Author Topic: UIL or TASO  (Read 333909 times)

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Offline Getting Fat

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #325 on: August 31, 2010, 10:18:14 AM »
"I say again, the lawsuit gave many of us at least 1 more season. " 

You sell it short.

There really is a half glass full way of looking at this.  The lawsuit went through an appellate process that bought an injunction allowing business as usual for one year.  The dismissal left wide open a new suit against the individuals - a whole new legal process.  Furthermore, it was written in such a way that a new suit is likely to survive a summary judgment motion - meaning the case would not be disposed of until a trial on the merits (could be years down the road).

The suit didn't just buy TASO one year, it bought TASO one MORE year (your statement without the "least" component to it).

TASO comes to the table with the threat of a new suit against the individuals that likely would make it to a trial.  Aside from the:  "Yes, the attorney general will likely defend the named individuals, no the AG's office doesn't care about the expense of litigating it."  TASO should not enter the room with its tail between the legs.

He says from his soap box.

Cooter

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #326 on: August 31, 2010, 11:05:01 AM »


 :bOW    :bOW    :bOW

I understand the first words out of the District Director's mouth last night at the Tyler Chapter meeting were "we lost the lawsuit."  Is that correct Rick?

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #327 on: August 31, 2010, 11:22:08 AM »
I understand the first words out of the District Director's mouth last night at the Tyler Chapter meeting were "we lost the lawsuit."  Is that correct Rick?

Actually his first words were telling the crew that worked the ESPN game they did a good job. However, he did say they "lost the lawsuit" but then said it could be refiled against Breithaupt individually just not against the UIL.

If you want to deal in semantics you can. The lawsuit was ruled in favor of UIL on sovereign immunity not on basis of fact. Either way, we are at the point of talking with UIL which is where it should have been 2 years ago. Who is to blame for that, I do not know. As I said before, we need something in writing from UIL because words have a way of changing down the line.


Rick
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Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #328 on: August 31, 2010, 11:26:30 AM »
Rick -
Was that the game with the "pretty" blue bean bags?

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #329 on: August 31, 2010, 11:56:44 AM »
Yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that was the one!


" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #330 on: August 31, 2010, 12:38:27 PM »
 ^flag

So by virtue of the recent ruling by the Third Court of Appeals, a lot of folks are saying that "we/TASO" lost! If you read between the lines, it gives TASO another vehicle in which to perfect its legal action against the UIL. The Appeals Court made no comment about or even bothered to mention the facts of the case. They only opined that the UIL as a state agency was indeed entitled to its plea of sovereign immunity. It furthermore pointed out that TASO could go forward with its legal action by naming the individual or individuals within the UIL who may have egregiously acted outside of the scope of their authority. I'm sorry: but I fail to see that this translates in any way into a loss, but much rather as just a legal course correction! Mr. Schumann's published Saturday comments from the Houston Chronicle seemed to be moreso upbeat and optimistic.

The next thing we know, we're given the dictum by TASO State that we are going to pursue this all from a position of negotiation with the UIL. We have been given a trump card by the Court and are failing to fully take advantage of it.

It is certainly not a well-guarded secret that the UIL is mired in some financial trouble of its own. That is why they are pursuing the officiating registration fees and increasing participation in the UIL playoffs. That translates into money in the bank for them; money that is sorely needed by them in order to stem the rising debt that has been incurred by the UIL. The lawsuit should duly go forward and name Breithaupt and Timmons as defendents as the Appeals Court suggested. This forces the "Dynamic Duo" into the deposition and the witness chairs to answer all of the hard questions that all of us in TASO would love to hear in their labored attempt to answer them. It could very well force the good UIL Dr. to try to possibly rely on the legal doctrine of respondeat superior. To that end, the Good Dr. would have to say that he was ordered by "higher-ups" to pursue his course of action against TASO. In order to keep his rear out of hot water, he might just go there!

Under the Open Records Act, the financial records of both the UIL and the UT Department that houses it would certainly come into play. The Good UIL Dr. can't seem to keep his stories straight as it is. When the financial records from the UIL are subpoenaed and brought into light, what would make a reasonable man think that this would in any way improve the Good UIL Drs. memory? It just lays even more stumbling blocks before him.

If TASO absolutely must give in to the process of negotiation, they should do so from a logistical position of giving the UIL only so much time to adhere to our demands. Namely, they should be that the UIL would receive only a token registration of no more than $10.00 per official annually, and that would be for registering for one or twenty sports. I feel that the UIL should summarily dissolve the other officiating divisions that it has so recently set up and sign a statement to the effect that they are getting out of the officiating business on a permanent basis, and will make no further attempt to organize or even assign officials to any contest.

When putting itself into the unenviable position of having to negotiate with rattlesnakes, TASO needs to carry a big stick, a shovel, and a shotgun! And if we must negotiate, please make sure that Mr. Schumann is on the negotiation team. We must negotiate from a position of strength and not go into this seeking common ground with a known adversary whose agenda has been to stretch out our necks, cut our throats, and tell us how good it's going to feel! They should know by now and all too well, that TASO has the ability to squarely place them behind the 8-Ball. And if TASO loses, then Mr. Timmons can start with his stated crusade to go from door to door, if need be, in order to recruit the new officials to help the UIL in stemming the tide in the severe projected shortfall in the number of high school officials in the State of Texas!   z^
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 12:54:02 PM by arbitrator »

Chikenwang

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #331 on: August 31, 2010, 03:08:29 PM »
<<<Wonders if there should be a vote amongst the brethren to determine if we want to push the suit forward or negotiate? I say push the suit forward.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #332 on: August 31, 2010, 03:12:09 PM »
I would normally agree to push forward with the suit, but I am also curious as to what the UIL would negotiate.  If we don't like what they have to say in the process of negotiating, then we still have the lawuit to throw at the individuals.

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #333 on: August 31, 2010, 03:26:12 PM »
I would normally agree to push forward with the suit, but I am also curious as to what the UIL would negotiate.  If we don't like what they have to say in the process of negotiating, then we still have the lawuit to throw at the individuals.

I agree, talk first. We had tried that before the lawsuit but UIL did not want to sit down.  You can always go down the legal route if needed.

Probably a good thing some of us are not involved in the negotiations................................. yEs:
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #334 on: August 31, 2010, 04:21:02 PM »
I agree, talk first. We had tried that before the lawsuit but UIL did not want to sit down.  You can always go down the legal route if needed.

Probably a good thing some of us are not involved in the negotiations................................. yEs:

I would think that Dr. B would not want to be name individually in a lawsuit.  To avoid that he knows that TASO must be happy with any resolution from a negotiation. 

Headlinesman

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #335 on: August 31, 2010, 08:13:54 PM »
Guys, before you work yourselves into a frenzy over the prospects of refiling the lawsuit, you might want some lawyer, smarter than me, to explain the rule of law concerning "In the course and scope of his duties" as it would apply to Dr. B and Mr. T.  AND, as you read the 3rd Court's opinion, please do not fall into the trap of "reading between the lines."  Appellate judges are not in the habit of putting hidden messages - when they write the majority opinion, they just write it.  When they are writing a dissenting opinion, they are about as plain spoken as a Judge can be.  There's old expression out of the West Texas oil fields that talks about throwing money down a dry hole.  I understand the position of those of you want to re-file our lawsuit while the iron is hot, but I hope that decision will be made not as a knee-jerk reaction, but after a long and thoughtful reflective process, and after having had ALL possible legal ramifications explored. 

Cooter

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #336 on: August 31, 2010, 09:06:52 PM »
Guys, before you work yourselves into a frenzy over the prospects of refiling the lawsuit, you might want some lawyer, smarter than me, to explain the rule of law concerning "In the course and scope of his duties" as it would apply to Dr. B and Mr. T.  AND, as you read the 3rd Court's opinion, please do not fall into the trap of "reading between the lines."  Appellate judges are not in the habit of putting hidden messages - when they write the majority opinion, they just write it.  When they are writing a dissenting opinion, they are about as plain spoken as a Judge can be.  There's old expression out of the West Texas oil fields that talks about throwing money down a dry hole.  I understand the position of those of you want to re-file our lawsuit while the iron is hot, but I hope that decision will be made not as a knee-jerk reaction, but after a long and thoughtful reflective process, and after having had ALL possible legal ramifications explored. 

Well said fart.

rickref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #337 on: September 01, 2010, 07:36:20 AM »
I think at this point I am grateful for Fitch and the work he is doing trying to negotiate this thing out. I trust him and feel he is right guy to have there working on this.

I like Docs ideas on this situation and it is much in line with my feelings as a good way to resolve this and work with the UIL in the long run.

Even though I have to keep an eye on this I am much more concerned about pre snap routines, keys, subs, man zone ball, etc etc etc.

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #338 on: September 02, 2010, 05:58:12 AM »
Any word on the points of negotiation or the mood?  We need an update!!!! eAt&

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #339 on: September 02, 2010, 07:04:13 AM »
Based on my experience, negotiations of this type take time.  This is not something that gets done over a two phone calls.  They have to schedule a conference with all the parties, including attorneys.  Talk things though, go back and think, get together again and continue this process as long as they are making progress on the issues.  Since this involves control issues more than just a monetary settlement, no one should reasonably expect to hear anything for 4 - 6 weeks.  Sooner would be great, but not expected.  Regular updates from TASO would not be helpful because these types of things are very fluid.  The only update you would get is "the parties are still talking, more later."

  Just go about your season for now.

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #340 on: September 04, 2010, 10:20:25 PM »
I was just told by a very close friend of TT that on 9/6/10, the UIL will begin registering officials.  According to him, the local chapters will choose which organization to affilliate with, but that all individual officials must register with UIL.

Does anyone know the particulars?  Is there a registration fee?  Is this a result of the recent negotiations?
What's up?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 10:55:41 PM by blindref757 »

ornery1

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #341 on: September 04, 2010, 10:42:55 PM »
I can't wait!!!! Tony, show me where and when and we will get the troops behind you. To hell with TASO and Ray Parker......Oh wait ain't he in jail.  LMAO

110

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #342 on: September 05, 2010, 07:23:44 AM »
From far and away, what do the kids think?
After all, that's why we do what we do, right?

What a bunch of pathetic and needless political bulltwaddle.

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #343 on: September 05, 2010, 07:31:14 AM »
From far and away, what do the kids think?
After all, that's why we do what we do, right?

What a bunch of pathetic and needless political bulltwaddle.

I dopubt the kids even know it is going on.  Most adults don't even know it is going on.  Luckily for you , you don't have to know about it either as you are not required to click on the topic.

I would think even Canadians would have a basic understanding of rights and freedom.  That is what this is about, not "politics".
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 07:51:20 AM by TXMike »

110

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #344 on: September 05, 2010, 09:20:24 AM »
If yer getting to the point of suing each other, hang 'em up. Life's too important.

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #345 on: September 05, 2010, 09:41:17 AM »
Some things are worth fighting for.  Surrender is not in some of our vocabularires

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #346 on: September 05, 2010, 12:07:01 PM »
We aren't like the Frenchie Frenchmen...we are willing to fight for what we believe in.

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #347 on: September 05, 2010, 01:16:38 PM »
If yer getting to the point of suing each other, hang 'em up. Life's too important.


That is the sad part of all of this.

A lot of us will hang it up!


" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline TexDoc

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #348 on: September 05, 2010, 02:04:06 PM »
Just a wild guess on my part, but my money is on TASO heading back down to the courthouse Tuesday.  You cannot trust the people on Manor Road.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #349 on: September 05, 2010, 05:43:07 PM »
Just a wild guess on my part, but my money is on TASO heading back down to the courthouse Tuesday.  You cannot trust the people on Manor Road.

 ^flag

TexDoc: I as well as a lot of other TASO people sure hope and pray that the continuance of the UIL lawsuit comes back to fruition! We've invested far too much of our resources and our energy in TASO to see a group on tinhorn wannabes swoop down and attempt to control this great avocation of ours! My mantra is to fight for our beloved organization against this UIL tyranny or to die figuratively in the process!   z^
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 05:44:45 PM by arbitrator »