Author Topic: The Kicking Game and it's problems (Read 11523 times)

SCHSref · « **on:** November 06, 2020, 09:04:05 AM »

This seems to have more problems than anything else. When it goes wrong, it's a disaster. Last night, kid gave the FC signal, I went to mark the spot and blow the whistle and he started running.

Talked to 2 officials and they told me that I did blow the whistle before he started running. So, we wiped the flag because he got about 3 yds from the spot. Didn't want to pop him for DOG.

Any other problems or things we just need to be hyper aware of for those "special" occassions?

HLinNC · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2020, 09:43:58 AM »

Yeah, make sure he actually catches it. My IW came in a JV game on a short punt that a corner gave a valid FC signal then the ball went right through his arms to the ground. I was too intent on giving him protection and blew it. Literally and figuratively.

In my defense, as HL I'm the last guy downfield, excluding the U and R, as I'm holding the line until the ball crosses so that's how bad of a punt it was.

Derek Teigen · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »

this also happened to me last year. I was strictly a wing official and I was part of a 4 man crew so it was the line judge who was back with the punt receiver, who had called for a fair catch and then started running. The official, who was very experienced did not throw a flag for delay of game and I asked him about it. I don't remember what he said exactly but I gathered he did not feel it rose to the level where a flag was warranted. Maybe it was because this was a JV game. He may not have let it go in a varsity game, however.

I think as the official who is back with the receiver we should be in a good position to shut that play down pretty quickly if the runner takes off after the fair catch and whistle. If he keeps running after repeated whistle attempts I might throw the flag.

Does anybody yell out 'fair catch!' 'fair catch!!' as soon as you see the punt receivers arm go up? I have not but wonder if this should be part of my routine.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2020, 10:27:16 AM »

Ball status, location and timing of fouls is especially important in the kicking game.

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riffraft · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2020, 12:53:07 PM »

Quote from: HLinNC on November 06, 2020, 09:43:58 AM

Yeah, make sure he actually catches it. My IW came in a JV game on a short punt that a corner gave a valid FC signal then the ball went right through his arms to the ground. I was too intent on giving him protection and blew it. Literally and figuratively.

In my defense, as HL I'm the last guy downfield, excluding the U and R, as I'm holding the line until the ball crosses so that's how bad of a punt it was.

My last IW came in a semi-pro game. I was working the line, Kicker shanked the punt. K's Wide out catches the ball. I blow my whistle. At that point I realized he caught the ball behind the LOS. Kicking game can be fun.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2020, 01:00:22 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 06, 2020, 10:27:16 AM

Ball status, location and timing of fouls is especially important in the kicking game.

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Volume, and length of your whistle, in "special circumstances" can be as significant as timing. Potential of a loud, sharp whistle being ignored is much lower than a short, quiet one.

Old, but still very valid, suggestion for the deep covering official, before the ball is snapped, on EVERY scrimmage kick, make eye contact with the deep receiver and (verbally & visually) remind him of a "proper" FC signal, should he choose to use one.

FC signal is a MUTUAL CONTRACT; signaler agrees NOT to (either) advance (or block a defender) in return for the defender allowing the receiver to "CATCH" the kick avoiding contact with the signaler.

Both NFHS: 2-9-1 through 4 and 6-5-1 through 8 are REALLY important &required reading & understanding.

HLinNC · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2020, 01:27:25 PM »

Quote

K's Wide out catches the ball. I blow my whistle. At that point I realized he caught the ball behind the LOS.

Once this happened, I started turning my finger whistle away from me on 4th down. Once I switched to a lanyard, I carry the finger whistle in my pocket as a back-up. On 4th down and free kicks, I still slide it on backwards.

SCHSref · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2020, 02:43:27 PM »

R1 catches the punt and is immediately tackled. Ruling? Personally, I've got nothing

bama_stripes · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2020, 03:23:07 PM »

Quote from: HLinNC on November 06, 2020, 09:43:58 AM

Yeah, make sure he actually catches it. My IW came in a JV game on a short punt that a corner gave a valid FC signal then the ball went right through his arms to the ground. I was too intent on giving him protection and blew it. Literally and figuratively.

In my defense, as HL I'm the last guy downfield, excluding the U and R, as I'm holding the line until the ball crosses so that's how bad of a punt it was.

This is one of the items I really emphasize in my pregame. Around here, many teams will use a short “angle kick” on kickoffs, and these are frequently fair caught as well.

bossman72 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2020, 10:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Derek Teigen on November 06, 2020, 10:26:15 AM

Does anybody yell out 'fair catch!' 'fair catch!!' as soon as you see the punt receivers arm go up? I have not but wonder if this should be part of my routine.

Yes, I've seen deep guys do this and it makes sense. It's actually more for us than for them. Helps you remember that the ball can't be advanced and that he can't block when other things happen that might distract you (like a muff).

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2020, 08:51:45 AM »

Quote from: HLinNC on November 06, 2020, 09:43:58 AM

Yeah, make sure he actually catches it. My IW came in a JV game on a short punt that a corner gave a valid FC signal then the ball went right through his arms to the ground. I was too intent on giving him protection and blew it. Literally and figuratively.

In my defense, as HL I'm the last guy downfield, excluding the U and R, as I'm holding the line until the ball crosses so that's how bad of a punt it was.

Excellent point, HL, a muffed fair catch is by far the leader in eager- tweeter IW's. In pre-game I suggest : "See leather before you blow AND see a kick caught for fair catch. REMEMBER, a successful fair catch kills the play, WAIT for possession!"

FYI, #2 is a pass deflecting off a receiver's hands. The tweeter shouldn't tweet until the ball hits the ground and deflection would turn into an IW if caught by another player.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2020, 11:13:59 AM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on November 11, 2020, 08:51:45 AM

Excellent point, HL, a muffed fair catch is by far the leader in eager- tweeter IW's. In pre-game I suggest : "See leather before you blow AND see a kick caught for fair catch. REMEMBER, a successful fair catch kills the play, WAIT for possession!"

FYI, #2 is a pass deflecting off a receiver's hands. The tweeter shouldn't tweet until the ball hits the ground and deflection would turn into an IW if caught by another player.

2 solid examples of where the delay in bringing a finger whistle to the mouth can be very helpful in avoiding unintentional/unintended mishaps.

KWH · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2020, 01:07:25 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on November 11, 2020, 08:51:45 AM

Excellent point, HL, a muffed fair catch is by far the leader in eager- tweeter IW's. In pre-game I suggest : "See leather before you blow AND see a kick caught for fair catch. REMEMBER, a successful fair catch kills the play, WAIT for possession!"

FYI, #2 is a pass deflecting off a receiver's hands. The tweeter shouldn't tweet until the ball hits the ground and deflection would turn into an IW if caught by another player.

I agree with Ralph that the muffed fair catch is the Leader in awarding The Annual Eager Tweeter Award.
I would say sliding in comfortably at the Number two position is a Blocked Field Goal and the Eager Tweeter is thinking blocked PAT!
(Oregon had a to fix for number two)

Etref · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2020, 06:13:55 PM »

The absolute best way to learn the kicking game is to worked L or BJ in junior high games. Anything can happen there!

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2020, 07:42:38 PM »

Quote from: Etref on November 11, 2020, 06:13:55 PM

The absolute best way to learn the kicking game is to worked L or BJ in junior high games. Anything can happen there!

Working a Wednesday afternoon Div III JV game, a player questioned, "Is that the White Hat, I saw at Saturday's Notre Dame game?" I felt is appropriate to relate what this white hat regularly advised, "Good idea to get as many snaps as you can, wherever".

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2020, 10:37:28 AM »

Quote from: KWH on November 11, 2020, 01:07:25 PM

I agree with Ralph that the muffed fair catch is the Leader in awarding The Annual Eager Tweeter Award.
I would say sliding in comfortably at the Number two position is a Blocked Field Goal and the Eager Tweeter is thinking blocked PAT!
(Oregon had a to fix for number two)

Good point, Kevin, in Maine we don't have many FG tries - the gravitional pull is too strong

. We waggle our whistles prior to the kick to remind each to hold our whistle. This season we used minature fog horns but FGs in 7-man (Maine's answer to corona football) they were not needed as only the kicker, snapper and holder were allowed on the field

. We had one game on a soccer field without any football markings. The kids enjoyed the activity ...that was the important thing.

SCHSref · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2020, 10:50:02 AM »

Quote from: AlUpstateNY on November 11, 2020, 11:13:59 AM

2 solid examples of where the delay in bringing a finger whistle to the mouth can be very helpful in avoiding unintentional/unintended mishaps.

We are strongly discouraged in the use of finger whistles unless U or R. However, the only time my whistle (BJ here) is placed into my mouth before a snap is if DOG is about to happen. I'm very slow on whistles with punts and let everyone know during the pre-game.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #17 on:** November 25, 2020, 06:34:47 AM »

I agree with everything you posted in principle SCHS. I might suggest in RE: the slow whistle (which is excellent. Better late than early) that you not even mention that in pregame. At least to the coaches. All it does is plant an idea in their heads and draw attention to what otherwise would be inconsequential.

bama_stripes · « **Reply #18 on:** November 25, 2020, 07:32:21 AM »

Quote from: KWH on November 11, 2020, 01:07:25 PM

I agree with Ralph that the muffed fair catch is the Leader in awarding The Annual Eager Tweeter Award.
I would say sliding in comfortably at the Number two position is a Blocked Field Goal and the Eager Tweeter is thinking blocked PAT!
(Oregon had a to fix for number two)

My vote for second place is a muff or fumble that is apparently recovered, but the ball then squirts or rolls away. It’s easy for the wing official to get on his whistle without actually seeing the ball.

HLinNC · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2020, 09:16:03 AM »

Quote

that you not even mention that in pregame.

The least said in pre-game with coaches, the better. The vast majority's minds are somewhere else. Many would rather take a beating with a wooden spoon than have to talk to us. I watched a HC go from 0-60 once because my white hat that game pointed out that the "snap down" his o-line was doing in warm-ups better be done every play.

All I have is "Are you calling your own timeouts? and "My first name is XXXX, call me by that if you need a timeout quick and I'll know its you." Any chit-chat after that is up to him.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2020, 11:42:12 AM »

Exactly.

Coach, will your players be legally and properly equipped at game time?
Who is the timeout coach?
Do you want to designate a penalty guy? Or are you him?
We will come get your captains about 10 minutes prior
You have any questions for us?

Sometimes it feels like even that is too much.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2020, 01:49:41 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 25, 2020, 11:42:12 AM

Exactly.

Coach, will your players be legally and properly equipped at game time?
Who is the timeout coach?
Do you want to designate a penalty guy? Or are you him?
We will come get your captains about 10 minutes prior
You have any questions for us?

Agree that brevity is the objective, however even a brief conversation can serve to establish an important tone. As for dealing with potential questions I suggest offering a subtle caveat, such as, " Should you have any questions about any developments during the game, I'll be happy to explain or clarify any questions you may have (a brief PAUSE), provided those questions or comments are made in an appropriate and civil manner." No immediate response is expected or necessary.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2020, 01:55:59 PM »

Sorry, but no. I’m not inviting the coach to ask questions during the game. He has my wing to talk to if he needs to. If he wants to talk to me, it better be about a rule he thinks we have misapplied and he needs to call time out.

HLinNC · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2020, 02:24:57 PM »

Quote

He has my wing to talk to if he needs to.

We had a white hat that use to say "You wings ain't nothing but politicians." I would just smile and reply "That's why we make the best referees."

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #24 on:** November 25, 2020, 03:03:05 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 25, 2020, 01:55:59 PM

Sorry, but no. I’m not inviting the coach to ask questions during the game. He has my wing to talk to if he needs to. If he wants to talk to me, it better be about a rule he thinks we have misapplied and he needs to call time out.

Unfortunately, the Coach still will usually decides who he addresses questions to, and the Referee still decides if, and when, he elects to direct the Wingman to answer it, or chooses to involve himself. Either way, the Referee retains complete control over whether, or when, to apply, and follow, NFHS 3-5-11, if HE decides that becomes necessary.

However, if that message of "appropriate and civil tone" has been successfully planted, whatever conversation ensues just might go a little smoother. As often suggested, "An ounce of prevention can avoid a pound of cure".