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National Federation Discussion / Re: Question about Force after an errant snap.

« Last post by CalhounLJ on Today at 07:17:24 AM »

A good way to determine if a new force has been applied to a grounded ball is answer three questions:

#1. Did the applied impetus change the forward/backward direction of the ball? In other words, did it cause a forward-rolling ball to go backward? Or vise-versa. if it did, it's a new force.

#2. Did the applied impetus cause a stationary ball to start moving again? If it did, it's a new force.

#3. Did the player applying the applied impetus do so intentionally? If so, it's illegal batting/kicking.

In the case of the errant snap, the initial force is the snap, and as long as there was no intentional effort by either team to put the ball in the endzone, they can bat it around all they want, as long as they don't change the initial direction, it's the force of the snap that puts the ball in the endzone. So, safety.

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Non-Officiating Discussion / Re: Morning humor

« Last post by Ralph Damren on Today at 06:14:08 AM »

Big ole' Bubba is a runner at 1st with 2 outs. Lil' Sam is coming to bat. His coach pulls him over and instructs : "Sam, yo know you can't hit Lefty, the pitcher, so just leave you bat here and maybe you'll walk. "

* NFHS don't require a batter to have a bat, he just can't have an illegal one.

WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PITCHES THAT LIL' SAM CAN TAKE BEFORE HE EITHER WALKS (HAPPLY ENDING) OR STRIKES OUT (SAD ENDING).

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 08:11:11 PM »

On Question 1: At the clinic last weekend, Shaw confirmed that the two-minute time-out will not buy a player back into the game; his team still needs to take a time-out.

On Question 3, the play clock is set to 40 per 2023 Bulletin No. 1.

On Question 6, no time-out is granted per 2023 Bulletin No. 1 in 2023, although it also is not charged.

Thanks for reminding me/us about the bulletin. I should note that in my rule book (at least I should have for 2023). Perhaps the rule, itself, will be edited to reflect this for 2024, to state that consecutive requests for a timeout will not be granted. A note like, "Note: Following a timeout requested for a replay challenge that overturns the call, the timeout is not charged to the team, but it counts as a requested timeout for the purposes of rule 3-3-4." Or something like that. 

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by DJW201 on Yesterday at 02:51:13 PM »

On Question 1: At the clinic last weekend, Shaw confirmed that the two-minute time-out will not buy a player back into the game; his team still needs to take a time-out.

On Question 3, the play clock is set to 40 per 2023 Bulletin No. 1.

On Question 6, no time-out is granted per 2023 Bulletin No. 1 in 2023, although it also is not charged.

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by Maineac on Yesterday at 01:24:27 PM »

Thanks for posting. Good to look at your reasoning.

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 01:13:35 PM »

Question 3, wouldn’t B54 have to leave the game for the next down, as his helmet came off not as the direct result of a foul by the opponent (unless Team B takes a timeout)?

Yes. Same issue. I was thinking about the fact that the game clock was stopped for another reason beside the helmet off, but that doesn’t affect his ability to participate in the next down - only that there would be no opportunity for a 10SS if the game clock was under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th period, which is not at all the case, here. I will make that correction, as well.
Thanks.

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by Maineac on Yesterday at 11:49:10 AM »

Question 3, wouldn’t B54 have to leave the game for the next down, as his helmet came off not as the direct result of a foul by the opponent (unless Team B takes a timeout)?

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by Maineac on Yesterday at 10:40:02 AM »

So, in this case, yes, B55 may not participate in the next down, unless Team B ‘buys’ him back into the game with a a charged team time out. Can they do that when the clock is stopped for the 2MTO?

I believe they can, however I am not 💯 on this yet. Still figuring it out until the books come out.

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National Federation Discussion / Re: Question about Force after an errant snap.

« Last post by Ralph Damren on Yesterday at 10:22:37 AM »

At one point, the NFHS Part I exams (in all sports) had become so bad that our state quit using them.  We had supervisors submit 10 questions each, and the director of officials put together the exam.  Post-Covid, we have gone back to using NFHS through Dragonfly, apparently to save a few bucks.

I’m told (and maybe Ralph can verify this) that NFHS uses college students to write the questions.  They are given the rules book, but may or may not know anything about the sport itself.  That would certainly explain some of the weirdness.

I can only speak for my time on the Editorial Committee (2000-2004). We were each (8 of us..4 section reps, ,chair, vice chair , officials' rep and editor) asked to supply 25 questins with an existing bank of 200 prior. From this questionaire would be assembled. They were screened by fellow members of EC. I recall recieving a call from the then editor with the following discussion:

HE: "You're not an educator, are you ?"
ME: "Spect not,  why ?"
HE: "Of your 25 ,21 were false  !"
ME: "I was trying to be tricky  "
HE: " We are not trying to trick people, just trying to test their knowledge.  "

EPILOGUE: After that, I tried to supply 13 true and 12 false questions. I assume the same procedure is still followed. 

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NCAA Discussion / Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2

« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 09:48:07 AM »

Question 1, can B55 participate on the next play? I was under the impression the 2MTO can’t be used for this, that B would need to buy him back in with their own TO.

I believe you are correct. I crossed my rules, I think. I was thinking about there being another reason that the clock stopped - but that only applies to the 1–second subtraction, or starting the clock on the ready under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th periods. So, in this case, yes, B55 may not participate in the next down, unless Team B ‘buys’ him back into the game with a a charged team time out. Can they do that when the clock is stopped for the 2MTO? I honestly don’t know. It would not be consecutive charged team times out, so I don’t know why not, other than that will be at least 3 1/2 minutes worth of game interruption. TV will like the extra time for commercials, but they won’t like the additional real time that it will take. They can’t have their cake and eat it too.
I will change my answer, and wait to see what the big boys say.