost single-handedly, saw to it that the proven spirit of partnership with TASO was going to come to an abrupt end, moreso to help achieve his own dictatorial ends! z^
The main reason Dr. B supported the current UIL position was the overwhelming backlash by school supers and AD/s who were being held hostage by TASO chapters who threatened strikes and were negotiating their own fee structures - we all know these were not football chapters - however, we are TASO and suffered collateral damage. Dr. B does not need or want to be a dictator - we've discussed many times the sports/chapters that caused all the current problems. You can't blame Dr. B for these issues.
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This "held hostage" BS does not work for B.O. And it does not work here. Nobody was "held hostage".
There were some chapters who elected not to work for UIL scale. That was their right. Nobody should be able to force someone to work for what they are not willing to accept. If they will not accept the pay offered, then those offering the pay just need to hire folks who will work for that fee.
Finally, do you even know the miniscule number of chapters who had an issue with UIL pay rate? It was a tiny minority.
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This "held hostage" BS does not work for B.O. And it does not work here. Nobody was "held hostage".
There were some chapters who elected not to work for UIL scale. That was their right. Nobody should be able to force someone to work for what they are not willing to accept. If they will not accept the pay offered, then those offering the pay just need to hire folks who will work for that fee.
Finally, do you even know the miniscule number of chapters who had an issue with UIL pay rate? It was a tiny minority.
We are all repeating ourselves so no need to go there. We will continue to agree to disagree. One a somewhat related subject - have you heard anything on the court status? Those in my neck of the woods thought something would come down before Christmas.
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Isn't this all very simple? And yes I am new to this board but not new to the game.
The UIL has never been a friend to officials, except when it came to supporting a ruling or ejection. Having been a part of such a proceeding in ATX, the UIL was very hard on the coach(es) for their stupidity and backed the officials 100%.
TASO has always been a middle man doing our bidding and accepting what the UIL hands down. No matter what TASO really wants, driving directly into the UIL's bus is not the way to go get it. Marky Mark and the H-Town Baseball Bunch tried that which may be why this situation is what it is today.
If anything, lawyers will decide and we may all be better for it. Turning on the lights makes all the roaches scatter. Slow ones gets stepped on.
As for the hats, outside of Houston and Dallas what other chapters did not wear them? There were 10 games. If only 2 chapters (2 games) did not wear them, what does that really say about a dumb hat? Don't give any one of us that junk about "well these ARE the 2 largest chapters" because honestly there are more officials not associated with these 2 chapters than are.
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Wellll......not that it much matters, but between them, Dallas and Houston account for 31% of all the football officials in the state.
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I do not know if all 10 crews were offered. We they at the 6 man, 1A & 2A venues? I really do not know. All of the discussion has been about what was seen on the tv broadcast.
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Isn't this all very simple? And yes I am new to this board but not new to the game.
The UIL has never been a friend to officials, except when it came to supporting a ruling or ejection. Having been a part of such a proceeding in ATX, the UIL was very hard on the coach(es) for their stupidity and backed the officials 100%.
TASO has always been a middle man doing our bidding and accepting what the UIL hands down. No matter what TASO really wants, driving directly into the UIL's bus is not the way to go get it. Marky Mark and the H-Town Baseball Bunch tried that which may be why this situation is what it is today.
If anything, lawyers will decide and we may all be better for it. Turning on the lights makes all the roaches scatter. Slow ones gets stepped on.
As for the hats, outside of Houston and Dallas what other chapters did not wear them? There were 10 games. If only 2 chapters (2 games) did not wear them, what does that really say about a dumb hat? Don't give any one of us that junk about "well these ARE the 2 largest chapters" because honestly there are more officials not associated with these 2 chapters than are.
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Welcome to Refstripes! To my knowledge, only the Houston crew who did the Lake Travis-Denton Ryan game, and the Dallas crew who did the Daingerfield-Cameron Yoe game chose not to don the UIL hats primarily because of the codicle in the TASO uniforms section that mandates that no unapproved patches or lettering are to be worn on the officiating apparel! The other crews that did choose to wear the UIL hats did so in direct disregard to that codicle only "because the UIL asked them to wear the hats."
It would seem to me that had the UIL had been productively working in partnership with TASO in the years that they introduced their "funny little hats" and had asked the TASO State Board to allow the wearing of those hats in a championship venue, that TASO would have adopted the proposal with open arms. But since the UIL was definitely in the Breithaupt administration, there was little to no communication by the UIL on that subject matter, and tiphat: Good Time Charlie just thinks, "those officials don't need any TASO approval to wear those things for us~ we'll just set them out on the dressing room table and, well, they'll get the message!"
While serving on the TASO State Board during that time, about the only communication we got out of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. was his showing up at the Annual TASO Football State Convention, handing out a few of his UIL golf hats, taking some TASO hats and shirts in return, telling the TASO State Board and the General Assembly "what an absolutely fantastic job we were all doing working with the UIL" and what time was his "free" tee time scheduled for at the annual TASO Convention Golf Tournament. z^
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Thank you for the welcome.
I must admit that I feel the codicil has little if anything to do with not wearing the hats. Using it as a CYA would be more in line with the truth being a large amount of animosity towards the UIL. Having the uniform policy to fall back on makes it easier than just saying (honestly) I do not like the UIL and I am not going to wear their hat. 100% agree with had the UIL and TASO relationship been on quality ground the hat issue would be no issue.
The UIL did not supply the hats directly to the game officials. The hats were delivered to the locker room prior to games by the official's host committee. The committee member's exact comments were, "Here are the hats, do what you wish." (yes i was in a locker room visiting friends) To my knowledge, the UIL representative (TT who was not in the same locker room i was) said he will not and is not advocating or mandating anyone wear the hat.
GTC has been known to utilize his position to garner a free round of golf from TASO that is true. I had the opportunity to play behind his group a few years ago and he took offense to mine being longer than his. I told him no big deal. TASO uses distance balls that must be bigger also.
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Wellll......not that it much matters, but between them, Dallas and Houston account for 31% of all the football officials in the state.
Surely it matters, somewhere.
31% is not a majority. Not even using Obamath.
Moreover, the UIL sees this also. Losing 31% is just fine with the UIL. Winning 69% is more important.
All that being said, the entirety of the 31% is not "pro-TASO" just as the entirety of the 69% is not "pro-UIL". The numbers really don't matter now that a judge will make the decision.
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Come on now, you are not dealing with a bunch of idiots here. Do you think anyone here (or on Manor Rd for that matter) really believes UIL "wins" without that 31%??? If it were to come to this, do you think HS football could be even semi-officiated with 31% fewer officials than they have now? Nobody is suggesting it will come to that but there is NO WAY UIL would be "fine", or more importantly, will the schools be fine, losing that 31%.
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Thank you for the welcome.
I must admit that I feel the codicil has little if anything to do with not wearing the hats. Using it as a CYA would be more in line with the truth being a large amount of animosity towards the UIL. Having the uniform policy to fall back on makes it easier than just saying (honestly) I do not like the UIL and I am not going to wear their hat. 100% agree with had the UIL and TASO relationship been on quality ground the hat issue would be no issue.
The UIL did not supply the hats directly to the game officials. The hats were delivered to the locker room prior to games by the official's host committee. The committee member's exact comments were, "Here are the hats, do what you wish." (yes i was in a locker room visiting friends) To my knowledge, the UIL representative (TT who was not in the same locker room i was) said he will not and is not advocating or mandating anyone wear the hat.
GTC has been known to utilize his position to garner a free round of golf from TASO that is true. I had the opportunity to play behind his group a few years ago and he took offense to mine being longer than his. I told him no big deal. TASO uses distance balls that must be bigger also.
It is not a question of "don't like the UIL". It is a question about them trying to force us to join them and destroying the organization to which we belong. It has been said several times, but worth repeating. If the UIL had approached this with a better model, better deal for the officials, better training programs, etc. this might all be a mute point. Also had UIL approached TASO about wearing the hats it would not be an issue. There are many, many things that would not be "an issue" had there been better communication and spokesman for and from UIL.
Remember: Proper Planning Prevents HACK Poor Performance.
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The UIL did not supply the hats directly to the game officials. The hats were delivered to the locker room prior to games by the official's host committee. The committee member's exact comments were, "Here are the hats, do what you wish." (yes i was in a locker room visiting friends) To my knowledge, the UIL representative (TT who was not in the same locker room i was) said he will not and is not advocating or mandating anyone wear the hat.
I can assure you that your description is not completely accurate for each game or crew. I don't doubt what you are saying was the case for the game you witnessed but it was not the case for all games. I will agree with the general point of the comment that there was no undue pressure or coercion from the UIL to wear the hats. But there was also no pressure from TASO to not wear them. Because our fight is about much bigger issues than hats neither side (officially) made it a big deal and that's probably how we should leave it.
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@TXMike....if reread, I clearly said that not all of the 31% support TASO and not all of the 69% support the UIL. Therefore, you could say a 69% to 31% majority could be, let me say again and louder COULD BE, "fine". Since clearly you are attempting to deal in reality just as I have been, when it is all over, there will be some fall out no matter the victor. Agreed? For the record, nobody mentioned anything about idiots until you and I most certainly did not imply such.
@Rick....I also subscribe to the 6 P's. Therefore I will restate that there will be fallout no matter the victor. It is gonna happen as it always does. You are exactly correct with we would not be where we are if the UIL would not have pushed their agenda. In fairness, can we honestly say that everything was perfect or as it should be before the legal "experts" got involved? If it were perfect, we would not be having this conversation.
If the UIL would have said "oh pretty please let's just get along" that would have worked? Absolutely not. Actually the UIL did ask for a proposal from a TASO sport only to receive a "take it or leave it" presentation. The UIL handed back the document red-inked and said we'll take this one or you can leave.
If TASO would have said "oh come on over, let's have a beer and things will work out". Mmm nope. Back a few years ago TASO had a good relationship with the UIL because of open communication but always looking over their shoulder. The UIL could not be trusted then so why trust them now?
The relationship is destroyed currently due to ego and envy which is a direct reflection of leadership or lack there of.
Painful but true.
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@TXMike....if reread, I clearly said that not all of the 31% support TASO and not all of the 69% support the UIL. Therefore, you could say a 69% to 31% majority could be, let me say again and louder COULD BE, "fine". Since clearly you are attempting to deal in reality just as I have been, when it is all over, there will be some fall out no matter the victor. Agreed? For the record, nobody mentioned anything about idiots until you and I most certainly did not imply such.
@Rick....I also subscribe to the 6 P's. Therefore I will restate that there will be fallout no matter the victor. It is gonna happen as it always does. You are exactly correct with we would not be where we are if the UIL would not have pushed their agenda. In fairness, can we honestly say that everything was perfect or as it should be before the legal "experts" got involved? If it were perfect, we would not be having this conversation.
If the UIL would have said "oh pretty please let's just get along" that would have worked? Absolutely not. Actually the UIL did ask for a proposal from a TASO sport only to receive a "take it or leave it" presentation. The UIL handed back the document red-inked and said we'll take this one or you can leave.
If TASO would have said "oh come on over, let's have a beer and things will work out". Mmm nope. Back a few years ago TASO had a good relationship with the UIL because of open communication but always looking over their shoulder. The UIL could not be trusted then so why trust them now?
The relationship is destroyed currently due to ego and envy which is a direct reflection of leadership or lack there of.
Painful but true.
Perhaps a beer summit is exactly what we need.
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@TXMike....if reread, I clearly said that not all of the 31% support TASO and not all of the 69% support the UIL. Therefore, you could say a 69% to 31% majority could be, let me say again and louder COULD BE, "fine". Since clearly you are attempting to deal in reality just as I have been, when it is all over, there will be some fall out no matter the victor. Agreed? For the record, nobody mentioned anything about idiots until you and I most certainly did not imply such.
You said "Losing 31% is just fine with the UIL." My point is that you must think we are idiots if you think any of us believe that losing 31% would be fine. And if you want to play the old "not all the 31 % would support TASO" card then you need to throw down the "not all the 69% would support UIL" one also. If the state were to suddenly lose 31 % of its experienced football officiating personnel there is NO way it COULD be fine for anyone.
All UIL had to do was create their own Chapters in those areas where TASO chapters did not want to abide by the UIL's rules. TASO would not have objected. And it might have spurred the guys in those TASO chapters to rethink their position. In fact, since 1204 said officials had to be registered with UIL or TASO, they would not have even had to change 1204.
UIL screwed themselves here. If UIL had left 1204 alone they could have gone to a flat fee system for football and started UIL chapters wherever the TASO chapters said their members would not work for it. Probably a fair number of the guys in TASO chapters would have gone over to the UIL chapter just so they could keep working. UIL could have had an official's program and probably at a lower , had a lower pay scale. Or they could have really take a chance and said if you are a UIL official, you will be paid X but if you are a TASO official you will be paid Y (a lesser amount). In return for being paid more, they could subject the UIL officials to more scrutiny than they do now and get their precious "Accountability."
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Perhaps a beer summit is exactly what we need.
^flag
Trust me! We're way beyond any kind of beer summit with the Manor Road crowd! The actions of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. in actively taking a hand in converting the other TASO sports chapters to answer his "alter call" speaks volumes. We're at an impasse with a person who would rather abolish us as an organization and set up his very own so these "UIL officials" can then dance to his music. We're in court now! Let's see how this all plays out! From TASO's standpoint, I feel rather optimistic! z^
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The main reason Dr. B supported the current UIL position was the overwhelming backlash by school supers and AD/s who were being held hostage by TASO chapters who threatened strikes and were negotiating their own fee structures - we all know these were not football chapters - however, we are TASO and suffered collateral damage. Dr. B does not need or want to be a dictator - we've discussed many times the sports/chapters that caused all the current problems. You can't blame Dr. B for these issues.
I'd love to see the court ask for proof of this "OVERWHELMING BACKLASH BY SCHOOL SUPERS AND AD'S WHO WERE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY TASO CHAPTERS".
The court won't see that proof because it by and large does not exist. Anyone who thinks it does has drank the kool-aid. This was a knee-jerk reaction due to politics and a lack of leadership within both organizations. There were very few schools who complained, and those that did, failed to work for resolution through typical practices. Did UIL offer to listen to the chapters who decided to work within the grey areas of the old 1204 to create an increase in pay? Did they go to TASO's leadership and ask for their help in getting chapters in line? Did they exhaust ANY resources to try and work on the issue? The answers are NO, NO, and NO. They did what government power brokers do best...make a new rulebook that screws everyone to benefit a vocal minority. I blame Dr. Breithaup directly for this failure!
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This response will seem a bit off topic (or maybe the thread has been derailed and this is back to the OP).
The game I was at, the crew wore the hats. They did not seem to complain about wearing the hats, but I was not in the room when the hats were delivered, so I do not know what was said.
One thing I did find a little odd, there was something on the billboard that said "UIL STATE FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP", or something to that affect. Wouldnt that be Texas State Football Championship? I guess since you have TCAF, TCAL, etc.... anyways... incomplete thought to go with my incomplete sentence.
That is the extent of my input into this thread.
Thank You,
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A couple of years ago the officials in the 5A champinship games at Reliant wore a different hat. Can't remember if it had UIL on the front. Anybody in remember? FlAg1
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Guys, this horse has been beaten enough already. It is dead and needs to be buried. We have better things to worry about than who wore what hat last week.
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The main reason Dr. B supported the current UIL position was the overwhelming backlash by school supers and AD/s who were being held hostage by TASO chapters who threatened strikes and were negotiating their own fee structures - we all know these were not football chapters - however, we are TASO and suffered collateral damage. Dr. B does not need or want to be a dictator - we've discussed many times the sports/chapters that caused all the current problems. You can't blame Dr. B for these issues.
Overwhelming??? What? Very few of the 1000+ school superintendents had any issue with TASO or individual chapters. You could probably count them on one hand! Overwhelming? Whatever.
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I can assure you that your description is not completely accurate for each game or crew. I don't doubt what you are saying was the case for the game you witnessed but it was not the case for all games. I will agree with the general point of the comment that there was no undue pressure or coercion from the UIL to wear the hats. But there was also no pressure from TASO to not wear them. Because our fight is about much bigger issues than hats neither side (officially) made it a big deal and that's probably how we should leave it.
Last year at the 3A game at SMU, Dr B presented the caps and said "of course you don't have to wear them..."
Best regards,
Brad
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^flag
Even though they refused to wear them, the question still stands as to why the UIL hats were pilfered out of the Houston Chapter officials bags at the Saturday 4A D1 Championship game at JerryWorld? If they were given to these guys in good faith, why would anyone want to break into their bags and take them back? Are these UIL hats really that hot of a commodity? z^
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BEST post on this thread by fleetofoot!!!
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Trust me! We're way beyond any kind of beer summit with the Manor Road crowd!
I have a question, as a mostly amused (and entirely foreign) spectator. Assuming TASO wins the lawsuit in overwhelming fashion, is that going to mean that literally everyone at UIL who had any knowledge of this little happening is going to resign or get fired?
If not, I suggest that a beer summit is exactly what you need at this point (admittedly, perhaps not with the two people at the top of the pile, but UIL is surely more than two men, if only because they don't seem to be the kind of people who do their own correspondence), along the lines of "how can we work together in the future?" You're confident you're going to win in court, that's all well and good; but what happens next? If this victory comes at the expense of any positive relationship with anyone at UIL, anyone who might subsequently fill the top jobs, it may well turn out to be a pyrrhic one...
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I have a question, as a mostly amused (and entirely foreign) spectator. Assuming TASO wins the lawsuit in overwhelming fashion, is that going to mean that literally everyone at UIL who had any knowledge of this little happening is going to resign or get fired?
You don't understand how government agencies work over here do you? They will not be forced out nor will they resign.
If not, I suggest that a beer summit is exactly what you need at this point (admittedly, perhaps not with the two people at the top of the pile, but UIL is surely more than two men, if only because they don't seem to be the kind of people who do their own correspondence), along the lines of "how can we work together in the future?" You're confident you're going to win in court, that's all well and good; but what happens next? If this victory comes at the expense of any positive relationship with anyone at UIL, anyone who might subsequently fill the top jobs, it may well turn out to be a pyrrhic one...
If anybody can work with hard-headed, demanding, lunatics, it is officials. ;D We do it all the time. We will work fine with them as we go forward, as long as they stay where they belong.
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^flag
Even though they refused to wear them, the question still stands as to why the UIL hats were pilfered out of the Houston Chapter officials bags at the Saturday 4A D1 Championship game at JerryWorld? If they were given to these guys in good faith, why would anyone want to break into their bags and take them back? Are these UIL hats really that hot of a commodity? z^
Maybe this time, TT didn't use his own phone for the espionage, or at least was smart enough to .. I'm sorry, it is TT we are talking about, nothing smart about him... or at least was not hopelessly childish enough trespass in a locker room and dig through the personal property of officials. This is amazing. The entity that tells schools to provide a secure location believes they can violate those secure locations? Amazing. Can't wait to work for such an ethical, above the board organization! Make the North Korean's look honest and friendly.
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I have a question, as a mostly amused (and entirely foreign) spectator. Assuming TASO wins the lawsuit in overwhelming fashion, is that going to mean that literally everyone at UIL who had any knowledge of this little happening is going to resign or get fired?
If not, I suggest that a beer summit is exactly what you need at this point (admittedly, perhaps not with the two people at the top of the pile, but UIL is surely more than two men, if only because they don't seem to be the kind of people who do their own correspondence), along the lines of "how can we work together in the future?" You're confident you're going to win in court, that's all well and good; but what happens next? If this victory comes at the expense of any positive relationship with anyone at UIL, anyone who might subsequently fill the top jobs, it may well turn out to be a pyrrhic one...
^flag
Osric: TXMike is spot-on! Win , lose, or draw, the UIL is not going away. We all understand that. If TASO is fortunate enough to prevail against the UIL minions at the Federal Court level, then it will take 2 to 3 years for it to ever reach a trial jury, more especially with the Federal Court dockets backed up and with all of the vacant judgeships that need to be filled. Until then, the UIL and TASO will have to try to somehow cooperate with each other. But in light of the anticipated restraining orders that would, in all probability, be put in place against the UIL curtailing any officials organizing and registering activities on its part, there would absolutely be no desire on the part of the UIL egos involved to even begin any form of the negotiation process. But the bottom line would be that if TASO is successful, albeit so briefly, it would once again control its own destiny without having to worry about the immediate undue influence of the UIL.
Conversely, if TASO were not to prevail, then I'm afraid it would be "game, set, and match!" And then we would be at their total control, if not outright abolished and done away with. The egos in the leadership at the UIL will not allow for any kind of "beer summit." This was tried in principle after the Texas State Court dismissed the original lawsuit on a technicality. TASO had called for a private meeting with the UIL, but the Executive Director of the UIL arbitrarily and without permission invited members of the UIL Legislative Counsel among others and never even notified TASO in advance. Our TASO representatives felt rather waylaid by this show of force, thus conveying to TASO that the only negotiation the UIL was up to was pretty much "the UIL way or the highway!"
TASO remains in court because it is the only possible hope that they have for self-preservation. For more than 50 years, TASO has controlled(with advice and consent of the UIL) high school officiating activities within the State of Texas. The UIL, and more especially Dr. Breithaupt, wants to do away with TASO so they can then envelope all of this officiating directly within its domain for its own clandestine purposes, and have none to benefit the high school official. It's really just that simple! z^
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Overwhelming??? What? Very few of the 1000+ school superintendents had any issue with TASO or individual chapters. You could probably count them on one hand! Overwhelming? Whatever.
The Texas Association of School Administrators discussed the issue of "very few" chapters and decided as a whole to support UIL - so the actions of a few effected the whole bunch - that was my point. Do each and every super support UIL - I guess not - but their association that they are as proud of as some are of TASO has taken a stand. You can say the same for the Texas High Schol Athletic Directors Association and the Texas High School Coaches Association - all of which support UIL and its efforts to register officials. Their support was tentative until the issue of the "very few" chapters was brought up and they felt they all could be in the same boat if something was not done. Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts. I know the Assn of School Admins as fact - I'll leave it at that - the other assn's stances can be found on line.
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The point wasn't about trying to work with Breithaupt and Timmons, who are clearly beyond anything by now; but surely it's worth trying to establish friendly relations with the people who work under them, and/or those who would, in the fullness of time (etc.) succeed them? Breithaupt and Timmons may have job security in the medium term, but they won't be around until the end of time, and there's more to fighting a war than just the infantry on the front lines.
If all the UIL staff really are behind their bosses 100% and wouldn't be at all open to any TASO people being nice to them in any way, shape or form, then it seems like you're completely boned win lose or draw, because even when Timmons and Breithaupt pack themselves off you're still going to be dealing with the same attitudes trying smarter tactics; surely it pays in the end to attempt something to prevent this situation coming about?
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Hats, no hats...... really what difference does it make..... TASO created this problem 5 to 8 years with our lack of leadership at the top. Why did baseball and basketball have problems with the leadership??
Just a point of clarification.... Fort Worth had 4 games ... there was a 6 man game as well...
Officials were directed that they would not be covered by TASO insurance if they wore the hats....now come on.... is that right???? Strong arm tactics by TASO????
Weren't the hats worn just a couple of years ago..... where was the outrage then?? no one objected, heck they were just glad to be in the games. It they had been requested to wear pink tutu's they probably would have do so. We know that there are officials that would sell their mothers if they could get a championship game.
TASO has had problems.....look at our track record just over the past couple of years. If the company that you worked for had this track record, how would your customers looked at it.
TASO Executive Director quits or is fired... no replacement for approximately 18 months.... who is driving the ship??
TASO Football President resigns.....
TASO VP is removed from office
TASO offers to write a Texas rule book.......how crazy is that?
TASO fights with UIL over sub-varsity pay scales??
TASO officials file hundreds of incident reports with the UIL.....coaches go to Austin, what happens to the officials that kick the rules??? Schools want to know......
Accountability is definitely an issue with TASO...
The list goes on...... I've asked for a TASO Football financial report 3 or 4 times and I have yet to see one. I was told that one does exist but where it is? Yes, I know, I have added several other issues to the had discusson, but it all ties together with this TASO / UIL problems.
The hats are just the tip of the iceberg. We as officials have a choice. We can support TASO, or we can register with the UIL. Let's not forget something.... how many games has TASO assigned or given officials? Who's game is it....TASO's or the schools under the direction of the UIL?
sorry guys, off my soap box for now.... to me there are more important things than hats or on hats....
Merry Christmas to all !!!!
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Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts.
Again, assuming facts that are not in evidence. In fact, the THSCA has been silent on the issue. Their silence speaks volumes.
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Officials were directed that they would not be covered by TASO insurance if they wore the hats....now come on.... is that right???? Strong arm tactics by TASO????
You have prove of this ridiculous assertion?
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I have been told of the following statement, "Officials MAY NOT be covered by TASO insurance if the UIL hats are worn in the championship games."
Surely there was nothing put in an email that could be used as evidence, huh.
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I have been told of the following statement, "Officials MAY NOT be covered by TASO insurance if the UIL hats are worn in the championship games."
Surely there was nothing put in an email that could be used as evidence, huh.
^flag
Please feel free to put forth a TASO name who issued this statement or present a copy of the statement itself, if it is available! z^
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Again, assuming facts that are not in evidence. In fact, the THSCA has been silent on the issue. Their silence speaks volumes.
Volume 1: "Don't HACK Off Officials During the Football Season"
Volume 2: "How Not to be Called a Nazi and Coward With Your Team on the Field"
Volume 3: "How to Convice Officials the Game is Not About THEM"
Volume 4: "Now That The Season is Over - Our Support Will Go To UIL"
Volume 4 is already on the shelves - just not a big marketing push yet...
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You have prove of this ridiculous assertion?
Good point...now apply that process to the assertation that UIL went through officials locker and stole a hat! An unproven, unsubstantiated accusation that has gone unchallenged on this board. Seems to me that anything that reflects negatively on the UIL is just taken for fact and anything contrary to TASO's righteous cause is blasphemy!
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Good point...now apply that process to the assertation that UIL went through officials locker and stole a hat! An unproven, unsubstantiated accusation that has gone unchallenged on this board. Seems to me that anything that reflects negatively on the UIL is just taken for fact and anything contrary to TASO's righteous cause is blasphemy!
Just ask the White Hat that worked the game. He's got a good reputation and wouldn't exactly make stuff like that up! z^
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I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff. Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc.
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I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff. Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc.
BS...that's exactly the way it's been represented and until now, unchallenged.
Just ask the White Hat that worked the game. He's got a good reputation and wouldn't exactly make stuff like that up! z^
I'm sorry...is that supposed to make the accusation a fact? We're supposed to believe him? Can I believe what UhateMe says about the TASO insurance deal?
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@HAshley.........you are dead on!
All of this is what it is and the initial conclusion was the UIL took the hats or ordered them removed.
I clearly said what I had HEARD. Judgement is not mine on this one but the truth is not flexible.
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
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@HAshley.........you are dead on!
All of this is what it is and the initial conclusion was the UIL took the hats or ordered them removed.
I clearly said what I had HEARD. Judgement is not mine on this one but the truth is not flexible.
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
Did you hear it from the guy who had been told not to wear the hat or else? If so, what game did he work. We can reach out to him just like you can reach out to the Houston R if you don't believe it.
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The Texas Association of School Administrators discussed the issue of "very few" chapters and decided as a whole to support UIL - so the actions of a few effected the whole bunch - that was my point. Do each and every super support UIL - I guess not - but their association that they are as proud of as some are of TASO has taken a stand. You can say the same for the Texas High Schol Athletic Directors Association and the Texas High School Coaches Association - all of which support UIL and its efforts to register officials. Their support was tentative until the issue of the "very few" chapters was brought up and they felt they all could be in the same boat if something was not done. Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts. I know the Assn of School Admins as fact - I'll leave it at that - the other assn's stances can be found on line.
Being a son of a man who was a school superintendent for 20+ years, I can assure you, they really do not care that much about this issue, nor are they well informed about it, nor do many at all have any issues with officials or pay or what organization they belong to. They just want their games covered and a budget they can foresee, understand, and live with. Outside of that, they have way too many other issues to deal with. That's why the UIL pushes their rule down the throats of the LC so easily. UIL issues are just not very big in the overall scheme of things and the UIL has always got their way. The UIL is pushing this, not a couple of school sups my friend. You can hang your hat on that one.
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BS...that's exactly the way it's been represented and until now, unchallenged.
I'm sorry...is that supposed to make the accusation a fact? We're supposed to believe him? Can I believe what UhateMe says about the TASO insurance deal?
Maybe you interpreted it that way but I certainly did not. The complaint I saw was that the UIL-run event did not provide a secure locker room for the officials.
We know the identify of the person who worjked the game where the bag was gone through. He is available for your verification if you choose to do so. We DO NOT know the identity of the person who was ALLEGEDLY told not to wear the hat nor do we know who ALLEGEDLY said it. If we knew either we could independently verify.
If it is proven this stupid comment was made by anyone officially representing TASO, I will resign from TASO and become the biggest UIL butt-boy you can find. Bring it!
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I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff. Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc.
Word games - everyone who reads this thread knows the inference was that UIL stole the hats back because they were not worn - multiple posts by z^ especially - no one questioned it.
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Maybe you interpreted it that way but I certainly did not. The complaint I saw was that the UIL-run event did not provide a secure locker room for the officials.
We know the identify of the person who worjked the game where the bag was gone through. He is available for your verification if you choose to do so. We DO NOT know the identity of the person who was ALLEGEDLY told not to wear the hat nor do we know who ALLEGEDLY said it. If we knew either we could independently verify.
If it is proven this stupid comment was made by anyone officially representing TASO, I will resign from TASO and become the biggest UIL butt-boy you can find. Bring it!
I didn't interp it as fact just like I won't give credence to the statement about the insurance. My point is that anything that brings question to TASO credibility has the dogs released but anything that questions the UIL's credibility is glossed over. To some extent, I can understand the reactions because the UIL certainly does not have an honest track record, however, I see nothing to support the UIL resorting to petty theft. Weither someone blatantly accused the UIL of this act is irrelivent, the post on this matter have been made to represent that stance.
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The clue phone is ringing off the hook!
Surely we all know the only way to gain proof someone said something is to get them to admit it. With all the backstabbing and lies between the UIL and TASO, is there anyone willing to do that? Wondering if we are all idiots to think anyone associated has the stones to tell the truth.
With allegiance to TASO / SOA for many years, the comment was wrong and surprising to me. It matters not to me what is believed but knowledge is power. Facts are simple, sometimes painful and always dependable when straight.
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Just let me know who had it said to them. I can determine from talking to them if it is true or not.
Since this thing is in court now I would think EVERYONE would be on their toes to be honest about what was said or done since it is all likely to come out in court.
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Well put all the TASO/Uil stuff on the back burner for just a minute, I want to wish everyone a very merry Christmas and Happy New Year. We all have things in our lives to be thankful for. I would like all my officiating brethren to take time during these holidays to thank a solider. sailor or airman for serving. Because there is no lonelier time than spending the holidays away from your loved one in a combat environment. Ive done my time and thank all the personal that are currently serving from one vet to another Thank You. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.
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Being a son of a man who was a school superintendent for 20+ years, I can assure you, they really do not care that much about this issue, nor are they well informed about it, nor do many at all have any issues with officials or pay or what organization they belong to. They just want their games covered and a budget they can foresee, understand, and live with. Outside of that, they have way too many other issues to deal with. That's why the UIL pushes their rule down the throats of the LC so easily. UIL issues are just not very big in the overall scheme of things and the UIL has always got their way. The UIL is pushing this, not a couple of school sups my friend. You can hang your hat on that one.
You are 100% correct. The Supts here didn't have a clue what was going on. Things are crammed at them and "reccommended" so they just follow the UIL. The one here said if he would have known what they were really doing he would not have just voted "yes" because that's what the UIL suggested. It was his feeling that the vast majority of of Supts. did the same thing. They were informed of what was going on. Had the Supts. been aware this who thing would have never been allowed.
As for the AD's. I sat in a meeting where the President of the Athletic Directors Assoc. came right out and told TASO during the meeting that they support TASO, but they couldn't put it on record becase they feared what the UIL may do to. He was then informed that he didn't work for the UIL, but that the UIL worked for them.
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Word games - everyone who reads this thread knows the inference was that UIL stole the hats back because they were not worn - multiple posts by z^ especially - no one questioned it.
^flag
To reiterate, I can only say to ask the Referee of the game. Or maybe you're a tad bothered by what he or his crew members might relate to you! In any event, the biggest issue that I can see here is a serious lack of security for the officials dressing room, which should have been the UIL's sole responsibility, UIL hats or no hats! z^
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^flag
Now that is really one ethical act! Who would have had access to the Cowboy Stadium officials locker room other than the game officials? Someone from the UIL perhaps? From your report, it appears that the hats were, in fact, "given" to the Houston officials but sometime during their absence from the locker room, the said hats that had been placed in the officials bags by the game officials somehow just up and walked away! Did Mr. Timmons or any other UIL personnel that was present have some kind of a skeleton key to that particular locker room?
While initially sounding a little bit like pilfering, the greater concern here is that some individual or individuals broke the sanctity of and entered that officials locker room and thereby, in all probability, is guilty of breaking and entering. This should have been immediately reported to Cowboy Stadium Security as well as the local policing authority which was the City of Arlington PD. Someone really needs to be asked some hard and pointed questions about this most unfortunate occurence! z^
Your quote above is the example of what I'm talking about and how complete conjecture is twisted to form a predetermined outcome. Subtract the first part of your quote and you sound like a logical, rational individual. The first part included, you sound as bad as ornery1 and some of the garbage he spews.
Weither what happened is true or not the subject really has no place here just like the accusations about the former TASO Football Pres have no place. I don't need to hear anything from the White Hat to know this. If there was a break-in, I hope that the crew filed proper reports to include police AND UIL Incident Report. The issue should be left at that.
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Good luck with the uil incident report if you are not a registered uil official
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Good luck with the uil incident report if you are not a registered uil official
Submit through your chapter and TASO. If the UIL don't accept it or act on it, then it becomes another bullet in favor of the officials. That's how we win the war of opinions... with integrity. That's how we gain the ethical high ground. Let the UIL continue to be caught in lies and backtracking.
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Gentlemen
I worked the 2A final and was one of the officials that did not wear a UIL hats, we had a liaison that did not pressure us to wear the hats and in fact knew that we would not wear the hats, the funny thing is that the hat that the referee was suppose to wear looked like it had a coffee stain on it. The hat was new but my point is that the UIL had a good idea who would be wearing hats and who would not be wearing them. The problem that I had was that Timmons contacted my referee on Thur telling him that they would would have hats available. To do this 2 days before the game was wrong, I know that he felt pressured to wear the hats and contacted many of the officers of the chapter having concern about what to do? The crew discussed the issue for about 10 seconds and the thought of wearing the hats never had a chance, I will admit the I am the culprit for wearing the under armor hat and I made a mistake, I use this hat for college and it was a genuine mistake. I hope that we can remain independent from the UIL, the number of officials that will leave if the UIL takes over could set back officiating in the State of Texas for many years and it is unfortunate that Timmons or Breitupt don't see the results that could come from these actions. To say that it was honor to work a State Championship game is an understatement and I feel fortunate and blessed that I was given this opportunity but I can say that our crew earned it throughout the season and years, and in all that time I never wore a UIL cap for sub-varsity or varsity games so to start wearing a hat at that point in time did not make sense.
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^flag
To reiterate, I can only say to ask the Referee of the game. Or maybe you're a tad bothered by what he or his crew members might relate to you! In any event, the biggest issue that I can see here is a serious lack of security for the officials dressing room, which should have been the UIL's sole responsibility, UIL hats or no hats! z^
I disagree, on site security is the responsibility of the host ( game administration) either Mansfield ISD or Jerry World is responsible for the locker room security.
Rick
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I disagree, on site security is the responsibility of the host ( game administration) either Mansfield ISD or Jerry World is responsible for the locker room security.
Rick
^flag
And since the UIL is the chief contracting party with both JerryWorld and the Mansfield ISD, wouldn't they logically bear some of the responsibilty primarily because they are the agency solely in charge of sponsoring the events that they had contracted to do? z^
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^flag
And since the UIL is the chief contracting party with both JerryWorld and the Mansfield ISD, wouldn't they logically bear some of the responsibilty primarily because they are the agency solely in charge of sponsoring the events that they had contracted to do? z^
Sure...if you think Tostitos is somewhat responsible for thieves breaking into your car in the parking lot during the Fiesta Bowl.
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Bad analogy. He is not saying State Farm is psartly responsible for anything at the UIL games. But the Fiesta Bowl org committee does have some responsibility for things at the Fiesta Bowl
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Bad analogy. He is not saying State Farm is psartly responsible for anything at the UIL games. But the Fiesta Bowl org committee does have some responsibility for things at the Fiesta Bowl
OK, how about the NCAA being somewhat responsible for you car at the Fiesta Bowl?
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Sure...if you think Tostitos is somewhat responsible for thieves breaking into your car in the parking lot during the Fiesta Bowl.
^flag
Totally bad analogy! There's a marked difference between the paying public having their cars broken into , and the proverbial officials dressing room where the contracting authorities would be expected to exercise some reasonable element of control over! z^
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I have done a game at Cowboy Stadium. We had an attendant who had the key to the officials dressing room. We did not have access unless he let us in. He sat outside the door the entire time we were there. However, anyone with an all access pass could get in. I would point out that there are three dressing areas that the other crews used to dress and the chain crew uses.
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Really!? Some of you need to find something else to do...
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Really!? Some of you need to find something else to do...
Why are you here?
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I was TOLD this is the best place to talk officiating, I'm still waiting for some to be discussed...
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Which rulebook do you officiate under? Be it NCAA or Federation, there are specific forums within this site for each and you will find no better open discussions anywhere.
http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0
http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0
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Hopefully no one belives that wearing a UIL hat would have been cause of that person not being covered by our insurance First I don't can't and won't believe anyone with TASO would do that. Second TASO is not the insurance company TASO buys insurance from an insurance company TASO can not approve or deny a claim that would be 100% in the insurance company hands. On the same note I don't belive anyone with UIL would be so childish as to go take back the hats. But it does call for an investigation as to who went into the Officials Locker Room and went into thier bags/lockers. If it were me i'd be worried they got into my wallet and stole my credit card information drivers liscense and stole my identity.
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Oh, I can assure you that without a doubt that a certain District Director emailed out a few crews "of choice" to attempt to scare a few crews into NOT wearing the UIL hats by stating "Remember, you are under TASO insurance". If Fitch tries to deny this, I'll copy and paste the email! Fitch nor Fecci didnt send it (wonder why), but instead as usual used their selected people to do it for them. The email stated basically about being out of TASO uniform and being reminded about TASO insurance coverage if they chose to wear them. TASO at its best as usual! Talk about being on its last leg and grasping at everything!!!
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I would like to see this email yEs:
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Oh, I can assure you that without a doubt that a certain District Director emailed out a few crews "of choice" to attempt to scare a few crews into NOT wearing the UIL hats by stating "Remember, you are under TASO insurance". If Fitch tries to deny this, I'll copy and paste the email! Fitch nor Fecci didnt send it (wonder why), but instead as usual used their selected people to do it for them. The email stated basically about being out of TASO uniform and being reminded about TASO insurance coverage if they chose to wear them. TASO at its best as usual! Talk about being on its last leg and grasping at everything!!!
Well if Fitch or Fecci did not send, who did?
Post the damn thing so we can see for ourselves. Then we can contact the sender of the supposed email and see if it is true or not.
All of this "I know something you don't know" is like a bunch of teenage girls. If you have information put it here if not STFU.
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I do not doubt there may have been an email reminding people about the approved uniform. Perhaps whomever received it read more into it? Did you get the email or even see it? Who was the Dist Director?
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I was TOLD this is the best place to talk officiating, I'm still waiting for some to be discussed...
Instead of whinning about this, why don't you start a thread in another section that has a topic of which you approve.
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I was TOLD this is the best place to talk officiating, I'm still waiting for some to be discussed...
Just like TV and radio, you are free to change the channel and watch / read what you want. Any simpleton (uil, ornery, tt, etc) can tell which posts are related to officiating and which ones are related to the TASO / uil situation. Even a "blind ref" can figure out which ones will provide the content you want.
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I was TOLD this is the best place to talk officiating, I'm still waiting for some to be discussed...
Zebra27, if you want to talk about officiating, I suggest you stay away from the State Specific Board. The UIL and TASO can barely talk to each other, and when they do, it seems it's rarely about officiating. ;)
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I'm starting to get that impression Grant....
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Oh, I can assure you that without a doubt that a certain District Director emailed out a few crews "of choice" to attempt to scare a few crews into NOT wearing the UIL hats by stating "Remember, you are under TASO insurance". If Fitch tries to deny this, I'll copy and paste the email! Fitch nor Fecci didnt send it (wonder why), but instead as usual used their selected people to do it for them. The email stated basically about being out of TASO uniform and being reminded about TASO insurance coverage if they chose to wear them. TASO at its best as usual! Talk about being on its last leg and grasping at everything!!!
What you wear has no bearing on the coverage TASO's insurance carrier provides. You purchased this insurance through dues and therefore are covered all year as long as you officiate a sport covered in the insurance. Example Alumni games are not usually assigned by chapter but chapter officals call the games and since it is not a PRO legaue you are covered by insuarnce. Seems like a bad rumor or bad judgement by a district rep.
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Even a "blind ref" can figure out which ones will provide the content you want.
Thanks!
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Thanks!
Always glad to give a shout out where due.
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I was just made aware of this chat site today and registered to read and comment. I have enjoyed reading many of your comments and opinions. I was one of the officials in the last game of the day and in reference to the UIL hat, i just wanted it as a keep sake. We were not swayed one way or the other as to wearing the hat. A comment was made in the locker room about if you do not wish to wear the hat please leave them on your seat to be taken up, by whom i do not remember " I have slept since then". As far as how they looked, idc, the only opinion that i listened to that day was my boss!! (wife) she said i looked HOT!!! look forward to reading more posts and good luck to everyone in the regular and post seasons.
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I was just made aware of this chat site today and registered to read and comment. I have enjoyed reading many of your comments and opinions. I was one of the officials in the last game of the day and in reference to the UIL hat, i just wanted it as a keep sake. We were not swayed one way or the other as to wearing the hat. A comment was made in the locker room about if you do not wish to wear the hat please leave them on your seat to be taken up, by whom i do not remember " I have slept since then". As far as how they looked, idc, the only opinion that i listened to that day was my boss!! (wife) she said i looked HOT!!! look forward to reading more posts and good luck to everyone in the regular and post seasons.
^flag
Reckoning that we can start calling those things :bOW "Manor Road Souvenir Hot-Hats!" tiphat: :!#
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I was just made aware of this chat site today and registered to read and comment. I have enjoyed reading many of your comments and opinions. I was one of the officials in the last game of the day and in reference to the UIL hat, i just wanted it as a keep sake. We were not swayed one way or the other as to wearing the hat. A comment was made in the locker room about if you do not wish to wear the hat please leave them on your seat to be taken up, by whom i do not remember " I have slept since then". As far as how they looked, idc, the only opinion that i listened to that day was my boss!! (wife) she said i looked HOT!!! look forward to reading more posts and good luck to everyone in the regular and post seasons.
You wore the hat just because you wanted to keep it? Um, I'm sure you could have bought one somewhere. Some of our TASO brethren need to grow some testicular fortitude and say no, we will comply with TASO's uniform policy.