UIL or TASO

[WABill]

I can't work for an entity that believes having an extended timeout, for player safety, is a violation of the spirit and intent of the rules.  They work for one master - and it is not the officials.  My best guess is that the shirts the UIL officials wear next year will have a big red target on the back for proper knife placement when the UIL hands out punishment for egregious officiating errors.

[DallasLJ]

I can't want to see the new on-line testing and training they plan to provide to football officials.  Just where are they going to get that expertise?

[JasonTX]

Nobody can force us to pay dues to the UIL.  UIL will never be able to get enough officials to cover the games.  TASO can barely cover them with all the chapters.  Even then, some games are forced to be done with a short handed crew.  Once a few years ago there was a game where the head coach forgot to get a crew scheduled.  Instead of cancelling the game they used a few assistant coaches to work the game.  It looked more like a scrimmage than a game because these coaches didn't really know what they were doing.  The game counted.  It was done without any UIL approval to use non-certified officials.  When it comes down to a Friday night game, these schools will put all UIL rules aside and do what they have to to have their game officiated.  If that means using a TASO chapter then that is what they will do.  Just don't pay any dues to UIL.  Support your chapter and you will get games.

[TXMike]

You and I and a lot of other good officials are in that same canoe.  I'm not ready to walk away, I've really just begun.  We're in a tight spot because if we stay, I have a feeling there will be several brothers in stripes that will not look kindly upon that decision.

This should not be your reason for staying put.  Don't worry about how those who choose not to join you feel about it.  Stay because you want to keep doing it and you are willing to do so under the UIL, with all the baggage that brings with it.  But stay put just to "please" others.

[TXMike]

Houston Chronicle article

Appeals court rules for UIL in lawsuit
Challenge involving officials by TASO halted
By SAM KHAN JR.

The lengthy legal battle between the University Interscholastic League and the Texas Association of Sports Officials has ended.

The state’s Third Court of Appeals in Austin dismissed TASO’s lawsuit against the UIL on Friday, ending a battle that began in December when TASO, the state’s governing body of sports officials, sued the UIL, the state’s governing body of high school athletics.

“We’re pleased that this portion of the challenge is over,” University Interscholastic League executive director Charles Breithaupt said. “We have a dedication to work with our officials and show them we appreciate the work they do night in and night out.”

TASO executive director Michael Fitch couldn’t immediately be reached for comment.

Last October, the UIL passed an amendment to rule 1204 of its constitution, requiring that all officials that call its varsity contests be registered with the UIL. In the preceding 32 years, TASO officials were required for varsity contests.

TASO was opposed to the ruling, and after it filed its lawsuit in December, the court issued a writ of injunction against the UIL in February, preventing the organization from collecting any fees in relation to its officials’ registration program or from enforcing the amendments to rule 1204 of the UIL’s constitution, which were passed in November requiring schools to use UIL-registered officials.

The Third Court of Appeals lifted that injunction and ruled that the UIL has sovereign immunity, which barred TASO’s claim that the UIL had no legal right to require officials to register with the organization.

Breithaupt said the UIL will meet with its attorneys before taking further action but that the league plans to meet with TASO’s officials in an attempt to find a common ground as they move forward.

“We’re going to meet with our attorneys and map out our next step and then work with the individual divisions (of officials) and coordinate the next steps,” Breithaupt said. “We don’t want to leave that out.

“Without their input there can be no success.”

[VALJ]

Hey, if any of y'all that can't stomach working for UIL and don't mind learning NFHS rules, I can think of at least one chapter in Virginia that would love to add some vets.

[TXMike]

If we wanted to work fed rules we could just wait as they will be here soon enough now it seems.

[Welpe]

This should not be your reason for staying put.  Don't worry about how those who choose not to join you feel about it.  Stay because you want to keep doing it and you are willing to do so under the UIL, with all the baggage that brings with it.  But stay put just to "please" others.

Make no mistake, I will stick around because I want to keep officiating.  That said I can already envision being called a scab for wanting to do so.

[WABill]

Make no mistake, I will stick around because I want to keep officiating.  That said I can already envision being called a scab for wanting to do so.

No scabs at all.  It is personal choice.  The game will go one with or without TASO / UIL officials.  As TXMike stated - it is a personal choice, a risk / reward individual analysis.

[TxGrayhat]

I hope and pray that Taso can survive. i think its the best organization FOR officials. Some where there has to be one person with taso and one person with uil that can sit down and come to an agreement that shares responsibilities and yes dues if needed. each group can take care of the areas they could excel in UIL registration, back ground checks and record keeping. TASO could excel in training, recruiting, and chapter organization. They could share in issues concerning complaints and discipline.
 But lets be clear I got into this to call football games. I intend to continue to call football games. I don't do this for a living, TASO, or the UIL.  I do it because I love it. I love the Game. I didn't join Taso or UIL . I joined my Chapter.   

[TxGrayhat]

I hope and pray that Taso can survive. i think its the best organization FOR officials. Some where there has to be one person with taso and one person with uil that can sit down and come to an agreement that shares responsibilities and yes dues if needed. each group can take care of the areas they could excel in UIL registration, back ground checks and record keeping. TASO could excel in training, recruiting, and chapter organization. They could share in issues concerning complaints and discipline.
 But lets be clear I got into this to call football games. I intend to continue to call football games. I don't do this for a living, TASO, or the UIL.  I do it because I love it. I love the Game. I didn't join Taso or UIL . I joined my Chapter.   

Meaning When I first Joined I had never heard of the Organization TASO and only Heard of UIL but didn't know what role they really played in atheletics.  I just had some friends that called games and I wanted to do it too. So I joined the Chapter.

If the changes that could occur if TASO loses makes me not love to call anymore then I walk away. If not I keep calling. 

[TxJim]

In regards to: http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=6792.msg62970#msg62970

Doesn't the fact that UIL claimed that the injunction prevented it from paying officials the new fees increases previously announced in the UIL Leaguer March 5, 2010, that the new fee increase is now in effect?

[JasonTX]

Here's an idea.  If UIL wants to be in charge, we should be allowed to elect our own officials to be put on the UIL board so that we can be in charge of decisions that affect us.  Any paid leaders with TASO should also be provided a paid position if they so desire.  Basically it will be the UIL and TASO working together for one common goal.  TASO can become a branch of the UIL. 

[TexDoc]

Here's an idea.  If UIL wants to be in charge, we should be allowed to elect our own officials to be put on the UIL board so that we can be in charge of decisions that affect us.  Any paid leaders with TASO should also be provided a paid position if they so desire.  Basically it will be the UIL and TASO working together for one common goal.  TASO can become a branch of the UIL. 

Jason, I share your thoughts.  When TT was in San Antonio last year, he kept talking about officials needing to be held accountable (as though we are not right now!).  So, I asked him who he was accountable to.  He said Dr. B.  That tells you right there what a mess this is.  TT is NOT accountable to the officials he would supposed to be representing.  If 99% of us disagree with the UIL, tough, we have no recourse.  We are to do as told and not buck the system. 

[Etref]

Here's an idea.  If UIL wants to be in charge, we should be allowed to elect our own officials to be put on the UIL board so that we can be in charge of decisions that affect us.  Any paid leaders with TASO should also be provided a paid position if they so desire.  Basically it will be the UIL and TASO working together for one common goal.  TASO can become a branch of the UIL. 

UIL has not shown any signs of willingness to negotiate before, I suspect they will not know.


As JVG said " our farewell tour" has begun



Rick

[TXMike]

It ain't over till it's over....from the Houston newspaper:

TASO expects to re-file lawsuit against UIL
By SAM KHAN JR.
The legal battle between the Texas Association of Sports Officials and the University Interscholastic League came to a halt on Friday, but it won’t be for long.

On Monday, TASO, the state’s governing body for sports officials, will continue its quest to prevent the UIL, the state’s governing body for high school athletics, from requiring officials to register with the league.

Though the state’s Third District Court of Appeals in Austin dismissed the case on Friday, it entered no opinion as to the merit of TASO’s claims whether the UIL has a legal right to require registration of officials that call its varsity contests.

Friday’s ruling clarified that the UIL is legally considered a state agency, meaning that any lawsuit against it must be filed against its director, not the entire organization. TASO’s original lawsuit, which was filed in December in the Travis County District Court, was against the organization itself. As the legal process played out, there was some confusion as to whether the UIL was an unincorporated association or a state agency until Friday.

TASO attorney Gary Schumann said on Saturday that the organization will re-file the lawsuit on Monday morning in the Travis County District Court, likely naming UIL executive director Charles Breithaupt as the defendant.

“I don’t view this as an unfavorable ruling,” Schumann said. “If anything it helps clarify what we need to do. The court didn't dismiss the substance of our argument.

“If anything, I think the UIL has a harder road now. If they’re a state agency they need to act like one and comply with the prerequisites and duties that any other state agency has.”

Breithaupt declined to comment on the matter on Saturday.

[TexDoc]

"If they’re a state agency they need to act like one and comply with the prerequisites and duties that any other state agency has."

In what ways does this require then to act differently than they have in the past?

Since they are a state agency, who does the UIL answer to?  Superintendents of school districts is not the right answer.  Is it the commissioner of education?  The TEA?  Exactly who?  If I don't like why they are doing, do I not have a vote for someone in office that can affect change on Manor Road?

[Arbitrator]

"If they’re a state agency they need to act like one and comply with the prerequisites and duties that any other state agency has."

In what ways does this require to act differently than they have in the past?

Since they are a state agency, who does the UIL answer to?  Superintendents of school districts is not the right answer.  If it the commissioner of education?  The TEA?  Exactly who?  If I don't like why they are doing, do I not have a vote for someone in office that can affect change on Manor Road?

 

I would say that the ultimate power would lie with our Texas Legislature! After all, they alone have the power of the pursebook and could summarily deny funding to the Good Folks over on Manor Road, thereby causing them to wither on the vine!  

[TexDoc]

I would say that the ultimate power would lie with our Texas Legislature! After all, they alone have the power of the pursebook and could summarily deny funding to the Good Folks over on Manor Road, thereby causing them to wither on the vine!  

Therein lies another issue.  The bulk, maybe all, of their funding comes from their members through membership fees and sports playoff games. 

[ballhog]

Great point Doc! 

[DallasLJ]

Based on the court's opinion, I think the UIL falls under UT.  So, I would think that they are governed by the President of UT, and thus the Board of Regents, who are appointed by the Governor.  Anybody want to give Perry a call?

[Cooter]

TASO will not now, nor will they ever win in any legal battle against the University of Texas.  And if you think politicians will become involved on our behalf putting themselves in a position to have an opponent say they went against the Longhorns for football officials, you are wrong. 

At what point in this legal battle will TASO become liable for the UIL legal fees?

[JasonTX]

Why is UIL a part of UT?  Did UT create the UIL?  Seems like a conflict of interest to be the governing body for high school sports.  Shouldn't the other Texas colleges be able to go out and create their own leagues and then give schools a choice as to which league they wanted to participate in.  Does this not give UT an unfair advantage for recruiting?  I am sure there are a lot of powerful people who didn't know that UIL was a part of UT.  If we can get them on our side who knows what can happen.

[DallasLJ]

Cooter

  It is extremely difficult to imagine a scenario where TASO could ever have to pay the UIL its fees.  Typically, the loser does not pay the winner's fees, unless the lawsuit is baseless, which this is not.  This lawsuit is simply tying to hold that the UIL exceeded its authority.  Since no one, not even the UIL, knows what that authority is, this can not be a baseless lawsuit.

[Arbitrator]

Why is UIL a part of UT?  Did UT create the UIL?  Seems like a conflict of interest to be the governing body for high school sports.  Shouldn't the other Texas colleges be able to go out and create their own leagues and then give schools a choice as to which league they wanted to participate in.  Does this not give UT an unfair advantage for recruiting?  I am sure there are a lot of powerful people who didn't know that UIL was a part of UT.  If we can get them on our side who knows what can happen.

 

Great point! Under that premise, why shouldn't Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and UTEP be thrown into the mix of things as "regional sports administrators" right alongside UT and its infamous UIL?

The fact of the matter is that the UIL is an organization without any constitutional oversight. So just who is the   Good UIL Drs. boss? Exactly who is it that gives him his annual performance review and his salary increases? Can anyone provide us with a state organizational chart that shows who is the   Good UIL Drs. supervisor? The sad fact of the matter is that there is no one who is Dr. B's boss. He gets to exist in his own little world where no one, not even in state government, can totally tell him what to do, or when to do it. With no one in apparent authority to reel him in, he seemingly appears to be nothing more than an unchecked tinhorn dictator whose sole existence seems to be defined by the most recent court ruling. Dr. Breithaupt will now get the opportunity to stand in the well of the court as a defendent, probably right alongside his hand-picked Director of Officials. The "new" lawsuit will be aimed at either prosecuting the  Good UIL Dr. and possibly other UIL officials as individuals, and/or forcing the UIL's hand to act responsibly as the mandated state agency that it and the Appeals Court say that it apparently is!