Author Topic: Keep our minds working...  (Read 10135 times)

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Offline Dakota Dan

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 08:22:52 PM »
I'm answering this one because it is a sore subject with me.  I don't give a rats bohunkus what any coach claims about a barked signal being a legal defensive signal.  Baloney.  If the signal is verbal, and called in such a way that causes Team A to react, that is a "disconcerting signal," and is a dead-ball delay-of-game foul.  Yes, they are allowed to make a verbal signal, must it must not be made in a way that disconcerts Team A.  Period.  End of story.

Same with those abrupt movements by d-linemen while Team A is preparing to snap the ball.  No, coach, you can't make a movement like, even if Team A doesn't react, and danged sure if they DO react.  Dead-ball, delay of game.


The problem is that we don't have enough of our guys having the nads to make this call, to put a stop to this practice.  One guy gets away with it, and he tells his coaching buddies that it is legal, and they start doing it.  Then someone does call it, and they go ballistic, like we just stole their favorite pair of sunglasses (off the top of their head during a night game).

Make the call.

 

I agree with you 100% and unfortunately you got a new power 5 coach coming to your neck of the woods in Lubbock that has a long history of doing just as you said at Utah State.  So, expect to see a trickle down effect in West Texas.  R. Redding has addressed this back in 2012 (2012 PLAY INTERPRETATIONS BULLETIN NO. 3, play 3) and I thought it would find its way in the rule book in the case plays but to date there is no mention and coaches continue to do it and get away with it
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:24:34 PM by Dakota Dan »

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2019, 10:41:46 PM »
I agree with you 100% and unfortunately you got a new power 5 coach coming to your neck of the woods in Lubbock that has a long history of doing just as you said at Utah State.  So, expect to see a trickle down effect in West Texas.  R. Redding has addressed this back in 2012 (2012 PLAY INTERPRETATIONS BULLETIN NO. 3, play 3) and I thought it would find its way in the rule book in the case plays but to date there is no mention and coaches continue to do it and get away with it

7-1-5-a-5 is how I shut this stuff down.  I know a lot of coaches think that only mimicking the snap count was illegal but the rule is pretty clear that,  "No player use words or signals that disconcert the opponents".

Last year we called it against a team in a district game and the coach didn't like it, but come playoff time he requested our crew to come work a game. 

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2019, 05:26:53 AM »
Absent any fouls A would put the ball in play on the next down, but I don't believe that applies. For the sake of discussion, let's go with team B in possession. Since they obtained the ball with clean hands they can decline A's foul if they want. They wouldn't do that though because then A would decline B's foul and take the result of the play: touchback 1st and 10 at the A-20. Better field position and a first down. B's other choice would be to accept A's penalty which results in a replay of the down, 3rd and 9 at the A-14. B would choose that option every time.

If you feel A is in team possession at the end of the down, they don't have any options because they fouled  before gaining possession. It's a double foul replay the down at the previous spot. 3rd and 9 at the A-14.

In this case it doesn't matter, but if it was 3rd and goal at the B-8 and this happened, B would likely decline the penalty and move A back to their own 20 even if it's a first down.

So either way we end up with A next snapping at their 9 yard line after previous spot enforcement of the 5 yd penalty.  Would the enforcement options and the order they are given in be any different if instead of the loose ball hitting the pylon, the loose ball was recovered in the EZ by team A?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 07:02:50 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2019, 12:20:05 PM »
Back to the touchback play,

Quote
I will disagree with your answer. There is a question over who has team possession at the end of the down. I say it's team B because they were the last team in possession during the down. Absent any fouls A would put the ball in play on the next down, but I don't believe that applies. For the sake of discussion, let's go with team B in possession. Since they obtained the ball with clean hands they can decline A's foul if they want. They wouldn't do that though because then A would decline B's foul and take the result of the play: touchback 1st and 10 at the A-20. Better field position and a first down. B's other choice would be to accept A's penalty which results in a replay of the down, 3rd and 9 at the A-14. B would choose that option every time.

This is the correct interpretation. The touchback is NOT a change of possession during the down. This was part of a CFO test question 2 years ago based on a play that happened in a bowl game. The scenario was a roughing the passer where the pass was caught, advanced and fumbled and the fumble hit the pylon. The correct answer is that the RPS is enforced from the spot of the fumble because that is the last run and there was no change of possession during the down.  So in our play, B gets the option and will want to offset the fouls and replay 3rd down. If they decide to decline A's foul, A will decline theirs as well and A will get the touchback.


Quote
Would the enforcement options and the order they are given in be any different if instead of the loose ball hitting the pylon, the loose ball was recovered in the EZ by team A?

Yes. Because now we have another change of possession during the down. Now A is the last team to have possession and they fouled before last gaining possession. That means the fouls automatically offset and nobody gets an option.

Offline Magician

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2019, 04:17:02 PM »
So either way we end up with A next snapping at their 9 yard line after previous spot enforcement of the 5 yd penalty.  Would the enforcement options and the order they are given in be any different if instead of the loose ball hitting the pylon, the loose ball was recovered in the EZ by team A?
No, we end up with replaying the down at the 14. It's s double foul so the penalties offset. I agree with Legacy's answer to your other question.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 12:50:31 PM »
No, we end up with replaying the down at the 14. It's s double foul so the penalties offset. I agree with Legacy's answer to your other question.

Nitpicking: there is no such term as a double foul in NCAA (I think there is in NFHS). We just talk about the offsetting penalties, the fouls are what they are. (I know that you know but sloppy language and so forth)

Offline Morningrise

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2019, 09:46:51 AM »
Okay new one.

1/10 @ A-20. Team A is stationary in a legal formation, but they don't realize they have only ten players. The eleventh player starts running onto the field and is inside the numbers at a) the A-18, or b) the A-22, when the ball is snapped. Dead-ball or live-ball foul?

Offline dvasques

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 04:34:53 PM »
Dead ball
FST for not having all players set

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2019, 04:41:20 PM »
I'd have a blow & throw dead ball false start in both cases since at no time were all 11 Team A players set for 1 second before the snap.  Also, can't be in "legal motion" since legal motion can only be after player has been set for 1 full second and the motion started on Team A's side of the NZ which it couldn't have done here (ball at A-20).

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Offline Kalle

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2019, 02:12:43 AM »
IMO at least in b) the 11th uniformed squad member is still a substitute and has not become a player, so I have a live-ball substitution foul.

Offline Magician

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2019, 08:10:57 AM »
IMO at least in b) the 11th uniformed squad member is still a substitute and has not become a player, so I have a live-ball substitution foul.
This is a messed up play and you are best to shut it down, especially in B since the A player is on the B side of the ball at the snap. False start is an appropriate call in both instances. You could also go with encroachment on B since he's on the wrong side of the ball. Nothing good comes from allowing the play to continue.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2019, 08:20:15 AM »
A single player moving is neither a huddle, nor a shift.  So, when the Team A sub enters the field of play from his team area, he has committed no foul.  There is no rule or AR compelling a single substitute, who becomes a player when he gets into the formation - even while moving -  to stop before the ball may be snapped.  As long as he is not moving forward at the snap, his motion is legal.  I see no FOUL here.

However, when he enters the field, Team B must be given opportunity to substitute, and that opportunity doesn't start until the A sub gets into the formation. So, once we, in our minds, declare him to be in the formation, then Team B has three seconds to BEGIN a substitution, and then a reasonable amount of time (by our judgment) to put their substitute(s) in place in their formation.  We should be taking steps to prevent the snap until Team B has their folks in position.  If the play clock expires, we follow the procedures in the penalty statement of 3-5-2-e.
However, if Team B chooses not to sub, or completes their substitution before the ball is snapped, this would appear to be a legal play, even if, somehow, the Team A sub never stopped, and is still moving at the snap (unless he is moving forward).

The rule that everyone is using to make this a false start (7-1-2-b-5) refers to an illegal shift that converts to a false start.  An illegal shift requires two or more "players" to have been moving simultaneously.  The entire team on the field, although only 10 players, had stopped for more than one second before the sub entered the field.  When the sub became a player, he was the only one moving.  There is no rule that compels him to stop.

Is that what the rules makers intend?  I dunno.  Ask them.  But the rule language doesn't support a foul here.  If they want a single sub to also have to stop (instantly or for one full second), they need to edit to the rules to make it so.

Robert
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:54:33 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline centexsports

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2019, 09:04:34 AM »
I think common sense while not always appropriate must prevail on a play like this.   Let's change this a bit and put the ball on the A-45.   With 6 seconds left on the play clock, A80 runs into the game at the A-40 and never stops before the snap and catches a pass behind an swinging gate alignment.   Or better still, what if the swinging gate is on the B side of the ball and A80 runs on the field from the opposite side where no defensive men are and catches a pass and goes in untouched.   Or maybe the 11th player is the tight end. 

The point is, this play has to be shut down and call any 5 yard penalty you like.   I don't think you will get an argument from the sideline.  The coach was either trying to gain an advantage or he will be chewing out his offensive coordinator.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:06:47 AM by centexsports »

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2019, 11:17:54 AM »
I think common sense while not always appropriate must prevail on a play like this.   Let's change this a bit and put the ball on the A-45.   With 6 seconds left on the play clock, A80 runs into the game at the A-40 and never stops before the snap and catches a pass behind an swinging gate alignment.   Or better still, what if the swinging gate is on the B side of the ball and A80 runs on the field from the opposite side where no defensive men are and catches a pass and goes in untouched.   Or maybe the 11th player is the tight end. 

The point is, this play has to be shut down and call any 5 yard penalty you like.   I don't think you will get an argument from the sideline.  The coach was either trying to gain an advantage or he will be chewing out his offensive coordinator.

Centex, not necessarily arguing with you, philosophically, but, if we perform the substitution mechanics we are supposed to do, the scenarios you describe are nearly impossible to occur.
 
Would I like for 7-1-2-b to be edited to add:
7-1-2-b-6:  An incoming substitute, or a substitute that becomes a player, never coming to a one-second stop prior to the snap after the ball is ready for play.  This is an illegal substitution that converts to a false start.

Sure. That would give us the rule support needed to make this a dead-ball foul (at the moment the ball is moved to ostensibly snap the ball).  But, as it is, it ain't so.

Robert


Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 12:11:00 PM »
If we are to say the incoming substitute is in "legal motion" how do we resolve 7.1.5.b:

2. The player who goes in motion may not start from the line of scrimmage unless he first becomes a back and comes to a complete stop.
3. A player in motion at the snap must have satisfied the one-second rule—i.e., he may not start his motion before any shift has ended (Rule 2-22-1-c).

Additionally, if we say he is "legally in motion" that by definition implies that the remaining team members have been legally set prior to him going in motion, and since he has to enter from the team area, those two items are mutually exclusive IMHO since he would be on the wrong side of the NZ and not set as he is entering the field and prior to going in motion.  At a minimum IMHO we have to have an illegal shift that converts to a false start at the snap?  How can we actually consider him to be in "legal motion"?
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2019, 05:04:16 PM »
If we are to say the incoming substitute is in "legal motion" how do we resolve 7.1.5.b:

2. The player who goes in motion may not start from the line of scrimmage unless he first becomes a back and comes to a complete stop.
3. A player in motion at the snap must have satisfied the one-second rule—i.e., he may not start his motion before any shift has ended (Rule 2-22-1-c).

Additionally, if we say he is "legally in motion" that by definition implies that the remaining team members have been legally set prior to him going in motion, and since he has to enter from the team area, those two items are mutually exclusive IMHO since he would be on the wrong side of the NZ and not set as he is entering the field and prior to going in motion.  At a minimum IMHO we have to have an illegal shift that converts to a false start at the snap?  How can we actually consider him to be in "legal motion"?

What shift?  A shift requires two or more players to be moving simultaneously.  In this play, the sub simply enters the field, from his team area, AFTER all of the players on the field have been stopped for more than one second.  There is no shift here - only a single sub/player in motion.  A sub is allowed to pass through the NZ to get to his side of the NZ.  In this play, he would still be the only player moving, so there is no shift here.  Nothing compels a singular player moving to stop and be set for one second before the snap, and there is no language that prohibits that from being a sub who becomes a player.  An no language compels an incoming sub/player to stop to become a back - only if he comes from a position on the line.  He didn't - he came from off the field. 
But, like I said, if we do our job correctly, we don't let the ball get snapped until B has had a chance to recognize the substitution and, likewise, make a substitution.  That should give Team B ample opportunity to make a substitution, and make sure this guy gets covered.

Am I saying this should be allowed?  Not at all.  I'm just saying the current rule language does not prohibit the scenario given. The suggested rule addition would solve this problem, totally, if that is what the rules makers want.  Easy.  Just do it.

Robert

Offline Magician

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2019, 09:09:26 PM »
What shift?  A shift requires two or more players to be moving simultaneously.  In this play, the sub simply enters the field, from his team area, AFTER all of the players on the field have been stopped for more than one second.  There is no shift here - only a single sub/player in motion.  A sub is allowed to pass through the NZ to get to his side of the NZ.  In this play, he would still be the only player moving, so there is no shift here.  Nothing compels a singular player moving to stop and be set for one second before the snap, and there is no language that prohibits that from being a sub who becomes a player.  An no language compels an incoming sub/player to stop to become a back - only if he comes from a position on the line.  He didn't - he came from off the field. 
But, like I said, if we do our job correctly, we don't let the ball get snapped until B has had a chance to recognize the substitution and, likewise, make a substitution.  That should give Team B ample opportunity to make a substitution, and make sure this guy gets covered.

Am I saying this should be allowed?  Not at all.  I'm just saying the current rule language does not prohibit the scenario given. The suggested rule addition would solve this problem, totally, if that is what the rules makers want.  Easy.  Just do it.

Robert

I think you are manipulating the rule and using an interpretation to support a point you don't believe should be true. The substitute becomes a player at some point and once he does he must have been set for 1 second prior to the snap. Period. It's not more complicated than that. In order to be legally in motion at the snap he needs to establish himself as a back (needs to be set to be a back) so he's also guilty of illegal motion.

The rule is fine the way it is and to try to interpret it otherwise is trying to show you are smarter than everyone else. You are too respected on this board to become that guy.

Offline Navcom

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2019, 12:37:00 PM »
These were challenging

A 4/10 @ A-30. Team A in scrimmage kick formation punts the ball. B17, who is @ B-30 to receive the kick,
(a)  gives a valid fair catch signal.
(b) gives an invalid fair catch signal.
(c) gives no signal.
B17 then muffs the kick up into the air while still having an opportunity to complete the catch. After the muff A37 contacts B17 @ B-32 before B17 completes the catch @ B-33 on one knee.

A 2/5 @ B-14 on the left hash. A11 throws a pass to A88. As the pass is in the air, B18 hooks and turns A88
(a) @ B-1 right hash,
(b) @ B-4 right hash,
(c) @ the left side zone in the end zone,
resulting in an incomplete pass.


Offline Kalle

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2019, 01:34:28 PM »
What shift?  A shift requires two or more players to be moving simultaneously.

True, but the rule 7-1-2-a says that after a shift and before the snap, all team A players must come to an absolute stop. I think the incoming uniformed squad member must fulfill this requirement after he becomes a player, if he becomes a player after a shift.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2019, 01:37:07 PM »
These were challenging

A 4/10 @ A-30. Team A in scrimmage kick formation punts the ball. B17, who is @ B-30 to receive the kick,
(a)  gives a valid fair catch signal.
(b) gives an invalid fair catch signal.
(c) gives no signal.
B17 then muffs the kick up into the air while still having an opportunity to complete the catch. After the muff A37 contacts B17 @ B-32 before B17 completes the catch @ B-33 on one knee.

A 2/5 @ B-14 on the left hash. A11 throws a pass to A88. As the pass is in the air, B18 hooks and turns A88
(a) @ B-1 right hash,
(b) @ B-4 right hash,
(c) @ the left side zone in the end zone,
resulting in an incomplete pass.

NAVCOM,
You probably already know - in the first question, there are two different results for the three scenarios presented.

In A), since it was a valid fair catch signal, B17 is protected with the "extended kick catch interference" privilege after the muff.  So, A37 is guilty of Kick Catch Interference.  Since this is a punt, the 15-yard penalty would be enforced from the spot of the foul, the B-32, so the next down will be B, 1/10, B-47, GC=snap, PC=25.  (As a side note, before enforcement of the penalty, the ball belongs to Team B at the spot where B17 first touched the ball, which would seem to the B-30.)
In B), since it was an invalid fair catch signal, there is no extended KCI protection, the contact by A37 is legal, since it occurred after B17 touched the ball (and we have no indication that he violated the 1 yard clear area in front of B17).  There is no foul, so the next down will be B, 1/10, B-33, GC=snap, PC=25.
In C), as in B), there is no extended KCI protection, so there is no foul, and the result is the same as B): B, 1/10, B-33, GC=snap, PC=25.

In the second question, there are also two different results for the three scenarios presented.
In A), the previous spot is inside the B-17, and the spot of the foul is beyond the B-2 yard line, so the penalty will be enforced from the previous spot - laterally between the hash marks as well as the yard line, to the 2 yard line, with a first down for A.  The next down will be A, 1/G, B-2 (left hash), GC=snap, PC=25.
In B), the previous spot is inside the B-17, and the spot of the foul is outside the B-2 yard line, so the penalty is a first down at the spot of the foul, both yard line and laterally between the hash marks.  So, the next down will be A, 1/G, B-4 (right hash), GC=snap, PC=25.
In C), as in A), the previous spot is inside the B-17, and the spot of the foul is beyond the B-2 yard line, so the penalty will be enforced from the previous spot - laterally between the hash marks as well as the yard line, to the 2 yard line, with a first down for A.  The next down will be A, 1/G, B-2 (left hash), GC=snap, PC=25.

I have always used the expression, "It's 2:15," to remember the yard line enforcement for DPI.  "It's" sorta sounds like "S", for 'spot of the foul;' "2" represents the B-2; and "15" represents the maximum distance penalty for DPI.  In other words, the penalty will be enforced at the "spot," the "2," or a full 15 yards - whichever comes first.  Others probably have better "reminders," but that has always worked for me.

Robert

Offline Navcom

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2019, 04:58:06 PM »
 thank you sir......

Offline Navcom

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2019, 10:40:15 AM »
Gents, I had some trouble with these. I guess I'm get a bit convoluted with everything.

 A 3/G @B-7. Ball carrier A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the B2 and places the ball over the pylon while crossing the goal line extended and his first contact the ground is out of bounds two yards beyond the goal line.

 A 3/7 @ A-30. A17 throws a forward pass and then B68 takes three steps and charges into A17, showing no attempt to avoid contact. A88 completes the catch and is tackled @A40.

 A 2/6 @ A-44. A11 hands the ball off to A32, A77 holds B92 @ A-45, A32 is tackled at the
(a)   A46.
(b)   A43.

Offline Magician

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2019, 11:39:17 AM »
A 3/G @B-7. Ball carrier A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the B2 and places the ball over the pylon while crossing the goal line extended and his first contact the ground is out of bounds two yards beyond the goal line.
This rule has evolved a lot over the years but finally landed on the current version a few years ago. As Rogers explained it, if you want to get a touchdown, you have to get something in the end zone. The only time the goal line is extended is if your body touches something in the end zone including the pylon. It could be the hand touching the pylon as long as the ball has crossed the goal line extended before the hand touches the pylon. In this play, the ball is over the pylon before he touches out of bounds so you have a touchdown.

A 3/7 @ A-30. A17 throws a forward pass and then B68 takes three steps and charges into A17, showing no attempt to avoid contact. A88 completes the catch and is tackled @A40.
A key thing with answering these questions is what rule is the question trying to test. This one is enforcement spot for roughing the passer. The way the question is written it's obvious there is RPS (three steps, charges into, no attempt to avoid). RPS is either previous spot or end of last run enforcement. That can get tricky if there are multiple runs, change of possession or fumble into and out of the end zone. In this case it's just a standard play. A has the choice of previous spot or end or run but will obviously take end of run. A 1/10 at the B45.

A 2/6 @ A-44. A11 hands the ball off to A32, A77 holds B92 @ A-45, A32 is tackled at the
(a)   A46.
(b)   A43.
This is another penalty enforcement spot question. In (a) the run ends beyond the LOS but in (b) it's behind. The basic spot for (a) is end of run but in (b) it's previous spot. Using 3-and-1 enforcement you then look at the location of the foul beyond the NZ in relation to the basic spot. In (a) it's behind the basic spot so this is your enforcement spot: A 2/15 at the A-35. In (b) it's beyond so the basic spot is your enforcement spot: A 2/16 at the A-34. B could decline the penalty in either instance as well.

These questions become much easier the more you UNDERSTAND the rules. That's different than knowing the rules. That takes time. If you are still new you won't understand them fully as well. Keep answering quiz questions like this, review them with experienced officials in your area in addition to these online forums, and most importantly get on the field as much as possible. Many of these rules don't stick to your memory until they happen to you on the field.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2019, 11:47:23 AM »
Gents, I had some trouble with these. I guess I'm get a bit convoluted with everything.

 A 3/G @B-7. Ball carrier A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the B2 and places the ball over the pylon while crossing the goal line extended and his first contact the ground is out of bounds two yards beyond the goal line.

 A 3/7 @ A-30. A17 throws a forward pass and then B68 takes three steps and charges into A17, showing no attempt to avoid contact. A88 completes the catch and is tackled @A40.

 A 2/6 @ A-44. A11 hands the ball off to A32, A77 holds B92 @ A-45, A32 is tackled at the
(a)   A46.
(b)   A43.

NAVCOM,

An airborne BC gets progress to the spot where the ball crosses the sideline.  If the BC is able to get the ball to break the plane of the goal line over or between the goal line pylons, then that will yield a TD.  TD, A, Try, B-3, GC=not running, PC=40-starts with dead ball.
Be sure to study the bulletins with respect to the differences between an airborne BC and a BC on his feet.

On the second question, I believe they are trying to be sure you understand that the penalty for the RTP is added to the end of the last run.  This is clearly RTP, but the description does not rise too the level of targeting.  Either way, the 15-yard penalty would be added to the the dead-ball spot, since that is beyond the NZ (9-1-9-a & b, comment at end of paragraph b), plus a first down for A.  A, 1/10, B-45, GC=RFP, PC=25.

On the third question, they are trying to be sure you understand the penalty enforcement for A fouls during a running play, with respect to the difference between fouls by A beyond the NZ, or behind the NZ.  For a), the end of the run is beyond the NZ, and the spot of the foul is also beyond the NZ, so the Basic Spot is the end of A32's run (A-46).  By the 3 & 1 principle, the penalty is enforced at the spot of the foul, the A-45, to yield A, 2/15, A-35, GC=RFP, PC=25.
For b), the end of the run is behind the NZ, so the Basic Spot is the previous spot, and, by rule, 9-3-3-b-Penalty, the penalty is enforced at the previous spot, to yield A, 2/16, A-34, GC=RFP, PC=25.
99% of the time, Team B will accept the penalty in either case. However, I would not call this choice "obvious;" under some circumstances Team B might want to decline the penalty, to bring up 3rd down.  I'd be sure to get Team B's choice on this one.

Robert

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Keep our minds working...
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2019, 12:00:16 PM »
NAVCOM,

Attached is the bulletin regarding an airborne player to which I referenced.

Robert