Author Topic: 2018 NCAA Rules Test  (Read 3487 times)

Offline RS

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2018 NCAA Rules Test
« on: June 26, 2018, 09:18:47 AM »
Anyone have any idea when the 2018 test will be open?

Seems like it's about that time.

Offline TxBJ

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 04:09:42 PM »
 Ask and ye shall receive. It just went up.

Offline FBOfficialSJ

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 09:20:22 PM »
Can someone please post a copy.

Offline sj

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2018, 10:13:58 PM »
2018 test pdf

Online ElvisLives

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2018 NCAA Rules Test - suspected "typo"
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2018, 09:37:13 PM »
While a free kick is in the air, B21 gives valid fair catch signal at the B-5. In an attempt to catch the kick at the A-5, B21 muffs the ball and the ball strikes the ground and rolls to the B-7 where B21 recovers the ball with both knees on the ground.
a. The ball is dead when recovered and belongs to Team B at the B-5.
b. The ball is dead when recovered, and belongs to Team B at the B-7.
c. The ball is dead when recovered. Team B’s ball 1st and 10 at the 25-yard line.
d. The ball is dead when recovered. Team B’s ball 1st and 10 at the 20 yard-line.

I'm pretty sure "A-5" is supposed to be B-5.  Interesting thought, though...  A really odd kick, and a really fast B21.   ;D

Online ElvisLives

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Another interesting typo
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2018, 11:31:13 AM »
"Receiver B88 signals for a first catch while the ball is..."

"First" catch.  Interesting typo.  Gets me to thinking, and that's dangerous.

Online ElvisLives

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This one bothers me
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2018, 12:38:44 PM »
The available answers for this one bother me.

Fourth and 13 at the A-37. The punt bounces at the B-5 high into the air. After the ball breaks the goal line plane, A37 bats that ball back into the field of play and out-of-bounds at the B-2. During the kick, A40 commits a holding foul at the B-8 while trying to prevent B80 from getting to the kick.
a. Team B, first and 10 from the B-30.
b. Team B, first and 10 from the B-12.
c. Team B, first and 10 from the B-20.
d. Team A, fourth and 23 at the A-27.
e. a and d are the only options.
f. b, c and d are all valid options.

"a" is the most likely option (ITK in the end zone gives the ball to B at the B-20, and the holding penalty can be enforced there, taking the ball to the B-30).
  "a" is not an option, by rule.

"b" is unreasonable, but possible, if B did not exercise the ITK in the end zone privilege, and enforced the holding penalty from the B-2.

"c" is unreasonable, but possible, if B took the ITK in the end zone privilege, taking the ball at the B-20, and declining the holding penalty.

"d" is unlikely, but potentially reasonable, depending on time & score; B does not exercise the ITK in the end zone privilege, and enforces the holding penalty at the previous spot (which requires the down to be repeated).

"e" is not correct, because "a" and "d" are is not the ONLY an option. optionsthey may be the only reasonable, options, but they are not the only options.

"f" is correct, in that those options are, in fact, "valid" options, if "valid" means they are technically available.  If, in this case, "valid" means "reasonable," then this answer is incorrect.

I'm going with "f", but I don't like the question.

Robert

 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 03:21:41 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline bossman72

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2018, 01:03:10 PM »
The available answers for this one bother me.

Fourth and 13 at the A-37. The punt bounces at the B-5 high into the air. After the ball breaks the goal line plane, A37 bats that ball back into the field of play and out-of-bounds at the B-2. During the kick, A40 commits a holding foul at the B-8 while trying to prevent B80 from getting to the kick.
a. Team B, first and 10 from the B-30.
b. Team B, first and 10 from the B-12.
c. Team B, first and 10 from the B-20.
d. Team A, fourth and 23 at the A-27.
e. a and d are the only options.
f. b, c and d are all valid options.

"a" is the most likely option (ITK in the end zone gives the ball to B at the B-20, and the holding penalty can be enforced there, taking the ball to the B-30).

"b" is unreasonable, but possible, if B did not exercise the ITK in the end zone privilege, and enforced the holding penalty from the B-2.

"c" is unreasonable, but possible, if B took the ITK in the end zone privilege, taking the ball at the B-20, and declining the holding penalty.

"d" is unlikely, but potentially reasonable, depending on time & score; B does not exercise the ITK in the end zone privilege, and enforces the holding penalty at the previous spot (which requires the down to be repeated).

"e" is not correct, because "a" and "d" are not the ONLY options;  they may be the only reasonable, options, but they are not the only options.

"f" is correct, in that those options are, in fact, "valid" options, if "valid" means they are technically available.  If, in this case, "valid" means "reasonable," then this answer is incorrect.

I'm going with "f", but I don't like the question.

Robert

 

The answer is "F".

A few years ago, they changed the rule regarding ITK in the end zone.  Accepting A's holding foul cancels ITK.  So you can either tack on from the B2 or enforce at previous spot and replay.

Therefore, answer "A" is incorrect.

Had it been a Team B foul, then you use the 20 as your PSK spot.  Weird, I know...

Offline Kalle

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2018, 02:07:05 PM »
The answer is "F".

A few years ago, they changed the rule regarding ITK in the end zone.  Accepting A's holding foul cancels ITK.  So you can either tack on from the B2 or enforce at previous spot and replay.

Therefore, answer "A" is incorrect.

Had it been a Team B foul, then you use the 20 as your PSK spot.  Weird, I know...

This is pretty much A.R. 6-3-11-V (2017 book).

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2018, 02:53:33 PM »
Concur on answer "a" not being a correct option.  But, the question is still very ambiguous.  Technically, b, c, and d could all happen, but only d is potentially reasonable.  If valid means technically available, then yes, "f" is correct. If it means reasonable, then no.

But, I'm sticking with "f."

Robert

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2018, 06:10:04 PM »
If b is a “valid option” then why wouldn’t both a and b be correct for #1?

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2018, 06:52:13 PM »
If b is a “valid option” then why wouldn’t both a and b be correct for #1?

Your #1 may be different than others.  The questions are shuffled.
Robert

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2018, 07:19:03 PM »
Not on the pdf they’re not.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2018, 09:03:22 PM »
Well, then, agreed - this is another example of a glitch in the questions.

Robert

Offline sj_31

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2018, 08:55:12 AM »
Staying in same thread but different questions. Questions on #64 and #73 (PDF version).

#64 I can't find the AR that state one way or another if we can tack BOTH carry-over PF/UNS fouls over to the kickoff, one PF during a TD and one during a successful try. Can we assess 30 yards on the succeeding KO or if they carryover one from the TD play that if something (a PF or other carryover type foul) that they can't also use it.

#73 I have always treated a swinging gate as NOT a legal scrimmage kick formation, however--and I may be overthinking this--given that there is a snapper, holder and kicker in position, and it is a try, does the NCAA want this to be a valid SK formation? I have this as illegal (answer "f")

Thanks for the clarification

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2018, 09:42:07 AM »
SJ_31,

Like you, I’d like to see an AR that specifically covers this, but, logically, both fouls get penalized at the succeeding spot.  What else would you do with the penalties?  The rules don’t provide for either penalty to be declined by rule.  If Team A thought they might not get to enforce the first penalty on the kickoff, they might want to take it on the Try (and go for 2?).  And to simply have the second penalty declined by rule would give Team B carte blanche to commit a personal foul on the Try.

If Team B doesn’t want 30 yards in penalties on the Try, ....

Robert

Offline RedTD

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2018, 10:01:49 AM »
Staying in same thread but different questions. Questions on #64 and #73 (PDF version).

#64 I can't find the AR that state one way or another if we can tack BOTH carry-over PF/UNS fouls over to the kickoff, one PF during a TD and one during a successful try. Can we assess 30 yards on the succeeding KO or if they carryover one from the TD play that if something (a PF or other carryover type foul) that they can't also use it.

#73 I have always treated a swinging gate as NOT a legal scrimmage kick formation, however--and I may be overthinking this--given that there is a snapper, holder and kicker in position, and it is a try, does the NCAA want this to be a valid SK formation? I have this as illegal (answer "f")



Re #73 Case book 7.1.4 VII and VIII seems to imply that on a Try a swinging gate formation with a kicker and holder meets the requirements of a Scrimmage Kick formation.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 10:03:30 AM by RedTD »

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2018, 10:13:32 AM »
And on 73, there is one more element, by rule, that qualifies a formation as a SKF.  It must be “...obvious that a scrimmage kick will be attempted”.  As John Adams explained when this rule was developed in the 70s, this means they must be in a traditional punt or field goal formation.  Just having a back or backs in the locations behind the NZ that fit the requirements doesn’t make it qualify.  With all of the other linemen split out wide, it ain’t much of a kicking formation. I suspect Team B would love for Team A to try a kick from one of those formations.😏

So, a swinging gate doesn’t qualify as a SKF, and they have to comply with regular numbering requirements.  If they snap from this formation, with fewer than 5 linemen numbered 50-79, that’s an illegal formation foul.
But, it is not a foul until the snap.  So, if they shift to a traditional field goal formation, then they do not have to meet the regular numbering requirements, so they can legally snap from this adjusted formation.

Robert

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2018, 10:47:41 AM »
Re #73 Case book 7.1.4 VII and VIII seems to imply that on a Try a swinging gate formation with a kicker and holder meets the requirements of a Scrimmage Kick formation.

Has anyone ever seen a team actually kick from a swinging gate formation?  If Team B doesn’t adjust to cover, A will snap and run or pass.  If B adjusts to cover them, then A will shift to a traditional field goal formation.  While they are in the swinging gate formation, it is not obvious a kick will be attempted, so that formation does not qualify as a SKF.

In VII, the formation is non-traditional for a punt, but it isn’t unreasonable, if on 4th down for certain.  Third down and long, it is also not unreasonable.  Third and short - no way.  That would be a formation that would require them to comply with regular numbering requirements.

In VIII, the formation isn’t a classic swinging gate formation, but it isn’t a traditional punt formation, either, so it isn’t obvious a kick will be made (as the ruling states).  So, they have to comply with regular numbering requirements.

Robert

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test PDF #21
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2018, 02:04:32 PM »
21.  (Paraphrased statement:)  2/5, A-45.  A82 catches legal forward pass and is tackled at the B-30.  DPI is called on B27; penalty declined.  RO stops the game and determines A82 stepped OB and returned inbounds before the pass was released.

a) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
b) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on snap.
c) 3/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
d) 3/5, A-45.  GC starts on snap.

The problem with this question is we don't know on whom the DPI is committed.  If the DPI was to A82, then the DPI foul call would be dismissed after the RO review, because A82 was ineligible, and the only foul would be ITP on A82 (created by the RO), which would yield A, 3/5, A-45, with GC starting on the RFP.
But if the DPI was on an eligible receiver, then there would be offsetting fouls after the RO review, yielding A, 2/5, A-45, with GC starting on then RFP.

Robert


Offline Sonofanump

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test PDF #21
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2018, 03:29:53 PM »
21.  (Paraphrased statement:)  2/5, A-45.  A82 catches legal forward pass and is tackled at the B-30.  DPI is called on B27; penalty declined.  RO stops the game and determines A82 stepped OB and returned inbounds before the pass was released.

a) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
b) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on snap.
c) 3/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
d) 3/5, A-45.  GC starts on snap.

The problem with this question is we don't know on whom the DPI is committed.  If the DPI was to A82, then the DPI foul call would be dismissed after the RO review, because A82 was ineligible, and the only foul would be ITP on A82 (created by the RO), which would yield A, 3/5, A-45, with GC starting on the RFP.
But if the DPI was on an eligible receiver, then there would be offsetting fouls after the RO review, yielding A, 2/5, A-45, with GC starting on then RFP.

Robert

I don't think I've thought about DPI could be committed against some other that the A receiver who caught the ball since catchability is a criteria for DPI. 

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2018, 03:50:57 PM »
That certainly makes DPI on another receiver difficult, but not impossible. I would just like to see questions that remove all ambiguity.  Like,"B27 is flagged for DPI on A82, but Team A initially declines the penalty."

Robert
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 12:50:53 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline clearwall

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test PDF #21
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2018, 09:10:22 AM »
21.  (Paraphrased statement:)  2/5, A-45.  A82 catches legal forward pass and is tackled at the B-30.  DPI is called on B27; penalty declined.  RO stops the game and determines A82 stepped OB and returned inbounds before the pass was released.

a) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
b) 2/5, A-45, GC starts on snap.
c) 3/5, A-45, GC starts on RFP.
d) 3/5, A-45.  GC starts on snap.

The problem with this question is we don't know on whom the DPI is committed.  If the DPI was to A82, then the DPI foul call would be dismissed after the RO review, because A82 was ineligible, and the only foul would be ITP on A82 (created by the RO), which would yield A, 3/5, A-45, with GC starting on the RFP.
But if the DPI was on an eligible receiver, then there would be offsetting fouls after the RO review, yielding A, 2/5, A-45, with GC starting on then RFP.

Robert

I've always been told not to overthink these things. It seems pretty clear what they want to ask about is clock status on an IFP penalty. No need to make it more confusing than it needs to be

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2018, 01:35:18 PM »
If clock status was the only concern, why give us options for 2/5?  Given the facts in the statement, how could you possibly get to 2/5?  The only way is if the down was to be repeated.  How could that possibly happen?  Either an error in thinking the penalty for illegal touching foul requires the down to be repeated (it does not - it carries "loss of down" in the penalty statement), or there were offsetting fouls.  How could there be off-setting fouls?  POSSIBLY, if the DPI was committed against an eligible receiver.

The entire point of an exam is to test our knowledge, and to avoid "thinking errors."  For all any of us know, they were testing our knowledge of the "next down" element as much, if not more, than the clock status.  Like you, I DOUBT that the issue of DPI and eligibility is at the heart of this quiz statement, but it IS a possibility that would contribute to yielding one of the given answer options.

I would rather folks overthink a bit (on the test) and know that they know the rules, than underthink (on the field) and make a potentially gross or catastrophic error.

But I would really prefer that the statements be written in a way that eliminates ambiguity.

Maybe the silver lining is that somebody reading this thread learned something they didn't know before.  If so, then it is a worthwhile discussion.

Robert

Offline Sonofanump

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Re: 2018 NCAA Rules Test
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2018, 04:50:33 PM »
If clock status was the only concern, why give us options for 2/5?  Given the facts in the statement, how could you possibly get to 2/5?  The only way is if the down was to be repeated.  How could that possibly happen?  Either an error in thinking the penalty for illegal touching foul requires the down to be repeated (it does not - it carries "loss of down" in the penalty statement), or there were offsetting fouls.  How could there be off-setting fouls?  POSSIBLY, if the DPI was committed against an eligible receiver.

The entire point of an exam is to test our knowledge, and to avoid "thinking errors."  For all any of us know, they were testing our knowledge of the "next down" element as much, if not more, than the clock status.  Like you, I DOUBT that the issue of DPI and eligibility is at the heart of this quiz statement, but it IS a possibility that would contribute to yielding one of the given answer options.

I would rather folks overthink a bit (on the test) and know that they know the rules, than underthink (on the field) and make a potentially gross or catastrophic error.

But I would really prefer that the statements be written in a way that eliminates ambiguity.

Maybe the silver lining is that somebody reading this thread learned something they didn't know before.  If so, then it is a worthwhile discussion.

Robert

Maybe: There are two types of illegal touching on forward passes.  One does not involve a LOD.   
I get what you are saying, I was trying to think of all of the game clock status scenarios for Q11: A injury + A holding or B helmet.