Author Topic: Here's one for you guys.....  (Read 649 times)

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Offline Ralph Damren

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Here's one for you guys.....
« on: September 24, 2026, 09:08:15 AM »
I'm still the state interp, until a new one is elected in late October. This came from a game this past weekend....

SCENE: 4/10 @ 50

ACT I: A1 scrambles to B's 38, where he pitches the ball forward to A2 .  ^flag IFP.

ACT ii: A2 juggles the IFP,then ball drops to ground.

ACT III: B50 pulls A1 down by FM . ^flag

RULINGS...
    If B's PFFM occurs prior  to the ball hitting the ground  ???
    If B's PFFM occurs after he ball hits the ground  ???
    If A's IFP occurs at B's 34  ???

After I hear from you guys, I'll give you my opinion.  tR:oLl

                         
« Last Edit: September 24, 2026, 09:16:36 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2026, 12:17:35 PM »

RULINGS...
    1.  If B's PFFM occurs prior  to the ball hitting the ground  ???
    2.   If B's PFFM occurs after he ball hits the ground  ???
    3.  If A's IFP occurs at B's 34  ???
After I hear from you guys, I'll give you my opinion.  tR:oLl
               


1.  Until the ball hits the ground the ball is live so we have two live ball fouls, offsetting fouls, replay the down.
2.  The ball is dead and play over when the ball hits the ground.  Series is over, 1st & 10 for B, after the DB-PF is enforced for the PF-FM against B.
3.  Don't see how this impacts the results if 1 and 2 above?


The key here is the status of the ball at the time each of the penalties are called.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2026, 12:23:00 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Steely Dan

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2026, 12:31:50 PM »
Act ii:  Possible fumble?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2026, 12:40:20 PM »

3.  Don't see how this impacts the results if 1 and 2 above?

After the penalty for the live-ball illegal forward pass foul, would the ball still be beyond the line to gain, i.e., a new series for Team A? Then, would the penalty for the dead-ball facemask foul advance the ball farther into B’s territory?

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2026, 12:41:43 PM »
Act ii:  Possible fumble?
Can't have a fumble on an IFP?

It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline refjeff

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2026, 12:57:16 PM »

1.  Until the ball hits the ground the ball is live so we have two live ball fouls, offsetting fouls, replay the down.
2.  The ball is dead and play over when the ball hits the ground.  Series is over, 1st & 10 for B, after the DB-PF is enforced for the PF-FM against B.
3.  Don't see how this impacts the results if 1 and 2 above?


The key here is the status of the ball at the time each of the penalties are called.
  Agreed, except with #2 we're going to walk off 5 yards for the IFP because it is also a loss of down.  Then the 15 the other way for the PFFM.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2026, 01:04:05 PM »
After the penalty for the live-ball illegal forward pass foul, would the ball still be beyond the line to gain, i.e., a new series for Team A? Then, would the penalty for the dead-ball facemask foul advance the ball farther into B’s territory?

Oh yeah.  I didn't see it either.  If the IFP happened on the 34, even after the 5 yard penalty A would have a 1st down.  (Assuming the PFFM was dead ball.)

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2026, 01:09:44 PM »
Can't have a fumble on an IFP?
NVFOA is correct ,4-2-2d kills the play when dropped. If you ruled B2 had possession and then dropped the ball, that could be considered a fumble. NVFOA nailed #1`& #2 --congrats aWaRd

Elvis nailed #3, even with the LOD componnent, the 5 yd markoff from the 34 wouldn't bring the ball back inside the original series. A would have a new series from B's 39 followed by a markoff down  to B's 24 for DBFM...congrats  aWaRd

When in doubt of the timing, I would rule offsetting live ball fouls and replay the down.

Offline sj

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2026, 01:43:08 PM »
NVFOA is correct ,4-2-2d kills the play when dropped. If you ruled B2 had possession and then dropped the ball, that could be considered a fumble. NVFOA nailed #1`& #2 --congrats aWaRd

Elvis nailed #3, even with the LOD componnent, the 5 yd markoff from the 34 wouldn't bring the ball back inside the original series. A would have a new series from B's 39 followed by a markoff down  to B's 24 for DBFM...congrats  aWaRd

When in doubt of the timing, I would rule offsetting live ball fouls and replay the down.

Always important are the clocks, so taking the situation which leaves A with the ball with A 1/10 @ B24, what would be done with the game clock status, and play clock setting, if the play occurred in each of the following time and score situations:

1) In the middle of the 1st quarter - Tied at 0-0

2) 4th quarter - Team B leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 2:45

3) 4th quarter - Team B leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 1:45

4) 4th quarter - Team A leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 2:45

5) 4th quarter - Team A leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 1:45
« Last Edit: September 24, 2026, 01:47:52 PM by sj »

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2026, 09:27:26 AM »
Always important are the clocks, so taking the situation which leaves A with the ball with A 1/10 @ B24, what would be done with the game clock status, and play clock setting, if the play occurred in each of the following time and score situations:

1) In the middle of the 1st quarter - Tied at 0-0

2) 4th quarter - Team B leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 2:45

3) 4th quarter - Team B leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 1:45

4) 4th quarter - Team A leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 2:45

5) 4th quarter - Team A leads 13-10 - At the end of the down the game clock is stopped at 1:45

There was a foul by A on the play, therefore the play clock will be 25 seconds. The result of the play was an incomplete (illegal) forward pass, therefore the clock will start on the snap. None of those situations change that outcome.

In the broader scope, the team in the lead is not relevant to clock timing in Fed rules like it is in NCAA. Under 2 minutes, the offended team (winning or losing) has the option to hold the game clock to the snap - but since it was already on the snap, that's moot here anyway.

Offline Steely Dan

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2026, 01:45:28 PM »
Can't have a fumble on an IFP?

How do you juggle an IFP?  I kinda read Ralph's question as he was going to attempt a pass but started juggling the ball which eventually spilled out of his hands forward.  I misunderstood I guess.


Offline ncwingman

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2026, 03:44:10 PM »
How do you juggle an IFP?  I kinda read Ralph's question as he was going to attempt a pass but started juggling the ball which eventually spilled out of his hands forward.  I misunderstood I guess.

A1 pitched the ball forward. A2 juggled and then dropped the pitch that A1 threw.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Here's one for you guys.....
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2026, 08:44:27 PM »
I'm still the state interp, until a new one is elected in late October. This came from a game this past weekend....

SCENE: 4/10 @ 50

ACT I: A1 scrambles to B's 38, where he pitches the ball forward to A2 .  ^flag IFP.

ACT ii: A2 juggles the IFP,then ball drops to ground.

ACT III: B50 pulls A1 down by FM . ^flag

RULINGS...
    If B's PFFM occurs prior  to the ball hitting the ground  ???
    If B's PFFM occurs after he ball hits the ground  ???
    If A's IFP occurs at B's 34  ???

After I hear from you guys, I'll give you my opinion.  tR:oLl

                         

1) Offset.  4/10 @ 50
2) B 1/10 @ A42
3) A 1/10 @ A24.