UIL Hats...to wear or not to wear, that is the argument.

[Cooter]

Overwhelming???  What?  Very few of the 1000+ school superintendents had any issue with TASO or individual chapters.  You could probably count them on one hand!  Overwhelming?  Whatever.

The Texas Association of School Administrators discussed the issue of "very few" chapters and decided as a whole to support UIL - so the actions of a few effected the whole bunch - that was my point.  Do each and every super support UIL - I guess not - but their association that they are as proud of as some are of TASO has taken a stand.  You can say the same for the Texas High Schol Athletic Directors Association and the Texas High School Coaches Association - all of which support UIL and its efforts to register officials.  Their support was tentative until the issue of the "very few" chapters was brought up and they felt they all could be in the same boat if something was not done.  Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts.  I know the Assn of School Admins as fact - I'll leave it at that - the other assn's stances can be found on line. 

[Osric Pureheart]

The point wasn't about trying to work with Breithaupt and Timmons, who are clearly beyond anything by now; but surely it's worth trying to establish friendly relations with the people who work under them, and/or those who would, in the fullness of time (etc.) succeed them?  Breithaupt and Timmons may have job security in the medium term, but they won't be around until the end of time, and there's more to fighting a war than just the infantry on the front lines.

If all the UIL staff really are behind their bosses 100% and wouldn't be at all open to any TASO people being nice to them in any way, shape or form, then it seems like you're completely boned win lose or draw, because even when Timmons and Breithaupt pack themselves off you're still going to be dealing with the same attitudes trying smarter tactics; surely it pays in the end to attempt something to prevent this situation coming about?

[Catamount]

Hats, no hats...... really what difference does it make..... TASO created this problem 5 to 8 years with our lack of leadership at the top. Why did baseball and basketball have problems with the leadership??
Just a point of clarification.... Fort Worth had 4 games ... there was a 6 man game as well...
Officials were directed that they would not be covered by TASO insurance if they wore the hats....now come on.... is that right? Strong arm tactics by TASO?
Weren't the hats worn just a couple of years ago..... where was the outrage then?? no one objected, heck they were just glad to be in the games. It they had been requested to wear pink tutu's they probably would have do so. We know that there are officials that would sell their mothers if they could get a championship game.
TASO has had problems.....look at our track record just over the past couple of years. If the company that you worked for had this track record, how would your customers looked at it.
TASO Executive Director quits or is fired... no replacement for approximately 18 months.... who is driving the ship??
TASO Football President resigns.....
TASO VP is removed from office
TASO offers to write a Texas rule book.......how crazy is that?
TASO fights with UIL over sub-varsity pay scales??
TASO officials file hundreds of incident reports with the UIL.....coaches go to Austin, what happens to the officials that kick the rules??? Schools want to know......
Accountability is definitely an issue with TASO...

The list goes on...... I've asked for a TASO Football financial report 3 or 4 times and I have yet to see one. I was told that one does exist but where it is? Yes, I know, I have added several other issues to the had discusson, but it all ties together with this TASO / UIL problems.

The hats are just the tip of the iceberg. We as officials have a choice. We can support TASO, or we can register with the UIL. Let's not forget something.... how many games has TASO assigned or given officials? Who's game is it....TASO's or the schools under the direction of the UIL?
sorry guys, off my soap box for now.... to me there are more important things than hats or on hats....
Merry Christmas to all !!!!

[TXMike]

Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts. 

Again, assuming facts that are not in evidence.  In fact, the THSCA has been silent on the issue.  Their silence speaks volumes.

[TXMike]

Officials were directed that they would not be covered by TASO insurance if they wore the hats....now come on.... is that right? Strong arm tactics by TASO?

You have prove of this ridiculous assertion?

[UHateMe]

I have been told of the following statement, "Officials MAY NOT be covered by TASO insurance if the UIL hats are worn in the championship games."

Surely there was nothing put in an email that could be used as evidence, huh.

[Arbitrator]

I have been told of the following statement, "Officials MAY NOT be covered by TASO insurance if the UIL hats are worn in the championship games."

Surely there was nothing put in an email that could be used as evidence, huh.

 

Please feel free to put forth a TASO name who issued this statement or present a copy of the statement itself, if it is available!   

[Cooter]

Again, assuming facts that are not in evidence.  In fact, the THSCA has been silent on the issue.  Their silence speaks volumes.

Volume 1:  "Don't HACK Off Officials During the Football Season"
Volume 2:  "How Not to be Called a Nazi and Coward With Your Team on the Field"
Volume 3: "How to Convice Officials the Game is Not About THEM"
Volume 4: "Now That The Season is Over - Our Support Will Go To UIL"

Volume 4 is already on the shelves - just not a big marketing push yet...

[HAshleyTX]

You have prove of this ridiculous assertion?

Good point...now apply that process to the assertation that UIL went through officials locker and stole a hat!  An unproven, unsubstantiated accusation that has gone unchallenged on this board.  Seems to me that anything that reflects negatively on the UIL is just taken for fact and anything contrary to TASO's righteous cause is blasphemy! 

[Arbitrator]

Good point...now apply that process to the assertation that UIL went through officials locker and stole a hat!  An unproven, unsubstantiated accusation that has gone unchallenged on this board.  Seems to me that anything that reflects negatively on the UIL is just taken for fact and anything contrary to TASO's righteous cause is blasphemy! 

Just ask the White Hat that worked the game. He's got a good reputation and wouldn't exactly make stuff like that up!   

[TXMike]

I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff.  Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc. 

[HAshleyTX]

I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff.  Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc. 

BS...that's exactly the way it's been represented and until now, unchallenged.

Just ask the White Hat that worked the game. He's got a good reputation and wouldn't exactly make stuff like that up!   

I'm sorry...is that supposed to make the accusation a fact?  We're supposed to believe him?   Can I believe what UhateMe says about the TASO insurance deal?

[UHateMe]

@HAshley.........you are dead on!

All of this is what it is and the initial conclusion was the UIL took the hats or ordered them removed.

I clearly said what I had HEARD.  Judgement is not mine on this one but the truth is not flexible.

But why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

[TXMike]

@HAshley.........you are dead on!

All of this is what it is and the initial conclusion was the UIL took the hats or ordered them removed.

I clearly said what I had HEARD.  Judgement is not mine on this one but the truth is not flexible.

But why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

Did you hear it from the guy who had been told not to wear the hat or else?  If so, what game did he work.  We can reach out to him just like you can reach out to the Houston R if you don't believe it.

[TexDoc]

The Texas Association of School Administrators discussed the issue of "very few" chapters and decided as a whole to support UIL - so the actions of a few effected the whole bunch - that was my point.  Do each and every super support UIL - I guess not - but their association that they are as proud of as some are of TASO has taken a stand.  You can say the same for the Texas High Schol Athletic Directors Association and the Texas High School Coaches Association - all of which support UIL and its efforts to register officials.  Their support was tentative until the issue of the "very few" chapters was brought up and they felt they all could be in the same boat if something was not done.  Call it kool-aid if you want - but every Texas association relating to high school football, with the exception of TASO of course, supports the UIL's efforts.  I know the Assn of School Admins as fact - I'll leave it at that - the other assn's stances can be found on line. 

Being a son of a man who was a school superintendent for 20+ years, I can assure you, they really do not care that much about this issue, nor are they well informed about it, nor do many at all have any issues with officials or pay or what organization they belong to.  They just want their games covered and a budget they can foresee, understand, and live with.  Outside of that, they have way too many other issues to deal with.  That's why the UIL pushes their rule down the throats of the LC so easily.  UIL issues are just not very big in the overall scheme of things and the UIL has always got their way.  The UIL is pushing this, not a couple of school sups my friend.  You can hang your hat on that one.

[TXMike]

BS...that's exactly the way it's been represented and until now, unchallenged.

I'm sorry...is that supposed to make the accusation a fact?  We're supposed to believe him?   Can I believe what UhateMe says about the TASO insurance deal?

Maybe you interpreted it that way but I certainly did not.  The complaint I saw was that the UIL-run event did not provide a secure locker room for the officials.  

We know the identify of the person who worjked the game where the bag was gone through.  He is available for your verification if you choose to do so.  We DO NOT know the identity of the person who was ALLEGEDLY told not to wear the hat nor do we know who ALLEGEDLY said it.  If we knew either we could independently verify.  

If it is proven this stupid comment was made by anyone officially representing TASO, I will resign from TASO and become the biggest UIL butt-boy you can find.   Bring it!

[Cooter]

I don't think anyone said UIL went through the official's stuff.  Could have been anyone with access to the room, I.e. Other officials, chain crew, facility personnel, etc. 

Word games - everyone who reads this thread knows the inference was that UIL stole the hats back because they were not worn - multiple posts by  especially - no one questioned it.

[HAshleyTX]

Maybe you interpreted it that way but I certainly did not.  The complaint I saw was that the UIL-run event did not provide a secure locker room for the officials. 

We know the identify of the person who worjked the game where the bag was gone through.  He is available for your verification if you choose to do so.  We DO NOT know the identity of the person who was ALLEGEDLY told not to wear the hat nor do we know who ALLEGEDLY said it.  If we knew either we could independently verify. 

If it is proven this stupid comment was made by anyone officially representing TASO, I will resign from TASO and become the biggest UIL butt-boy you can find.   Bring it!

I didn't interp it as fact just like I won't give credence to the statement about the insurance.  My point is that anything that brings question to TASO credibility has the dogs released but anything that questions the UIL's credibility is glossed over.  To some extent, I can understand the reactions because the UIL certainly does not have an honest track record, however, I see nothing to support the UIL resorting to petty theft. Weither someone blatantly accused the UIL of this act is irrelivent, the post on this matter have been made to represent that stance.

[UHateMe]

The clue phone is ringing off the hook!

Surely we all know the only way to gain proof someone said something is to get them to admit it.  With all the backstabbing and lies between the UIL and TASO, is there anyone willing to do that?  Wondering if we are all idiots to think anyone associated has the stones to tell the truth.

With allegiance to TASO / SOA for many years, the comment was wrong and surprising to me.  It matters not to me what is believed but knowledge is power.  Facts are simple, sometimes painful and always dependable when straight.

[TXMike]

Just let me know who had it said to them.  I can determine from talking to them if it is true or not.

Since this thing is in court now I would think EVERYONE would be on their toes to be honest about what was said or done since it is all likely to come out in court.

[williebe]

Well put all the TASO/Uil stuff on the back burner for just a minute, I want to wish everyone a very merry Christmas and Happy New Year. We all have things in our lives to be thankful for. I would like all my officiating brethren to take time during these holidays to thank a solider. sailor or airman for serving. Because there is no lonelier time than spending the holidays away from your loved one in a combat environment. Ive done my time and thank all the personal that are currently serving from one vet to another Thank You. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.

[JasonTX]

Being a son of a man who was a school superintendent for 20+ years, I can assure you, they really do not care that much about this issue, nor are they well informed about it, nor do many at all have any issues with officials or pay or what organization they belong to.  They just want their games covered and a budget they can foresee, understand, and live with.  Outside of that, they have way too many other issues to deal with.  That's why the UIL pushes their rule down the throats of the LC so easily.  UIL issues are just not very big in the overall scheme of things and the UIL has always got their way.  The UIL is pushing this, not a couple of school sups my friend.  You can hang your hat on that one.

You are 100% correct.  The Supts here didn't have a clue what was going on.  Things are crammed at them and "reccommended" so they just follow the UIL.  The one here said if he would have known what they were really doing he would not have just voted "yes" because that's what the UIL suggested.  It was his feeling that the vast majority of of Supts. did the same thing.  They were informed of what was going on.  Had the Supts. been aware this who thing would have never been allowed.

As for the AD's.  I sat in a meeting where the President of the Athletic Directors Assoc. came right out and told TASO during the meeting that they support TASO, but they couldn't put it on record becase they feared what the UIL may do to.  He was then informed that he didn't work for the UIL, but that the UIL worked for them.

[Arbitrator]

Word games - everyone who reads this thread knows the inference was that UIL stole the hats back because they were not worn - multiple posts by   especially - no one questioned it.

 

To reiterate, I can only say to ask the Referee of the game. Or maybe you're a tad bothered by what he or his crew members might relate to you! In any event, the biggest issue that I can see here is a serious lack of security for the officials dressing room, which should have been the UIL's sole responsibility, UIL hats or no hats!  

[HAshleyTX]

Now that is really one ethical act! Who would have had access to the Cowboy Stadium officials locker room other than the game officials? Someone from the UIL perhaps? From your report, it appears that the hats were, in fact, "given" to the Houston officials but sometime during their absence from the locker room, the said hats that had been placed in the officials bags by the game officials somehow just up and walked away! Did Mr. Timmons or any other UIL personnel that was present have some kind of a skeleton key to that particular locker room?

While initially sounding a little bit like pilfering, the greater concern here is that some individual or individuals broke the sanctity of and entered that officials locker room and thereby, in all probability, is guilty of breaking and entering. This should have been immediately reported to Cowboy Stadium Security as well as the local policing authority which was the City of Arlington PD. Someone really needs to be asked some hard and pointed questions about this most unfortunate occurence!  

Your quote above is the example of what I'm talking about and how complete conjecture is twisted to form a predetermined outcome.  Subtract the first part of your quote and you sound like a logical, rational individual.  The first part included, you sound as bad as ornery1 and some of the garbage he spews.

Weither what happened is true or not the subject really has no place here just like the accusations about the former TASO Football Pres have no place.  I don't need to hear anything from the White Hat to know this.  If there was a break-in, I hope that the crew filed proper reports to include police AND UIL Incident Report.  The issue should be left at that. 

[TXMike]

Good luck with the uil incident report if you are not a registered uil official