Author Topic: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)  (Read 28874 times)

Offline Dommer1

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2007, 02:36:12 AM »
Of course. As we all know, the Referee makes all calls, and he runs the replay system in college games too.

KB

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2007, 04:16:56 AM »
Once again, the danger of handling something through "philosophy" only.

IllegalShift

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2007, 06:40:36 PM »
Kixon, this has been an interesting and informative discussion about a play situation that obviously deserves a rule clarification.  Your anti Texas Tech rant is getting old, I'm sorry your admission application there was denied.  Move on.

OB1

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2007, 09:48:00 AM »
How many times, in the NFL, have we seen a receiver touch a "toe," then drag a "toe" inbounds and have it ruled a catch.  I don't think we need an anatomical definition of "foot" in order to make this call.  I humbly disagree with those who say this is not a catch.  Getting a foot down has always meant, or been understdood, as any part of the foot clearly inbounds.  If something has changed, I missed it.

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2007, 01:00:31 PM »
How many times, in the NFL, have we seen a receiver touch a "toe," then drag a "toe" inbounds and have it ruled a catch.  I don't think we need an anatomical definition of "foot" in order to make this call.  I humbly disagree with those who say this is not a catch.  Getting a foot down has always meant, or been understdood, as any part of the foot clearly inbounds.  If something has changed, I missed it.

So if I leap up to make a catch and come down with my foot on the sideline but, say, 10% of my foot inbounds you're going to rule catch?

OB1

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2007, 06:11:58 PM »
If the 10% of your foot clearly lands inbounds before any other part of your body touches out of bounds, yes.  Not to get caught up in NFL, but it is standard technique to coach, practice, and execute one foot (or toe) in, then dragging the toe.  They're not dragging the heel! 

OB1

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2007, 06:27:06 PM »
Last point, I swear!  Rule 2-2-7 c:...To catch...a ball, a player who leaves his feet to make a catch...must have the ball firmly in is possession when he first returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body...

And from the esteemed Rodgers Redding guide (p. 39) regarding "catch".  "It means firmly grasping the ball and first touching the ground inbounds."

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2007, 06:30:16 PM »
If the 10% of your foot clearly lands inbounds before any other part of your body touches out of bounds, yes.

ok- so take it to the extreme... say the foot is all on the white except it touches a single blade of green grass.  Based on your criteria you're calling that in as well?

OB1

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2007, 06:41:01 PM »
Nope.  In that case it would fall under the "...when in doubt" axiom (incomplete).  Fortunately, we very, very seldom have to deal with anything so extreme.  My only point is - ball firmly controlled (and control maintained) ...first contact is down inbounds...catch!

Offline TXMike

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2007, 06:56:32 PM »
ok- so take it to the extreme... say the foot is all on the white except it touches a single blade of green grass.  Based on your criteria you're calling that in as well?

Come on that is a no brainer.  If he comes down and any part of  him is touching OOB, he is OOB and pass is incomplete.  EX:  He comes down and all of foot is in the green except the toe which is touching a single blade of white-painted grass, OOB.  We are not talking here about a situation where he simultaneously touched in bounds and OOB.  He touched in bounds and after a "delay", touched OOB.  Complete.

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2007, 07:05:52 PM »
Come on that is a no brainer.  If he comes down and any part of  him is touching OOB, he is OOB and pass is incomplete.  EX:  He comes down and all of foot is in the green except the toe which is touching a single blade of white-painted grass, OOB.  We are not talking here about a situation where he simultaneously touched in bounds and OOB.  He touched in bounds and after a "delay", touched OOB.  Complete.

I completely agree but I also thought my Reply #29 above was a no-brainer, too- but others disagree.

Offline TXMike

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2007, 07:11:03 PM »
I did not see anyone here disagree with your #29.  He lands first with anypart of his body OOB he is OOB

Offline JugglingReferee

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 03:35:38 PM »
Interesting play.  We use the toe-heel approach here in the Canadian version of NCAA.

In the video, I have an incomplete catch.  In the still, it is complete.

Offline houstonjaguar

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2011, 10:33:36 AM »
Saw a similar play last night in the Cowboys v. Chargers game.  Toe came down inbounds, heel landed out.  Incomplete pass.

Is the rule different in college?

Offline TXMike

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2011, 10:42:25 AM »
The difference in NCAA would have been he already had 1 foot down in bounds so catch was completed before he went OOB.  But if the first foot does the same  "toe-heel" deal, then it is supposed to be ruled incomplete.  Makes no sense at all since all he needs to do is tap a toe down in bounds to get credit for a catch before continuing OOB.  But if his toe comes down and in same motion then his heel touches line, incomoplete.

Offline hefnerjm

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Re: NCAA "Toe-Heel" Rule (Texas - Texas Tech Game)
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2015, 12:07:13 PM »
I realize that I am bringing this back from the dead, but Im new here and I had one thought that I didnt see anyone mention.

Toe-tap vs. Heel-Toe:

In a situation where the receiver is laying out, falling forward OOB and gets a toe down (or foot + toe drag in NFL), no part of the foot ever touches OOB...100% of the contact (albeit just a toe) in inbounds.  Typically the first thing to touch OOB is an arm or shoulder as they go to the ground, or they lift their foot to make another step and try and stay upright.  If it is just a toe, and any of the toe is on white, you would call incomplete.

Contrast that with a receiver falling backwards with a catch.  The physics of his body allow him to get a toe down, but in falling backwards, if the heel touches white, then it is still the same "foot" and should be  ^no
I think to call this complete, the receiver would have to get the toe down, and lift the foot to make another step and prevent the heel from touching OOB. 

In either case, the Shipley catch would be tough for even the most veteran officials to call accurately in real time.
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"