Championship Games

[TXMike]

The FTW games are both being covered by one crew. To say this caused a stir in our chapter would be a bit of understatement. I think there has to be a better way than what we do for crew selection but I hesitate to start charging at people with pitchforks because I don't have a solution. I would be like to hear real, thought out ideas that y'all might have for crew assignments.

They must have been picked  I can't imagine any Chapter in the State having such lack of confidence in their crews that they would assume they only had 1 capable of working these games   And if they are picked....well you now the rest

[FatboyHL]

The FTW games are both being covered by one crew. To say this caused a stir in our chapter would be a bit of understatement. I think there has to be a better way than what we do for crew selection but I hesitate to start charging at people with pitchforks because I don't have a solution. I would be like to hear real, thought out ideas that y'all might have for crew assignments.

I am reading to start charging with pitchforks at some of our leadership this year.  Not over the crew selected for the our chapter's state game, but the overall assignment of our playoffs.  With that said I don't have a solution either and so I am with you in hesitating to assault someone.   

[hefnerjm]

Speaking as a relative 'outsider' being that I've just finished my first year in Texas, it seems like until you get a unified message from all TASO Chapters, then the situation with coaches picking and related complaints about playoff assignments/picks will never change. 

It seems like one chapter might assign all games, while another allows a coach to pick varsity while assigning sub-varsity, while another chapter will let coaches abuse to the Nth degree just to get a chance to work their games, and then get burned come playoff time.

Until various chapters stop fighting each other for game assignments, the coaches will keep running the hen house.  The "us vs. them" should never be DAL vs. FTW or HOU vs. SAT.

Rather if an "us vs. them" must exist, it should be:
All Officials protecting the integrity of the game
vs.
Coaches and others who seek to get an unfair advantage (i.e. picking a "favorable" crew, "working" a crew to get calls, etc)

Will anyone have the stomach to champion such sweeping change?  Who knows...a forum discussion is likely not the place to change the hearts and minds, but maybe it will start the conversation.

[getnbetter]

Speaking as a relative 'outsider' being that I've just finished my first year in Texas, it seems like until you get a unified message from all TASO Chapters, then the situation with coaches picking and related complaints about playoff assignments/picks will never change. 

It seems like one chapter might assign all games, while another allows a coach to pick varsity while assigning sub-varsity, while another chapter will let coaches abuse to the Nth degree just to get a chance to work their games, and then get burned come playoff time.

Until various chapters stop fighting each other for game assignments, the coaches will keep running the hen house.  The "us vs. them" should never be DAL vs. FTW or HOU vs. SAT.

Rather if an "us vs. them" must exist, it should be:
All Officials protecting the integrity of the game
vs.
Coaches and others who seek to get an unfair advantage (i.e. picking a "favorable" crew, "working" a crew to get calls, etc)

Will anyone have the stomach to champion such sweeping change?  Who knows...a forum discussion is likely not the place to change the hearts and minds, but maybe it will start the conversation.

 

Well said sir.  Well said.

[HoustonRef]

Shocker

That Ruth fellow must be an exceptional official. Haha JK guys JK

[hefnerjm]

As a side note related to those seeking "alternative solutions", I can only speak from other methods that I have seen (namely Michigan).

I believe all games were assigned by chapter secretaries and coaches submitted ratings on officials on a 1 to 5 scale.  Those ratings were anonymous and were aggregated by the state to rank officials.  Officials were not eligilbe for playoff assignments until they had a minimum number of varsity game ratings (approx 2-3 years).  The state association assigned playoff games based on those ratings on the best average rating during a 3-year rolling period.  There was also a restriction that any given official/crew could only work a Championship game once every 3 years. 


I cant speak to the rationale behind all of those decisions or the way the system was set up, but it seemed to be a system that most could support and made logical sense while remaining fair.  The impression that I was left with at the beginning of my officiating career was that if you wanted to work playoff games and especially championship games, that you must consistently to work hard each year at refining your craft, and that has shaped the way I have approached the avocation since.


As many have said, there will always be someone who:

• complains about whatever system is used
• doesnt get playoff games and cries "politics"
• guys with 1 year of experience, 20 times

Nothing can be done about those that put forth minimal effort, but in my (albeit limited) experience, this category of official seem to be a small minority. 

The vast majority of people somewhere between 5 and 25 years of experience tend to be those who work hard and truly love officiating. 

Doesnt it make sense to try to objectively measure officials and reward as many of those officials as possible?  I think so.

[HoustonRef]

Still amuses me that this time a year, every year, grown men turn into gossipy middle school girls. Guaranteed several officials on here and even more that aren't on refstripes have spent hours this week calling their buddies and whining like little girls about how the system is unfair and they're better then all those crews working.

[TxSkyBolt]

Hefnerjm I'll submit that the rankings of coaches are a poor way to select playoff officials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TXMike]

It may be THE poorest way.   If it was good wouldn't NCAA and NFL be using it.   

[getnbetter]

Still amuses me that this time a year, every year, grown men turn into gossipy middle school girls. Guaranteed several officials on here and even more that aren't on refstripes have spent hours this week calling their buddies and whining like little girls about how the system is unfair and they're better then all those crews working.

What's even crazier is how these same officials ABSOLUTELY LOSE THEIR MINDS when assignments within the chapter come out and not only whine about how unfair the system is, but demean and belittle the people that are working and immediately suggest that they must be soliciting because "there is now way they are good enough to work that game." Unbelieveable...

[txboy79]

Hefnerjm I'll submit that the rankings of coaches are a poor way to select playoff officials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How exactly is going off of coach rankings a poor way to select playoff officials, butttttt allowing coaches to pick crews works??? I mean let's be honest, coaches run everything in football in this state.

[FatboyHL]

What's even crazier is how these same officials ABSOLUTELY LOSE THEIR MINDS when assignments within the chapter come out and not only whine about how unfair the system is, but demean and belittle the people that are working and immediately suggest that they must be soliciting because "there is now way they are good enough to work that game." Unbelieveable...

I resemble this remark at times. 

[hefnerjm]

Hefnerjm I'll submit that the rankings of coaches are a poor way to select playoff officials.

I am not saying it is the best or most ideal method...I am simply saying that 1) that is what I have seen work, and 2) in theory, ratings aggregated across years should be relatively objective. (i.e. coaches should despise all officials equally).

It may be THE poorest way.   If it was good wouldn't NCAA and NFL be using it.   

Again, not saying it is a good way...but rather offering a possible solution to those bemoaning the system without any suggestions for improvement.

Two questions Mike: 
1) how does the NCAA and NFL do it? (Im guessing it isnt coaches picks).  I believe the NFL uses supervisors reviewing and "grading" officials...so, effectively it is a ratings system...just where the ratings are provided by supervisors rather than coaches.

and 2) if those organizations do something and UIL/TASO doesnt do those things, what is the rationale for why we dont adopt those best practices? (i.e. if it isnt cost effective to have supervisors review the film for all officials, then wouldnt coaches be the next most informed?).
 

[Welpe]

  If it was good wouldn't NCAA and NFL be using it.   

You could apply this to the current system now. Of course inertia is a helluva thing and this system has had decades of inertia.

With how much Texas HS football resembles college football in several ways and the desire to continue emulating college football, I am surprised in a way that a conference commissioner type system hasn't been implemented. Granted there are A LOT more high schools in Texas than universities in a typical conference but I could see something similar being developed. The commissioner system seems to work in other states.

One of two things will cause this system to change:

1) An act of the Texas state legislature or;

2) Enough coaches being unhappy with the current system due to enough egregious issues (perceived or otherwise) that they demand a change.

Another thing to think about: There is already a lot of bad blood between TASO and the UIL over the past decade or so. We already see how little regard there is towards sports officials in general, especially in Texas. Fact is more than a few outright hate us and think we're all incompetent oafs. Officials demanding less control over football from the coaches is only going to widen that chasm.

Getting all of the big chapters in line to demand a change is a fruitless endeavor also. In just Houston alone wanting to make a change gets rumbled about from time to time but those with a vested interest work to ensure the system stays the way it is. And I guarantee you that once those folks are no longer around, those that replace them will do the same because "it is their turn."

In short, I think there's a better chance of banning guns in Texas than there is enacting a meaningful change to the way football is played.

[hefnerjm]

In short, I think there's a better chance of banning guns in Texas than there is enacting a meaningful change to the way football is played.

Well...this is quite the killjoy for an optimistic young official with dreams of making a positive difference. 
 

[cwag]

The solutions to this problem is obvious.  Take the coaches selecting officials out of the mix.  One can assume the coaches want a neutral crew. Well, when they ask for a crew by name its no longer a neutral crew.  Trouble is that most coaches really want a crew they can "work".  Case in point...two Dallas area schools are matched up beyond round 1 and coach A asks for a crew that coach B would never agree to.  As far as I know, there was no further discussion or negotiating. They just went somewhere else.

Now with the championship games...I like the suggestion of limiting a crew to working one game every three years.  At some point, these "championship" crews are going to take off the stripes or suffer from diminishing skills and not work anymore.  Other crews have to be ready to fill the gap.  These four or five crews we see every year are really good at what they do.  I have been told that many coaches ask crews with championship game experience.  Well, there are only ten each year so somehow UIL/TASO has to spread the wealth around.

One last thing... go over to scout.com and read the thread "REFS, you get what you pay for..." and see what these coaches really think about our work...most of us already know

[TXMike]

How exactly is going off of coach rankings a poor way to select playoff officials, butttttt allowing coaches to pick crews works??? I mean let's be honest, coaches run everything in football in this state.

I never said allowing them to pick crews works either

[Etref]

I agree with the inequity. Always been there, likely always will.

But no matter how they are assigned, someone will get butt hurt!   

[hefnerjm]

I never said allowing them to pick crews works either

Mike,
I am pretty sure you are widely respected and many folks (myself included) would like to hear what you think would be a viable solution to this quandary

[goodgrr]

I think there has to be a better way than what we do for crew selection but I hesitate to start charging at people with pitchforks because I don't have a solution. I would be like to hear real, thought out ideas that y'all might have for crew assignments.

As people have said there is no perfect solution, however Id agree that your current situation leaves a lot to be desired.

Over in the UK we have a selection panel consisting of six members  and a chairman (2 members stand  down each year).


"The Selection Committee shall use a rating system as a tool to help it in its work. The system shall combine a number of factors (which may be changed from time to time). Each factor is scored out of 100 then a weighting applied to give a score for each official. The table below lists the current factors and the weight they will count towards the final rating:

• experience in years and games  10%
  exam marks 30%
  quality of judgement (peer assessed) 10%
  reaction under pressure (peer assessed) 10%
  assessors' marks 30% (normalised average of assessments in last 2 years)
  game report marks (crew self-assessment) 5%
  coaches card marks 5%"

Our system does of course put forward the best officials for each position not a full crew.  Not a perfect system but has got to be better than coaches selecting.
 

[HoustonRef]

The FTW games are both being covered by one crew. To say this caused a stir in our chapter would be a bit of understatement. I think there has to be a better way than what we do for crew selection but I hesitate to start charging at people with pitchforks because I don't have a solution. I would be like to hear real, thought out ideas that y'all might have for crew assignments.

So was the FTW crew that's working two finals get selected or were they coach picks?

[gdp1018]

The coaches selected the crew from FTW for both games they are covering this weekend.

[FWref2015]

Just to clarify, the discussion in the FW chapter is not about the crew working both games, it is whether the BOD violated OP and written contracts.

[TexDoc]

Unfortunately, what are seeing (2 crews working 2 games each) is the result of our present system.  The UIL, in their infinite wisdom, has dictated that coaches have all of the power to agree to their officials, which somehow has been bastardized to "coaches get to pick their officials."  The UIL rules do not dictate picking of officials.  Each chapter makes that decision.  Coaches, according to UIL rules, have to "mutually agree" to the officials that will call their game.  Nowhere do the UIL rules deal with "picking officials." 

Mutual Agreement means that the coaches have to both concur to the assignment of the officials that will be working their game.  Some chapters take the call from the UIL or coaches for playoffs and tell the coaches they can pick, and some chapters tell the coaches, give us your guidelines (all D1, playoff experience, racial diversity) and we will assign a crew that you will have to agree upon before they work the game. 

Unless the UIL specifically addresses the "picking" of officials, which can clearly lead to conflicts of interest, it is very unlikely to ever change.  The UIL does whatever it can to keep football coaches happy, since football playoff games are by far their main source of revenue. 

Chapters that allow picking of officials are unlikely to change, since this puts the decision making in the hands of chapter leaders.  Allowing coaches to pick officials is akin to allowing you to select what cop gets to sit on the side of the road you travel on each day.  You want him to write tickets and slow down all the drivers that are not your friends and family. 

The chapters that do a combination or solely assign also have their share of issues.  Someone will always be in disagreement with who or how when it comes to the assignments.  And, there is always the potential for those in power to abuse their power and take what they want. 

For those of us not working 2 games this week, or even 1, we have to decide if officiating high school football in Texas is something we want to continue to do or if volleyball or maybe fishing might be a better alternative.  For me, I'll continue for a few more years, but what we are seeing this weekend sure doesn't make me want to stick around too much longer.  When it's no longer fun, time to hand it up.  That gets closer at the end of every year.

[ETXZebra]

For those of us not working 2 games this week, or even 1, we have to decide if officiating high school football in Texas is something we want to continue to do or if volleyball or maybe fishing might be a better alternative.  For me, I'll continue for a few more years, but what we are seeing this weekend sure doesn't make me want to stick around too much longer.  When it's no longer fun, time to hand it up.  That gets closer at the end of every year.

I'm with you Doc. It's a decision some of us are considering. I'll hang in there, but the future doesn't look too bright.